Electrical Help Please

Jub 631

Member
If I come off a 2 pole breaker in my main breaker box with 3 wires(two 120v and a bare ground wire) to a sub panel with a GFCI two pole breaker, the two hots connect to the GFCI, but where does the ground connect to (neutral bus bar or the ground bus bar?)..then where would the pigtail connect to from the GFCI breaker? and what wires goes to my timer from the GFCI ( 2 hots and a ground from the ground bus bar?)
 
(quoted from post at 02:33:06 06/11/16) Oh Boy! Here it comes.

That does seem to happen a lot....

OP, get a 4 conductor cable; white, black, red, bare copper.

Black and red off the two pole breaker; should be 30amps if you're using 10-3. 40amps if 8-3 and so on. White is to the neutral buss bar, and bare copper to the ground buss bar. You'll notice the white and bare copper are in parallel; the current can go thru both or either. Electrical code likes redundancy.

At the sub panel, you connect the black red to the main buss bar that you'll snap the breakers on. White to the neutral and bare copper to the respective buss bars. Then install your breakers, and depending on what's downstream, 240v or 120v, install the appropriate wiring. I can't tell you more, since the last part of your post is incoherent....
 
For starters, if you feed 120/240 service via a 2 pole breaker in a main panel to a 120/240 sub panel, YOU RUN FOUR WIRES

Two (Red and Black) Hot Ungrounded Conductors

One (White) Neutral Grounded Conductor

One (Green) Equipment Grounding Conductor

At the sub panel, unlike at the Main, the Neutral Buss and the Equipment Ground Busses are kept separate and electrically insulated and isolated from each other. NO Buss to Buss tie bar and NO Neutral to case/tub bond.

The sub panel (depending on where its located) most likely requires connection to a Grounding Electrode.

Typically in wiring devices white pigtails connect to a Neutral Buss and green or bare to the Equipment Ground Buss.

240 Volt devices connect to the two 240 VAC Line to Line Red and Black Hot Ungrounded Conductors, 120 volt devices connect to ONLY ONE of the Hot Ungrounded Conductors and the Neutral Grounded Conductor, the case/frame (if it has one) connects to the Green/Bare Equipment Grounding Conductor.

Or wire it as Billy Bob and Bubba tell you lol, electrical or legal questions usually draw more opinions and responses then any other subjects posted here.

John T Too long retired EE and rusty on the NEC so NO warranty
 
EXACTLY, I (a retired electrical engineer) have been here almost 20 years and indeed electrical or legal questions usually draw more opinions and responses then any other subjects posted here lol Billy Bob and Bubba who wired their garage while downing a case of beer are "experts" and by golly how they wired it still works !!!!!!!!!!! CANT ARGUE WITH THAT

John T
 
I think electricity is too subjective. Each area has different codes and all too often you see experienced electricians arguing a point.

As far as arguing that something works, my parents hundred year old house comes to mind. The service wire goes through the attic which is two bare wires on porcelain insulators. They were separated by three feet but you had to be careful walking through the attic where you put your hands. Then all the receptacles were screwed to the plaster lath instead of being in a box. The house is still there but gees.
 
(reply to post at 20:31:08 06/10/16)
y main breaker has only one bus bar. It has both bare wires and white wires connected it (so the bare ground and the neutral to the same bar). So if I run a 4 wire to the sub panel that is where the ground and neutral will connect in my main panel correct? The next question is when the ground comes into the sub panel it will go to the grounding bar in the sub panel and the ground out to the load will also connect to that grounding bar and that basically will feed back to the neutral/grounding bar in the main breaker correct?
 
Good points, In all my years of practice and having attended NEC Seminars, I didn't find it so subjective by those who "really understood" the subject, the disagreements I saw were between people who didn't fully understand the code. When I heard national experts such as Joe McPartland or Mike Holt explain the subtle differences and reasons why the code said this or that I found it made sound engineering sense with no reasonable room for disagreement.

HOWEVER to your point with which I agree, it was DIFFERENT INSPECTORS OR DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS I observed different opinions YIKES and what you have to do is what the authority says, agree or not grrrrrrrrrrrr

Fun chatting with you


John T
 
Good follow up questions, looks like you are understanding all this and are getting there:

"My main breaker has only one bus bar. It has both bare wires and white wires connected it (so the bare ground and the neutral to the same bar)."

That's sure possible, since in the MAIN the Neutral Buss is Bonded to the Equipment Ground Buss often with a cross tie bar ORRRRRRRRRRRRR a single common Buss where BOTH White Neutrals and Bare/Green Equipment Grounds ALL connect.

"So if I run a 4 wire to the sub panel that is where the ground and neutral will connect in my main panel correct?"

CORRECT you run the Equipment GroundING Conductor designed to carry ONLY Fault Current, and the Neutral GrounDED Conductor to carry normal return current from that common buss in your main panel.

"The next question is when the ground comes into the sub panel it will go to the grounding bar in the sub panel and the ground out to the load will also connect to that grounding bar and that basically will feed back to the neutral/grounding bar in the main breaker correct?

MOSTLY CORRECT. In the sub panel the separate insulated isolated GROUND BUSS connects to the Equipment GroundING Conductor you carried from the Main Panel and the Bare/Green Equipment GroundING Conductors out to shop loads wire to that Buss. The White Neutrals out to shop loads wire to the separate isolated Neutral Buss. NOTE AGAIN the Equipment GroundING conductor you ran out there will ONLY carry FAULT Current while the Neutral carries normal return current.

You done good

John T Long retired EE and rusty on latest codes so no warranty mind you but believe this is still correct
 

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