Samsung's exploding Li batteries

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
More than half my Li batteries just quit. Either the cells short or open and no big bang.

Samsung's exploding Li batteries making the news makes me want to ask, have you had any cordless batteries explode?
 


most batteries can only explode if over charged or shorted. And all lithium batteries are SUPPOSED to have special protection in the charging circuits to prevent over charging as lithium's will have a violent reaction if over charged. Lots of lithiums will shut down with a special circuit.. sometimes prematurely. One manufacturer has a chip that counts the number of charges and shut it down even if the batter is still good. Others use heat and current sensors to shut them down. Most all of them shut down permanently so if anything trips the protection circuits, they are rendered useless. Lithium batteries could not be produced for years due to the dangers until the protection circuits were developed and deemed to be safe, even though they are great and powerful batteries in a small size.
 
Plenty of cautions out there on how to treat them. I have them in lots of things and have special Lithium Ion chargers for each type of battery which are designed specifically for the requirements of the LI battery the charger is designed to charge.

My Ryobi portable tools have a specially designed charger (worm green like the tools) that is to be used for LI which also charges the NI-CAD if you have them too. But the NI-CAD charger is not supposed to be used for LI because it doesn't do cell monitoring like the LI charger and the possibility of a cell being overcharged is present with the wrong charger.

On model airplane/car/boat multi cell batteries, the proper charger will have a separate monitor for each 3.7v cell so that the charger can monitor each cell (in addition to the overall charge) and adjust the charge/discharge per cell to prevent any problems. Proper voltage is with n the range of 3.0v min. which can kill the cell if you go lower (their caution) and 4.2v max. If not going to use within a short period, like you charge up to go out and fly, batteries need to be sitting around 3.7 to 3.9. My little $20 charger for model batteries has a green/amber/red light that signals when the battery reaches that range but will continue to charge at a slower rate on up to the 4.2 and stops.

They caution you not to charge if you are not present....aka check periodically while charging....like feeling the battery to ensure that it's not getting too hot.

Problem is you are dealing with the general public and with that anything can and does happen.....like the guy with the jeep (making a big splash in the media) that was charging his pad on a hot day, on his dash in the hot sun, of all places, sitting in his driveway. Heat (including heat from overcharging) and physical damage are what burns them up and he was definitely not charging his battery correctly!

On model planes, like where you have batteries that would be sitting out in the sun for an extended period, they tell you to put them in an ice chest (no ice) to protect them. Rule is that if you can't hold them comfortably in your hand, you had better quit what you are doing and get them cooled off.

So now, is this problem unique to Samsung? Apparently. Considering how big they are, the quality of their products, and their age, somebody overlooked something along the line. Bet they look closer next time.
 
I googled recall on Li cordless batteries. Seems Ryobi had a recall. Not sure if it's your battery.

http://toolguyd.com/recall-ryobi-18v-4ah-li-ion-battery-packs/

Some dewalt chargers were recalled. I need to check out models of my chargers.

http://www.dewalt.com/support/safety-notices-and-recalls/2016/04/08/14/45/2000-cpsc-dewalt-industrial-tool-co-announce-recall-of-battery-chargers

A recall on Ni-Cd and Ni MH batteries. Guess fires aren't limited to just Li batteries.

http://wemakeitsafer.com/Rayovac-NI-CD-And-Rayovac-NI-MH-Cordless-Tool-Battery-Packs-Recall-392726-216152

I never worried about fires until Samsung made the news. Perhaps we should all do a little more research.
geo.
 
Hello Texasmark1.

Not all lithium based cells are created equal. Some of them have a discharge protective circuit that, not only prevents total discharge, but also results in the cell- pack to read zero volts.The circuit protection voltage disconnects them at 2.7 or 2.8 volts, so they are not dead cells. Also storage voltage is 3.7 V Some of the so called smart chargers will only charge if they see voltage. So the batteries with the protective circuit lets many batteries wind up in the recycle bin. I get plenty good cells that way. By the way there are some lithium-ion
cells that are labeled 3.6V. Those are usually of a higher capacity. The cicuit you talked about cell voltage monitor is called balance charging. There is an individual lead for each cell, and a common ground. Those are the charge limiting-balancing leads. As you know any battery will go BOOM when overcharged. Like you said the proper charger is a must, but it better stop charging when the battery is full, or......

Guido.
 
Thanks on the heads up. I too saw the recall notice and my Ryobi chargers are apparently later models as they weren't included.
 
I don't know what's inside the Ryobi chargers, nor their types of LI-ON. The balanced chargers are on the model planes/cars/boats. Batteries come in 3.7 single, 7.4 double, 11.1 triple, and 14.8 and the chargers have slots of 2,4,5, and 6 pin sockets.......Total voltage, ground, and a monitor lead for each cell except the single which obviously doesn't need a separate cell readout.

The Ryobi is 18.5, called an 18 but the chargers run them up to a little over 19 when finished. Since there are only 2 leads on the Ryobi batteries they can't be balance charged. Must be the type you are referring to with the built in safety "nets". I never tore one apart so I don't know....just read their handling instructions and obey.

Another interesting convolution about the different LI-ON batteries is that the Ryobi says that you can leave the batteries in the charger to keep them peaked up. That's just the opposite of the smaller batteries that say not to leave them stored at max voltage. Another point of confusion. And yet another, why do you need to keep one on the charger when they are noted for their ability to hold their charge over long periods with minimal internal leakage like a lead-acid to name one.
 
(quoted from post at 15:11:40 09/17/16
I never worried about fires until Samsung made the news. Perhaps we should all do a little more research.
geo.
pple Ibooks and Power Books had a LI-ion recall in 2006, Sony Vaio in 2014, and of course the hover board battery problem last year. It's just the talking heads not doing their research.
 
Hello Geo-TH In,

I just got a 12pack out of the recycle bin. 3000 Ma rating NMH, got 3 good ones oUt of the pack.
All batteries will die sooner later...


GUIDO.
 
Way too many engineering screw up for me to buy another Li battery. Even Boeing had fires using them. Scary don't you think? Bright electrical engineers can't seen to get it right. No thank you.
 
Don't you remember a few years back when some cheap aftermarket cell phone batteries were burning up in people's pockets?

It's all about energy density. The more energy you pack into a smaller space, the more violent it will be when all that energy is released at once.

Lithium batteries are dangerous but so is gasoline and you have no problems pumping 25 gallons of the stuff into a flimsy tank underneath your pickup truck, and driving 55MPH down a road with other vehicles coming at you from all directions, then parking it in your barn/garage/next to your house, etc.. Lots of bad engineering there too, over the years, yet you don't think a thing about it...
 

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