Propane in the New shop!

Joe Pro

Member
It seems that getting natural gas into my new shop is going to be an expensive disaster...
We do not have natural gas here at home and I'm getting the run around from the local gas companies about "hooking up".

I have decided that I want to run propane into the shop?

I have a 16x25x8 area partitioned from the shop that will have a propane wall heater and I'll have a heater hanging from the ceiling.. Any suggestions on how to plumb the shop for the propane? Can I install an quick coupler near the overhead doors so I can hook up my BBQ grill?
 
Yes you can hook up your BBq grill that way slowes even sells a kit for it. you are going to have to run black pipe for the gas but that should be easy enough. You are going to have to remember no gas in the shop. Had a guy when I was a kid fuel his snomobile in the garage with the heater in the back lit blew up his garage with the door open.
 
I run my propane grill off the house propane AFTER the regulator.

Make sure and keep the flames up above 18", I think, combustible gasses tend to settle.
 
Yes do not use copper tube. After several years you get little black flecks that plug up the unitrol valves and orifices. Black pipe and no gal inize neather.
 
I have had propane in house since 1980 and line from tank to house is copper and inside house its black iron and never had any problems. New stoves have flexible stainless steel lines instead of flexible copper lines.
 
(quoted from post at 18:56:50 10/11/16) I have had propane in house since 1980 and line from tank to house is copper and inside house its black iron and never had any problems. New stoves have flexible stainless steel lines instead of flexible copper lines.
opper is problem with the "other" compounds in natural gas, that are not in propane. I have experience of the natural gas/copper problem.......it takes a lifetime, but is real.
 
I have a LP Furnace in my shop since 1993, stays on all winter, 24 hours a day, mounted about 6 feet above the floor. Plumbed with copper pipe for use with lp gas. If I using something flammable, I shut the furnace off, has electronic ignition, no pilot-light. I open both doors for awhile, then start the furnace again.
 
That is why they are stainless. I work in one of the casinos and the building is from 1993. When working on the big rotary ovens you find glittery sparkles in the pipes and control valves from galvinized pipe. Many of the manufacturers set up packets now say black pipe or stainless only. Also gas code ready plastic. You want to see something really crazy, wait till you see where a line inside of a Pizza oven actually closes off cause it has built up a wall of carbon inside the pipe to the burners. Beautiful sparkley black crystals that look like diamonds.
 
Copper is approved in several if not all states.

I am a black iron or plastic guy, but they must have reasons to allow it.
 
If done right it shouldn't be an issue. Sediment traps are required by code to help protect the control valves. The problem is a lot of people either don't know or don't care to follow the codes.
 
From what I can find there is no set code. It is different for different parts of the country and can be different in same area depending if you live in town or out in the county.
 
I had propane in my shop because I built my house. Installed natural gas in the house. About 4 years ago I had the natural gas run to the shop. I had to put in a separate meter but they tapped the line from the road to the house to run the shop service. I have to pay a monthly bill whether I use it or not, Summer bill is about $8 per month. Still cheaper than propane. what problems are the utility company giving you?
 

Joe, it sounds like you have done your shop almost exactly like my shop is. I have a tee where the line comes into the building, to supply my salamander for really cold times to heat the outer part. The "inner" room is heated with a catalytic non-vented propane unit. The tubing is copper with a "drop" trap just before the heater. I guess I will have to remove the trap and see if it has caught anything before I start it for the season. It has been installed for eleven years.
 
Like a few others have stated, use Black Iron pipe for all your piping, it is approved for Propane or Natural Gas Use. Copper is not approved for use with Natural Gas, if you ever get the opportunity to switch to Natural Gas and have Copper piping, you will have to redo it all, if you have Black Iron, it is as simple as purge and go with Natural Gas. As for a quick connect for your grill, no problem there either, i would highly recommend a good quality shut off valve before the quick connect just to make sure you never have the quick connect freeze open and have no way to shut it off quick, don't ask how I know that one.... LOL. Since said incident, I install good quality shut off valves at every appliance i install, not required by code, but just makes good sense.
 
Don't give up on natural gas so easily. LP(propane) at the moment is reasonably priced but it never stays that way. Three years ago it cost me $1400 for a 400 gal. fill. If I had natural gas the bill would probably have been below $200. Don't know the exact figures.
 
Make sure you use a VENTED heater as burning LP or Gas will make moisture in the shop if not vented.
 
Guys, all very good information!

First, I didn't think you could use black iron pipe for LP gas??

I want to run the propane into my shop as "correctly" as possible, which means somewhere I need a basic set of guidelines to follow, such as the traps that were mentioned.

Natural gas is about 300 feet away, and I've yet to contact a company that could get me "hooked up" with it.
 
Joe -- used to be black pipe only inside the building, copper leading up to the second stage regulator on the outside of the building. Make sure the pipe you use is big enough to supply the heater. We always used a minimum of 3/4", if you have a very long run you may need to go bigger.
 
(quoted from post at 06:05:06 10/12/16) Make sure you use a VENTED heater as burning LP or Gas will make moisture in the shop if not vented.

Mike, depends on where you are. In the cold areas of the country that moisture from burning propane makes you healthier, and can save you from running a humidifier.
 
I use black iron.

Where are you guys getting the fact that copper is not approved?

It is in most state codes.
 

I was about 225/250 ft away from NG I had agreed to the cost but never could get them to run the line. I contacted them and agreed to dig the line from the meter on my house to my shop. When i had the ditch dug they came right out and hooked me up I had around $1000 into it including there material cost, material was all they charged me for no labor.. I had priced the material my cost was in the $750 range.

Later on that summer they dug up the hole world around me and replaced all the lines in the neighborhood including ruining new lines to my house. It was worth it to me to get off the bottle.
 
(quoted from post at 10:23:31 10/12/16) I use black iron.

Where are you guys getting the fact that copper is not approved?

It is in most state codes.
ot approved for what?? Copper here in north Texas, copper outside building is the norm for propane. Copper inside gets red tag from building inspector with natural gas. Inspector will OK galvanized iron as long as it does not pass through masonry materials. As several have said, it all depends on where you are located in this world. Have read of extensive use of copper in UK, both inside & outside of buildings.
Extreme": somewhere, hollow bamboo tubes!
When replacing a copper line from wall to appliance in a 1927 home, I found that the only thing keeping the natural gas in the pipe was many coats of paint! That is still a pretty good statement for copper.....90 years.
 
(quoted from post at 08:36:48 10/12/16) Well he did say for in shop. So in that application your tools will rust quicker.

Normal household comfortable humidity is around 45-55% not much will rust at that level. Even with propane heat going it is tough to get over 35% when it is cold out so you run a humidifier all winter. Nothing is going to rust with humidity that low. Moisture gets sucked out doors too quick.
 
Even in KY which is 20yrs behind times, you can't use copper anywhere inside a bldg. Black pipe or stainless only. Too many people remodel or hang something and run a nail or screw into the pipe.
 
We use copper outside because iron pipes in the ground here will corrode fairly quickly. I use a two stage regulator setup and iron pipe into the house. I have seen soft copper tubing develope the black flakes. I have also taken apart copper line that was in service for decades and found zero black flakes. Perhaps there's an alloy issue.

Fwiw I have a number of Farmalls that came with propane from the factory and they were all plumbed with copper line.

NG can have sulphur compounds in it and propane does not.
 
(quoted from post at 15:23:31 10/12/16) I use black iron.

Where are you guys getting the fact that copper is not approved?

It is in most state codes.

Natural Gas Utilities will refuse to hook up new customers that have copper supply lines in their home or any structure. Regardless of state code, they will not hook it up as they do not approve of copper being used for Natural Gas. LP on the other hand will allow it. Which is the only reason I always run Black Iron so if the opportunity arises to get Nat Gas in the future I do not have to re-pipe
 
What is it about that galvanized pipe that it is not allowed for LP but is allowed for Nat. gas ? Maybe 50 years it was not allowed for Nat. gas.

Dusty
 
Not sure that galvanized pipe is approved for Nat Gas, Black Iron is, and I believe is for both Propane or Nat Gas.
Just cant use copper for Natural Gas.
 
It would be nice to know where you guys live that say copper can't be used with natural gas. Here in Minnesota it is very common to use copper in commercial buildings. The caveat is that the joints must be brazed, not soldered as in water piping.
 
"Scott 730"](quoted from post at 06:03:48 10/16/16) It would be nice to know where you guys live that say copper can't be used with natural gas. Here in Minnesota it is very common to use copper in commercial buildings. The caveat is that the joints must be brazed, not soldered as in water piping.[/quote]

Had a no-heat service call once.
Natural gas, piped with soft copper, the pipe had not unrolled so it was flat but had sages in it. The sags had filled with a blue-black oxidation dust, and caused lack of gas flow.
The fix to get the furnace working at 2:00 AM on a cold winter night, was to blow out the line with compressed air.

Dusty
 
(quoted from post at 11:11:09 10/16/16) "Scott 730"](quoted from post at 06:03:48 10/16/16) It would be nice to know where you guys live that say copper can't be used with natural gas. Here in Minnesota it is very common to use copper in commercial buildings. The caveat is that the joints must be brazed, not soldered as in water piping.

Had a no-heat service call once.
Natural gas, piped with soft copper, the pipe had not unrolled so it was flat but had sages in it. The sags had filled with a blue-black oxidation dust, and caused lack of gas flow.
The fix to get the furnace working at 2:00 AM on a cold winter night, was to blow out the line with compressed air.

Dusty[/quote]

Never seen soft copper used here. Always rigid pipe with brazed joints.
 

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