Yes, the GFCI will still work as designed with no ground wire. Just needs a hot-leg and a neutral.
 
Yep the GFCI still functions since it ONLY measures the Hot and Neutral current by those two passing through a Torroid coil and if they are the same no voltage is induced (in and out currents cancel each other) so she don't trip. If theres as little as 5 milliamps difference due to some current returned elsewhere (a fault or short or your body) she trips within a cycle or less so your heart don't fibrillate which takes maybe 30 to 50 milliamps.

HOWEVER if the push to test feature works by sending 5 milliamps to the ground with no ground there it may NOT function???

But if Billy Bob or his brother in law who are smarter then NEC and OSHA tell you different, what ya gonna do lol

John T Long retired as an EE and rusty on NEC so as always NO WARRANTY consult the NEC.
 
Not sure what "Billy Bob" has to do with any of this. Either it works, or it does not. I have one right here with no ground and trips when I hit the test function. I don't need "Billy Bob" to tell me what I can see with my own eyes. I have several portable generators that also have GFCI outlets and I have never had them grounded to earth. They work too. Does that mean every design GFCI on the planet will do the same? Hmmm. Guess we need "Billy Bob" to chime in.
 
Mornin JD, as I indicated IFFFFFFFF if the test function works by sending current to ground and there is no ground conductor to carry that current, it may not work HOWEVER if it has other electronic circuitry that fools the GFCI to trip even with NO ground conductor it can indeed work AND WE AGREE WE DONT NEED BILLY BOB TO TELL US THAT LOL

Similar a GFCI on a portable Generator can trip with no ground because all its concerned with (only conductors that pass thru the torroid) is Hot and Neutral return current and if they are the same the currents cancel, no voltage is induced into the torroid coil, and she don't trip WITH OR WITHOUT ANY GROUND.

Also OSHA and the NEC do NOT recommend any earth grounding of the Neutral on portable gensets used to power plug and cord connected tools via onboard receptacles as it can pose an electrocution hazard OUCH that can ruin your day.

You ask "Does that mean every design GFCI on the planet will do the same?" PROBABLY NOT as far as how their test function operates, but PROBABLY SO as far as how they still trip function with or without a ground


Now we can let Billy Bob and his brother in law chime in as you suggest if NEC or OSHA is incorrect and by golly they know better lol lol

Fun chattin with you JDEM, take care now, hope this helps

John T
 
PS JDEM I REALLY REALLY AGREE AND LIKE your statement above " I have several portable generators that also have GFCI outlets and I have never had them grounded to earth"

CONGRATULATIONS YOURE A WISE MAN If they power plug and cord tools connected via onboard receptacles) NOT having them grounded "to earth" can save your life per OSHA and the NEC at least, even if Billy Bob or his brother in law disagree, I think I will risk my life on NEC and OSHA instead of Billy Bobs "brother in law" NOTE earth grounding can indeed be required subject to any transfer switch and how many poles and if Neutral is switched or not or utility connections or separately derived source configurations or Neutral Ground BONDING etc etc etc SO DONT ANYONE HAVE A CALF NOW IF THEY SAW A GENERATOR THAT WAS REQUIRED TO BE EARTH GROUINDED, AS SOME ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!

OSHA GENERATOR GROUNDING

http://www.oshaprofessor.com/Portable%20Generators%20and%20OSHA%20Construction%20Standards%203-05.pdf

Youre a good and safe minded man JDEM, keep up the good work.

John T
OSHA Generator Grounding
 
OK, more on GFCIs..........puzzle me this one. If theses things are so sensitive as to trip out on milliampreres, why do I get this big blinding arc welding flash when I stick a wire in hot blade & touch it to ground wire? Kind of have an idea, but looking for confirmation.
 
When you do that you are creating a direct short. If you stuck a wiggy in the circuit it would be the load and the GFI would trip with no arc. Sticking hot on ground= poof.
 
(quoted from post at 14:13:26 06/17/16) When you do that you are creating a direct short. If you stuck a wiggy in the circuit it would be the load and the GFI would trip with no arc. Sticking hot on ground= poof.
atter of speed of switch, I guess.
 
Yep, if a GFCI trips at 0.005 fault current, she probably will at hundreds of amps (dead short) as well, which is something like one cycle or less if I recall correctly. Id have to see the time current curves to see how much faster or slower a circuit breaker would trip. The 0.005 amp trip is based on part that 0.030 to 0.050 can cause the heart to fibrillate.

AS always, fun sparky chatting with you

John T
 
Of course it's going to arc. Current has to flow first in order for any type of breaker to trip including a GFCI. A tripped breaker is just
telling you that something is wrong with the circuit or appliance.

Many times with electricity Many People try to look too deeply which keeps them from understanding it.
 
(quoted from post at 07:27:47 06/21/16) Of course it's going to arc. Current has to flow first in order for any type of breaker to trip including a GFCI. A tripped breaker is just
telling you that something is wrong with the circuit or appliance.

Many times with electricity Many People try to look too deeply which keeps them from understanding it.
idn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. Point/question had to do with, 'if it is so sensitive as to trip at or below a few milliamps, then why the clearly multi-amp arc"? i.e., 30 or 50 milliamperes will not arc so strongly as to melt the end of a copper wire! I believe we have established that the speed of the circuitry is slow enough that it can not prevent reaching very high currents before circuit is opened when a short or low resistance path is present.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top