Final construction on firewood hauler hoist system

Adirondack case guy

Well-known Member
Went down to my local TISCO farm supply store. They are celibrating their 50th year in business.Anyway, I needed some roller chann to add onto the #50 chain that I had in my stash or upgrade to #60 roller chain which would raise the tensil strength from 4880lbs. to 7030lbs. the price difference was about $20 bucks . Bought a 10'roll of #60 chain for $31 bucks. They offered me the option of USA made chain, which I would have gadly paid the $63 dollar price if it was going to be used on a combine or haybine, BUT this chain will never see much flexing action.
My original design was based aroung a cable system, But after some thought, I rejected cable inlue of roller chain.
Reason being, cable streaches and also trys to twist as tension is applied to it. I was afraid that this twisting effect would turn the toggle assy. on top of the cylinder and missaline it.The roller chain has a stableizing effect, and not near as prone to streching.
I fabed up the sheet metal cover to serve two purposes. (1) protect the top of the cylinder and chain from the elements, and also to align the cylinder.
The Cover will also be painted Case desert sunset and will be a point of focus for the CASE grafics that I will apply during the finishing steps.
Loren
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If you had enough chain left over, why not run a second chain, with two sprockets?
 
Your ambition puts me to shame.
If I recall correctly, you are looking for 6' of lift with a 3' cylinder. I can see how that happens with your idler system. But I can't see how it happens without mounting the cylinder higher, and using more chain. I'll just have to wait and see the finished product.
 
Why would I need to double the 7030# rateing.
If I put 8500# of wood on the trailer, the chain will only have to lift 1/2 the load at the initial start. The rear hinges will be supporting the rest of the weight and as the body raises the weight will further shift to the rear of the body.
Loren
 
Bob,
I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how a 3 ft cylinder will give more than 3 ft lift.

I'll just have to wait on the edge of the chair in front of computer to it see it happen.
geo
 
Bob, when the cylinder is fully extended the chuck on the bottom end of the chain at the base of the body will be up to the toggle assy., thus 6' off the toung. there is a bit of slack in the chain at the moment. I may have to remove a link after I extend the cylinder to full stroke and see where the body stops in relation to the toggle assy.The cylinder stroke is 3'. When the rod is extended the toggle will be 6ft up. Your idea of mounting the cylinder higher doesn't extend the 3' stroke and bring the base of the body any higher, when cylinder is extended.
Loren
 
That's how fork lifts lift so high, they use a 3 stage cylinder and then chains too, that way they can have a retracted height of 6-6 to get through a doorway, but lift almost 16 feet.
 
(quoted from post at 20:22:02 12/08/16) Your ambition puts me to shame.
If I recall correctly, you are looking for 6' of lift with a 3' cylinder. I can see how that happens with your idler system. But I can't see how it happens without mounting the cylinder higher, and using more chain. I'll just have to wait and see the finished product.
Seems logical (and pretty cool): Lift the chain sprocket 3' using the cylinder and since the other end is fixed to the cylinder body, it will effectively shorten the chain on the dump bed side the same amount or 3' so the bottom of the bed will now be 6' above the cylinder base instead of 0'. That is.... if I followed the mechanics correctly. It also means the bed will move twice as fast as the cylinder. I imagine he's mocked this up or done it before. :wink:
 
George, How tall is a 3' stroke cylinder when it is fully extended.???? One end of chain is ancored to barrel of cylinder, and is threaded over the roller toggle on the piston rod. As the rod extends 1 ft. up, the chain raises the body 2ft. As I said in earlier post simple geometry. A "compound lift system". If the cylinder rod was pined directly to the body, it would only lift the body 3ft. Sooner or later your bulb will light. HeHe.
Loren
 
Loren,
I scratched long enough I finally get it. It will lift 6 ft. Very ingenious idea. I never would have thunk that one on my own.

If you put the fulcrum to the dump bed back 6 ft from the cylinder, then the bed will make the desired 45 degrees most dump trailers make. The trailer could be used for dumping anything like dirt, wood chips, horse poo, even wood.

Won't have to sit in the edge of my chair waiting for a pic.
Geo
 
With the block at the top; (your sprockets) your chain will only see half of the lifting weight.
Half of the weight will be held between the sprocket and the dead end and half of the weight will be held between the sprocket and the end that is lifting.

So your 7030 chain is good to 14060 lbs plus what the rear hinges are holding.
You will blow out the tires before you break that chain.
Since you have 2 sprockets the only thing that will see the total weight is the cylinder.

That is how a cheap $10 come a long can lift 4000 lbs.
The cable only sees half the weight because of the block on the end.
 
Looks like a good system. Is the hoist going to slide on the bed or is the chain roller out enough to act as support? I couldn't it see well enough on the picture.
 
but doesn't the whole weight of the box transfer through the length of chain closest to the box itself? The hydraulic cylindar will only see half the overall weight (at the front). the chain itself bears the entire weight of the front of the box because its lifting it. [the back of the box bears on the hinges]

the geometry makes sense. I'm with Geo. Didnt quite understand forklifts unit I saw and pondered Loren's woodhauler. its a good design
 
you are correct that the chain will bear the full weight of the lift (will feel a bit more while being set into motion). However, the ram will feel twice the lift weight but only while it is moving. Plus the bed will raise at twice the speed it would if the ram was connected directly to the box.
 
I too had trouble seeing the six foot lift until these pics. What keeps the top of the cylinder from moving around? Is the weight applied to the chain support it or is it just the bottom anchor point of the cylinder on the tongue? What keeps the toggle pulley block from rubbing the bed when lowered and bouncing in the woods? Sorry for the multiple questions just trying to learn. Thanks
 
I just noticed why you hadn't put tires on that trailer! I though you might be leaning Amish or something, lol I have door height issues at my shop also.
My sons and I burn close to 20 cord each year between all of us and I had intention to build a similar trailer but found a Pronovost 3 way dump trailer cheap enough that I went that route. I like the engineering on your hoist and as always nice fab work. We had a portable wagon hoist on the farm that worked similarly
 
No George, moveing the hinge point 4ft. forward from the back would be a disaster. First off the axle would have to come ahead another foot and carry even more weight which the tractor is now carring. Second, the tail of the body would dig into the ground and lift the trailer wheels off the ground when the cylinder reaches full extension. It is fine the way it is and the split wood will slid to the rear just fine, where I can pick it off the tailgate without bending to the ground to pick up and stack the chunks. The tailgate can be chained level when dumped and is thigh high to me. No bending over and back fatigue.
You will have to find some "slipshit" like Phill and I use that makes the wood slide rite off. HeHe.
Loren
PS- my e-mail is open give me a shout there with your phone #, and a time when you are not busy working. I chat with several YTrs several times each week.
 
That build is Sweet!!

Should work just fine.
The chain/idler system is the key.

Nice Job!

Tom
 
My understanding, the axle of a 12 ft trailer should be located 7 ft back. A 10 ft trailer axles should be 5 ft 10 inches back. A 8 ft would be 4 ft 8 inces.

So location of axle and fulcrum can always be moved.

I'm not that ambitious to build a dump trailer, instead I went to Elkhart, In and picked up a factory made 10K dump with twin cylinders. I use it so much I'll be replacing the rubber after 5 years. I pull mine on highways and interstate and want something safer than I can make.
So far no problems, Works flawless.
Geo.
 
To tell you the truth, I haven't decided on tire size yet. I will be buying new wider rims. I have 16", 17" and 20" tires here. I'm leaning towards the 17s. The 8.25x20 truck tires would carry the load the best, but the trailer becomes quite tall and I might have to lengthen the loading elevator that I built.
Loren
 
Been following your build for a while and I think you have done a real fine job. Bet you can hardly wait to go out and use it. Don't forget to put on a set of tires.
 
This lifting setup will work fine for many cycles. I watched a system like this work probably thousands of times when we had the chain lift Caswell loader years ago. It had one vertical cylinder on the front of the tractor that lifted the loader with chains. The loader raised twice as fast as the cylinder and raised up twice as far.

I never thought about the twisting action of a cable.
 
The toggle bearing assy on the top of the cylinder will indeed ride on the front of the body. It has to follow the arc when lifting. When body is down, the cover that I built locks the top of the cylinder in place.
Loren
 
(quoted from post at 06:50:40 12/09/16) To tell you the truth, I haven't decided on tire size yet. I will be buying new wider rims. I have 16", 17" and 20" tires here. I'm leaning towards the 17s. The 8.25x20 truck tires would carry the load the best, but the trailer becomes quite tall and I might have to lengthen the loading elevator that I built.
Loren

Have you thought about aircraft tires? Heavy duty but not quite as tall. Also very thick rubber to help prevent punctures.
 
Loren,I like the boxed in plate toggle assy with the bearings much better than the open bearing setup you first had on the cylinder before.It looks 100% better to.
 
Looking great! did you get the idea from a BearCat hoist. Had one on a JD 50 3point, it used cable and was used with shop built wagon beds that dumped and gear stayed on ground, worked great!
 
Rubhuntn,We got involved with them as a farm machinery deal back in the 80s. Very very bad taste in my mouth yet about them. I have all kinds of discards off trucks 16", 17" and 20", for free that will work, Just need to decide on size.
Loren
 
No, I talk with Jon F a lot and he sent me pics of a Minisota flare box lift. Modified that design and went from there with roller chain rather than cable.
Loren
 

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