Kitchen Aid turbidity sensor

I cleaned dishwasher with half gallon of vinegar and ran a rinse cycle which shut off when completed.

Then I ran a wash cycle. It seemed to run forever again. I opened door and the water looked cloudy from the dishwasher detergent I was using. So I canceled wash cycle and ran another wash cycle without adding dishwasher detergent. It did a complete wash cycle this time in record time and shut off like normal.

I'm thinking either I had a limed up turbidity sensor or the liquid detergent I'm using is my problem. If it screws up next wash cycle, I think it time to get a different detergent.

Thanks to all who gave me advice, especially the advice on googling my problem. That's where I learned about the turbidity sensor. BTW, I had to google the defination of turbidity. I didn't have a clue that a dishwasher had one. I just figured it ran cycles based on time like the old clothes washers.

Very glad I have my Grandpa's German cheap gene and didn't buy a new dishwasher.

Thanks to all for your ideas,
geo

We have an 18 year old Kitchen Aid dishwasher and have had trouble with liquid detergents. We have found that Cascade powdered detergent works best of all and doesn't need the rinse additive that prevents streaking.

Gene Davis

nGo figure; I'd Never heard of a turbidity sensor. Sounds like you might need to put in a water softener.

Went to Wal Mart and picked up what the boss wanted , FINISH tablets. Let you know if problem is solved.

My kids are fans of water softeners, and removing lime makes their city water acidic. Lucky if their water heaters last 8 years before they are totally rusted and anode is gone.

I don't care for softened water.

Future plans is to dump pickle juices in dishwasher and run rinse cycle.

Also going back to using FINISH power detergent powrrball.
George

> Lucky if their water heaters last 8 years before they are totally rusted and anode is gone.

Replacing a water heater once a decade isn't a huge price to pay, considering the increase in life of your appliances and other plumbing components. Faucets in particular last much longer with soft water.

Having a hard time understanding how a softener would create acidic water, unless the water is already acidic, and the removal of the lime prevents the neutralizing of the acids. I used to work with someone that thought that the salt would actually add salt to the potable water, but in reality it is only used during the regeneration process, and is flushed to the drain during the process. But she was convinced that the salt would contaminate the water, and cause issues. I had a horrible lime problem where I used to live (city water at the time), and finally put in a softener, and have owned one ever since, and aside from some added expense for the salt, and some routine maintenance, I will never do without one. Unbelievable difference in quality of the water, and eliminated issues with fixtures. Only regret is buying one of the "cheap" softeners from a box store, and when this one fails, I will probably spend the bucks for a good quality softener next time. I do have to run a cleaning solution from time to time (I just use Iron Out) during the regeneration process according to directions on the container.

Respectively don't agree. My water heaters last almost 3 times longer. I dont have expense, salt and softener. I hate taking a shower in soft water. I don't have issues with faucets.

I removed softner in another place 30 years ago.

I hate them. First time I've ever had a problem, which may be related to detergent.

Other washer is almost 25 years old. No softener.
George

> Having a hard time understanding how a softener would create acidic water

Well, it doesn't. But it does create a situation where the water heater anode erodes very quickly. And of course once the anode is gone, the heater will soon fail. The solution is to regularly replace anodes (which reminds me I need to do to our heater).

Water treatment is not an option at our place. Between hard water, iron and (g-gulp!) arsenic, a softener and RO unit are mandatory.

City water has chlorine, sometimes florine and other cheminals in it, like lead. Chlorine and Florine are oxidzers, corrosive. Tumms, calcium, which is same as lime reduces acid. So I leave can't see a good reason to remove it even though I'm on a well and have no chlorine or florine or added chemicals.
Well man told me once, who that is just a small leak, lime will fix that.

I bought a place in 1977 and a year later removed my softner. Have yet to have my brass delta faucets give me a problem. Kitchen aid Dishwasher in that house was installed in 1992 right after I raised the concrete floor the old one car attached garage into 14x28 foot kitchen. I do rinse the dishwasher with vinegar occasionally.

The other house I installed another Kitchen aid 10 years ago. I gave it a lime flush and chanced dishwasher detergent. Just completed a load of dishes and worked like it was new.

The purpose of my post is not to argue the benefits of a softner. It's to alert everyone there is a turbidity that determines when to empty and refill the machine. My problem was the machine kept running, it would drain and refill. One night at 2 in the morning it was still cycling and not shutting off.

geo.

If I had arsenic or lead in my water, I would move.

Soft water is not something I like, reguardless if it does or doesn't change the PH. I can't help to think that some free chlorine atoms will bond with free hydrogen atoms, forming HCl, an acid. The same acid will remove lime.

Next time I see a friend who is a chemical engineer that graduated from Rose Hulman, the number one private engineering school in the nation, I'll ask him the acid question.

Are you a chemical engineer?

The chemicals cities put in their water is definately corrosive and I'm glad I live where my well water, which is tested by Indiana department of enviromental management. Tests should good. They test my well to make sure farmers are following the rules.

I can say IDEM does some good things, even though some here cry about Big Brother.

geo

Yes.. the sensor controls how long it rinses... when the water is clean, it goes into the final dry cycle... our kitchen aid had a problem and we had to de lime it once every 10 years or so... I did not remember it being call the turbidity sensor... Bill

If you have an RO softner, it might remove Chlorine.

A salt softner won't. Here is what wikepedia had to say:

Biochemistry[edit]
As a halogen, chlorine is a highly efficient disinfectant, and is added to public water supplies to kill disease-causing pathogens, such as bacteria, viruses, and protozoans, that commonly grow in water supply reservoirs, on the walls of water mains and in storage tanks.[13] The microscopic agents of many diseases such as cholera, typhoid fever, and dysentery killed countless people annually before disinfection methods were employed routinely.[13]

Chlorine is manufactured from salt by electrolysis or other methods. It is a gas at atmospheric pressures but liquefies under pressure. The liquefied gas is transported and used as such.

As a strong oxidizing agent, chlorine kills via the oxidation of organic molecules.[13] Chlorine and hydrolysis product hypochlorous acid are neutrally charged and therefore easily penetrate the negatively charged surface of pathogens. It is able to disintegrate the lipids that compose the cell wall and react with intracellular enzymes and proteins, making them nonfunctional. Microorganisms then either die or are no longer able to multiply.[14]

Principles[edit]
When dissolved in water, chlorine converts to an equilibrium mixture of chlorine, hypochlorous acid (HOCl), and hydrochloric acid (HCl):

Cl2 + H2O ⇌ HOCl + HCl
In acidic solution, the major species are Cl
2 and HOCl, whereas in alkaline solution, effectively only ClO− (hypochlorite ion) is present. Very small concentrations of ClO2−, ClO3−, ClO4− are also found.[15]

Bill
I checked eBay. Whirlpool sensor is only $8, FREE shipping. I saw on U tube how easy It is to replace. I ordered one in case problem returms.
George

> If I had arsenic or lead in my water, I would move.

Well if that were the case, most of the folks in Oakland County, MI who are on well water would have to move to Indiana, and I think you'd find we make annoying neighbors. Actually, most of the wells were under Federal arsenic guidelines until fifteen years ago when the federal limit was reduced from 50 ppb to 10 ppb. We drink water that's gone through reverse osmosis and don't worry too much about it. A nearby township had to close a well they had used for decades when the rules changed.

Ever had YOUR water tested for arsenic? The fair state of Indiana is far from arsenic-free, as <a href="http://water.usgs.gov/nawqa/trace/pubs/geo_v46n11/fig2.html">this map</a> shows.

> Are you a chemical engineer?

Nope, so I don't claim to understand the mechanism by which softened water accelerates water heater corrosion. I know we don't have chlorinated water so our softener certainly isn't creating hydrochloric acid. We used to have a kitchen tap that had hard water on the cold side and hot water on the soft. (I guess that was common at one time.) The wear on the cold side of the faucet was definitely worse than on the hot.

My doctor said water softeners DO add salt to the water and since I was having blood pressure problems to not have a softener. My last water heater, from 1965, lasted 35 years and never replaced the anodes. I did get the burner submerged during a flood but I was able to get that cleaned out and working again-not the heater's fault. You will like 'Finish' tablets; that's what we use now after using Cascade liquid for years.

> My doctor said water softeners DO add salt to the water and since I was having blood pressure problems to not have a softener.

Technically, water softeners add sodium ions, not "salt". Sodium replaces calcium and/or magnesium in the water. Reverse osmosis removes sodium ions; if you're worried about sodium in softened water you should add an RO unit for drinking water.

Your Grandchidren will be amazed that you are Googling, You Tubing, Wikipediaing, . Whats' next Pandoraing?

I install a lot of dish washers and I hate the Kitchenaid more than any other brand. They are difficult to install and don't seem to last very long.

Had a similar problem a few years back. Was compounded by some noise that seemed to develop along with the buildup and etching that was appearing on glasses. Talked with a repair guy and he said to dump a cup of salad oil in with no detergent and run a wash cycle. At risk of divorce I followed the device and not only solved the problem of the etching and buildup but the unit went back to quiet as new. His idea was that obsessive people who rinse their dishes need less detergent than people who just toss them in and let them sit, but the detergents are designed for the worst case....