Tub grab bar installation

Stan in Oly, WA

Well-known Member
I'm planning to install bath tub grab bars prior to my hip replacement surgery, but also because my wife and I are getting to the point where they would sometimes be welcome anyway. If I install a horizontal grab bar, and one end can't fall on a stud, will it be sufficiently strong for me to screw one end into a stud, but use toggle bolts for the other end? That would mean toggle bolts through 1/2" drywall which is covered by glued on plastic/vinyl tub surround material. I would expect this to help the drywall resist letting toggle bolts be pulled out, but maybe not enough? If that's a bad plan, I'll find a better way to do it.

Thanks, Stan
 
i put one in for the mil. they hit the studs. i would be afraid if the bar pulled out, you could fall in the tub. i used a stud finder and plumb bob to locate the studs.
 
I've seen them installed at an angle. Not sure why, but you could make the ends land on studs that way.

Dusty
 
Check online and at the box stores. One end of the long horizontal bar did not have a stud to screw to, so I bought a special bracket at Lowes. I had to drill a good size hole through the imitation marble, but that bracket made a solid and safe way to attach the bar. I'm a big guy and have no worries about the bar not supporting me.

I actually sat in the tub to determine where the horizontal bar should go. After I had the horizontal bar installed, I wanted another bar to grab onto. All the experts said to install the lower (18") bar on a 45 degree angle. I held the short bar up and decided that wouldn't work for me at all, so I installed that bar vertical below the long (48") horizontal bar. That works just right for me.
 
One other option (if your wall isn't an outside wall) would be to cut an opening on the other side of the wall and add wood for support where needed then patch and paint. You can do this on an outside wall as well just harder to do.
 
Here is a pic of the grab bars that I installed. Have a tube of caulk on hand, especially for the special bracket you put in a wall cavity. I used the special bracket on the left end of the horizontal bar; it is rock solid.
a239092.jpg
 
The longer bar at an angle so it hits two studs is a good one. I would not trust a grab bar that was not screwed to something very solid at both ends.
One of my grab bars is screwed to 5/8" T-111 paneling on one end and thru that into a stud on the other. It holds OK but you can tell which end is in a stud.
Not something you want to find out was not secure esp right after your hip surgery!
 
Correction: The horizontal bar is 36" long, not 48". I installed those bars 5 years ago just after we moved into the house so I forgot the measurements.

You can get the special brackets also from Amazon, but I would avoid the cheap ones.
 
Look on Amazon for Grab Bar Anchors by CSI Donner. It looks the same as the one that I used; it is priced on Amazon at $28.26. I wasn't sure when I bought it that it was as solid as it turned out to be. I weigh 225 and I can't get it to wiggle at all. I think the one that I used had the Moen name on it (but that was 5 years ago, so I don't remember).
 
1/4-20 toggles on one end screwed to wood the other. You would feel the bar get loose way before it will pop off and hurt you. Maybe I would break out some stainless wood screws.
 
The bar won't hold in sheetrock. You might look around, I've seen them the mounting points were on 32" centers where you can grab both studs. You would also have the option of mounting a longer bar on an angle to reach the studs.
 
Stan, check out the Moen.com web site. They have a patented "toggle bolt" affair. Will permit you to install a horizontal bar any where. Putting two in my older sister's place right now.
Jim B
 

Bars at an angle are a good idea Stan , they allow a range of grab heights depending on the position or infirmity of the user .
If the studs are placed at 18 inches then a 24 inch bar will find both accurately when angled moderately.
 
John, they installed 1 for my 90 year old mom with anchor bolts. 1st time she used it-- it pulled out. Whatever you do, find a stud or look into 1 of these systems the guy are telling you about. By the way mom weighs all of 95 lbs.
 
You've got a good memory. That product is made by Moen, and it's called SecureMount. My wife found it online after we got back from looking at grab bars at Lowes and Home Depot. My guess is that using it means that you have to use a Moen grab bar, but we had pretty much settled on that, anyway. Thanks for the information.

Stan
 
Thanks Dusty. You were the first to suggest that, and it's clearly a popular idea here. It didn't occur to me, I'm not proud to say.

Stan
 
I find it odd that grab bars are sold in sizes which don't divide by 16, but maybe 16" centers are not standard framing for interior walls any more. My wife suggested that we tear out the tub walls and install a good quality tub surround in place of the cheap one that's been there since we bought the house 18 years ago. If we did that, I could beef up the framing exactly where it needs it, and as much as I want. That's not a bad idea except that I've never seen a plumbing project in an old house that didn't quickly become a larger plumbing project. The timing is not ideal for that.

Stan
 
That would work, except that that wall has a pocket door in it, complicating things. I'd probably be better off opening the walls on the tub side and installing a new tub surround, as my wife suggested. See my reply to glennster below for why I resist that approach. I've installed tubs and large tub surrounds through exterior walls, but I've got to admit, I wouldn't mind never having to do it again.

Stan
 
I agree, and actually, the Moen SecureMount bracket that Dick2 described below is nothing more than a huge (like 6") toggle bolt. I'm torn between doing it that way or installing a longer grab bar at an angle to catch two studs. I'd suggest making some temporary grab bars out of pipe to get through the post surgery period, but my wife would never go for it. To be fair, I've pretty much ruined the concept of temporary in this household.

Stan
 
It's probably going to have to be the angle approach. Grab bars that are available and affordable seem to come mostly in lengths that don't divide by 16". One supplier we found online had items that fit our needs better, and at good prices, but advertised that they shipped in four to five weeks. It's always something.

Stan
 
Found it. Thanks. Home Depot sells them, too. It's that or putting in a longer bar at an angle. We haven't decided yet.

Stan
 
Charles, was that a typo, or do you use 18" on center spacing for framing there? 16" O.C. was the standard for many decades here, but I can't honestly say what the standard for new construction is anymore. I've noticed that sheet goods are still sold in sizes divisible by either 16" or 24", so framing probably hasn't changed to odd number sizes, or metric.

Stan
 
I'll follow your advice, but just our of curiosity, was the grab bar your mother pulled out attached with anchor bolts or toggle bolts? I wouldn't expect anchor bolts to resist a pull of more than a few pounds in anything except concrete. Toggle bolts would probably fare better, but as you point out, there are better options.

Stan
 

18 inch for load bearing and understorey walls , 24 inch for internals . Probably the result of not having to allow for snow loading on roofs .
 
Interesting. It never occurred to me. Does that mean that sheet goods for sheathing roofs and exterior walls, like plywood and OSB, and sheet siding like T-111, are sized in 18" increments? So, instead of 48" x 96" which is standard for those products here (although other sizes exist), a sheet of plywood in Australia would normally be 54" x 108" (or 54" x 90")?

Stan
 
I really got ripped into here a few years ago on this topic.
Mentioned I had installed a grab bar for an older couple and screwed one end to a stud and used 1/4" toggle bolts through the tile and cement board on the other.
They called me a hack. Said I was shady and all that stuff.
The grab bar needed to go on the long wall of the tub. I explained that that wall was an outside wall. So I was told I SHOULD have removed the siding and sheathing and installed the proper blocking for the grab bar. The code is the code. No ifs, ands or buts!
I still think about that one.
Was trying to help an old couple on a fixed income stay in their home a while longer and they advocated a $1000 job instead of a $50 job.
Yes you can install them at and angle and catch two studs but it's harder for a weaker person to lift themselves up if it is mounted at an angle.
I think if I were to do it again I would install an L shaped bar. They have 3 attaching points. Put two points into a stud and one with toggles into the tiled wall. Would be plenty strong.
Good luck Stan with your surgery.
I was told recently I will need a new knee soon.
Ahhh, the joys of getting older.
 
As I said, it helps to sit in the tub and hold the bar in place and visualize the angle that your wrist will have to be to grab the bar. I knew I wanted the long bar to be horizontal and level. When I tried the short bar at an angle, I realized the my wrist would be at an impossible angle to lift myself if I was laying down in the tub, which is when I decided the short bar had to be vertical. Fortunately there was a stud in the right place to anchor to.
 
(quoted from post at 21:36:41 10/03/16) Thanks Dusty. You were the first to suggest that, and it's clearly a popular idea here. It didn't occur to me, I'm not proud to say.

Stan

Stan, I had seen them that way and often wondered why ? Then when you asked I realized why.

Dusty
 
McMaster Carr and home depot both have 16" grab bars. I bought a 16" one and screwed it into both studs in the back wall when I was dating a girl who had only one leg, they definitely are a good idea for safety for anyone but definitely make sure they are secure, good screws into solid wood not drywall screws
 
If there is a pocket door then you have access to the "other side" of the wall. You could glue a board on the back side of the wall to give you a screw attachment point and the board will spread the load on the drywall so it would be stronger than toggle bolts.
 
Ultradog, I've gone through a very similar scenario. Those bolts called 'Molly' were my solution. NOT a substitute, as the Mollys weren't the least expensive solution. My Mom needed grab bars installed and yours truly was elected. Having installed Disability fittings for our Veterans I was well aware of their needs. I don't understand why some people look for the cheapest way to care for our Loved Ones OR Our Veterans.
 
I have 2 grab bars in my tub as per the V.A. What I had to do with the long one to get it on studs was mount it at an angle which does work well and the other grab bar was the right length so I could screw it to the studs. The way I did it works real good for pulling ones self up and out of the tub then the other one so you can step out
 
The pocket door is the closet door which slides into the wall between our bedroom and the long wall of the tub. The door is 3/4" plywood, 46" wide (somebody's great idea in 1953). If I could get the door out of the way I would have an opening 1" wide through which to deal with framing more than three feet away. I think my best option at this point is to use the most secure attachment method I can from the tub side, and then next year, after I've recovered from the surgery, tear out the tub walls, beef up the framing, and install the grab bars securely on a new tub surround.

Stan
 
I've had similar situations, although nothing that extreme. It really irritates me for anyone to tell me how to do something as if money is no object. Of course, money IS no object when the other person's money is not the money in question. I particularly resent it when any agency requires me to do something at considerable time and expense to protect me from a situation that has happened maybe three times in the history of the world.

Thanks for the well wishes on my surgery. I hope your knee situation turns out to be minor, or treatable by some other means than surgery. As I understand it, knees are more complex than hips, so the surgery is more complex, too---even if they don't work on knees with a chainsaw and a sledgehammer, or whatever it is they use to do hips.

Stan
 
Here is another option. Close the pocket door then cut a hole in the other wall opposite to where you need the bracing. Attach the extra wood then repair the hole in the wall. With the door closed it should be out of the way for you to do the bracing.
 
Stan, use a longer bar and install it on an angle. Found out that a straight one will only help if using the shower. At an angle you can pull yourself up out of the tub easier. I should know this as for 11 years have had to do this because of only having one leg. Mount in a position that is easy for not only you but your wife also just in case she will need to use it in the future. I think that the ell shaped one would be better choice. Your call.
 
By the way Stan They use cut-off wheels and sawzalls when doing hips. Chainsaws are reserved for knees and hammers and chisels for anything below the knees. Good luck with the surgery and whatever you decid on a grab bar.
 
On angle you can possibly get a direct sollid pull verses a sliding of hand on the bar. The one in my bathroom by the stoll I installed at angle to get the best pull angle. I do not have drywall in bathroom but plywood where you would normally put drywall. Because I could not get a fit on studes I mounted a nice 1x4 on inside of room fastened into studs and the grab bar is solidly fastened into that 1x4. I do have them in other bathroom as well. one where I can reach opposite wauu get ahold of it to pull myself off the stool. And I have had grab bars since installed first bathroom back in about 1970. I have one beside my entrance door to house as well. Helps if step is wet or ice covered.
 
I have a little different problem. My wife has great difficulty stepping over the side of the tub. We haven't taken a tub bath since the 20 year old grand daughter used it. I want to cut a portion of the tub to make a walk in shower. No need for a door to seal for use as a tub. Maybe 4 or 6 inches in height. Have been lookin on line an watched a couple u tube projects. Then it comes down to the insert. You would think you were rebuilding the side of the house for the price they want for an insert. My knees are shot also. Got couple more shots in them just yesterday, but they will have to get a whole lot worse before they cut them out and put in some man made. Probably happen but at 80 seems like a long shot to me. Only eleven more days until pheasant season, got to have good enough legs to do some walking.
 
Mark, which wall do you mean when you say "back wall"? My wife and I have trouble talking about it because when I speak of the back wall, I mean the wall running the length of the tub, but my wife means the wall at the opposite end from the faucet. The reason I ask is because we are having some trouble figuring out where grab bars would be the most useful, so if you had one in a place where it helped, I want to be sure that I understand where it was.

Stan
 

I forgot to add fudge Lowe's and Home Depot they were of no help Unless I was willing to wait 4/5 weeks for a custom order. I found Prodryers on the net after I spent a day and a haft running all over ell and haft of Ireland. I called them on a Sunday it surprised me someone picked the phone up and were wiling to help me ( I think it supersized them also) :lol:

The tile man called me late on a Friday to confirm when he would show up. He said to have it ready and to put supports in the wall I had no idea but had to act fast.
 

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