elec question

Moving in to new barn built 17yrs ago, opened panel in barn and has 2 feed wires from house going into what I call the outlet side of a 60 amp breaker on side of box ,coming out the top are 2 heavy guage wires that go to a welder plug-2 electricians were discussing if this was ok? I can see the welder plug would be 0n a 60 amp circuit isn't that rather high ? Running a Hobart 180 wire feed

Sounds like they back fed a breaker to use as a main and then used the normally feed lugs for the welder? If the welder wires are a #6 or bigger than that's ok. Not sure if a "main" breaker needs to be bolted in, but I think it does. Also maybe UL listing on the breaker may make a difference. I have done it In the past and have known many other electricians to do it too. Maybe not totally legal today but probably was 17 years ago.

I have one sub panel which is fed through a 125A breaker on the side. An identical breaker feeds it from the main panel. But the sub panel has many breakers, feeding many circuits. When you say "coming out of the top", it sounds like no breaker, just lugs? So the input breaker, which is really an output breaker, is the only protection for the welder plug? Then the question I have is, will an overloaded breaker trip, no matter which direction the current flow is?

I have another sub panel which has no main breaker. I recall the electrician wondering then if that was OK. Seems like he thought you should always have one breaker which would kill the whole box.

Sounds like you have a very old wiring system. It sounds like they did the old 2 wire 220 volts and did not use a ground or neutral. Now days code calls for a 4 wire system where you have 2 hots a neutral and a ground. Another old system used a 3 wire system where there where 2 hots and a ground

So, what are your plans for it?

It will run your welder, but without a ground it could present a shock hazard. I've never seen a 220 circuit ran without a safety ground. That has been code for a long, long time.

If all you are going to do is run the welder, you could add a ground rod, just for your peace of mind. But it still won't be legal in case someone were to get hurt.

How far is the barn from the house panel? Is the power run in conduit? If it is, might consider pulling it out, adding a neutral and ground wire, repull it, set a sub panel with provision for the welder and room for some extra breakers.

Doesn't sound remotely up to code. Tear it all out and do it right. Run 100 amp service from the house to the barn: Use four AWG 2 wires, new 100 amp panel in the barn, separate ground rods at the barn. GFCI 120V outlets, separate breaker for lights and a 50 amp breaker for your welder.

Your wire-feed welder only needs about 25 amps, but since it probably has a 50 amp plug on it you might as well run a fifty amp circuit for it. You might have a bigger welder in the future.

Depends on the wire size. Modern code requirements are not laws in themselves and don't have a lot to do with older installs. If you've got #6 wire or bigger, it can be rated for 65 amps. What size fuse or breaker is in the house that protects the wires running out to the barn?

It sounds to me like Farmers Billy Bob and Bubba wired it up NOT any professional electrician and its NOT safe and NOT to any code even if yearssssssssssss ago (assuming its as you say only 2 wires with NO safety ground or there's no building electrical service ground, I cant say from here based on only limited info so no warranty below).

1) "Two electricians were discussing if it was okay!!!!!!!!!!!! If theres no safety equipment GroundING Conductor no competent professional electrician would ever consider that as okay!!!!

2) As to wire and breaker, as long as the maximum continuous current isn't greater then 80% of the wires ampacity and isnt so great to trip the 60 amp breaker that's NOT your main problem as long as the line voltage drop isnt excessive.

3) As to "grounding" any buildings electrical service is required to be grounded (subject to a few minor exceptions), is that barns service grounded??? Sounds like its NOT


4) NO SAFETY EQUIPMENT GROUND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That means if a hot wire shorted to case/frame it becomes hot live and energized and if you are in contact with it and earth YOU COULD DIE!!!!!!!!!! as theres no safety equipment GroundING conductor to return fault current and trip the breaker

NOTE: To Billy Bob and Bubba or those who say or think DRIVE A GROUND ROD is the answer or makes it perfect safe YOU MAY BE DEAD WRONG!!!!!!!!

If theres no safety Equipment GroundING Conducotr to the case/frame but you connect it to a driven ground rod and a hot shorts to case THE EARTH HAS TOO MUCH RESISTANCE BACK TO THE SOURCE so the breaker does NOT trip (but would if it had a proper safety ground wire) and the case remains hot and energized which can be a hazard!!!!!!!!!!

ARE YOU GETTING THE PICTURE ??????????????????????????????????????????

YES BILLY BOB AND BUBBA it can still "work" to power a welder or load that doesn't exceed the wires ampacity or over current device. Do as you wish or what worked for years, its no skin off my nose........

The proper safe and now NEC compliant method to wire a remote outbuilding for 120/240 volt single phase three wire service fed from your main panel is:

Run out 4 wires, 2 Hots, Neutral, Equipment Ground,,,,,,,,,DO NOT bond Neutral and Ground Busses at panel leave them separate and isolated and insulated from each other,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Provide a Ground for the buildings electrical service.

If you take issue or think the above is unsafe or not necessary take it up with the NEC not me, I don't care how you do it lol but hate to see anyone injured or killed because I didn't at least try to educate them on electrical safety

John T Too long retired electrical engineer and rusty on the NEC so no warranty, wire it per NEC not me and certainly NOT any untrained non professional non electrician or Billy Bobs advice lol

No one asked.. its it 220 or only 120? Does make a difference and the netrual leg should NOT goe through a breaker...

I have seen 3 times were a netrual was run through a breaker or fuse... Not good.. Not safe.

I dont know if a hobart 180 is a muti voltage machine... My miller will run off or 110 or 220... so I needed to ask.

If you can, show us a picture of it. In some cases it is legal to use metal conduit for a ground, not for a neutral though I have seen it done.