Help, I've killed my tractor!

Copeland

Member
Have a 1939 Farmall H that ran great and had great oil pressure until I tried changing the transmission oil. Now I've killed it and am desperate for help as I dearly love this tractor. Here's the story: My brother was supposed to drain out old trans oil while I went to town to get new oil. IH-Case dealer recommended 6 gal. of Hy-Tran Ultraction Hydrolic Transmission Oil, which I bought. Got home, brother was gone, but tools were everywhere and plug where trans oil goes in was out and the hole was open. I assumed he had drained oil, so I started putting in new. A little over two gallons in, oil started coming out of "level check" plug hole on side of tractor. Brother came home just then and said he had not drained oil! Stupidly, I figured, "Well, if it was two gallons low, I'll just put plug back in and call it good for now." I know mixing oil is bad and shouldn't have done this - I goofed. Now, tractor starts up and runs fine for five minutes until it is heated up. Then it starts to lose power and oil pressure drops from 3/4 where it has always been to just above 1/2. Engine seems to "miss" too now after heated up - never did this before. Also, after heated up, trans oil leaks bad from cover plate below tractor in front of where one of the trans drain plugs is located -- seems like oil coming out of the open holes in that plate (I'll attach a pic of the area where leaking now). Odd thing is if I let tractor sit for an hour, it starts up fine and oil pressure is back up and it runs fine for five minutes again. Help - have I truly killed this tractor? What should I do to get it back to running great again? I'll be forever grateful for advice and recommendations.
 

I would start by draining all the oil again . Then add the right amount . You probably haven't killed it , there might be something unusual happening with the oil pump though . Leaks are most likely due to excessive pressure built up from the overfull transmission case . These might settle down once the extra is drained .
 
Trans oil has nothing to do with the engine. I would be inclined to get the correct gear oil (probably 85W-90) at the correct level.
Start engine and run it to see if it quits as before. If it runs ok-problem solved. If it quits, check to see if engine has spark at plugs. If not,change condenser in the distributor. Could also be the coil heating up and failing.
 
There is no direct connection between the engine and the transmission oil on an H farmall. Where exactly did you add the oil??
 

The engine oil and transmission oil are totally separate systems
Time to step back and get yourself some reliable information on proper care and feeding.

http://pages.suddenlink.net/twcook/farmall-h/afteryoubuy.htm
 
Overfilling the trans "could" cause the engine to bog down some, MAYBE, Ive never done that. The trans also should have gear oil, NOT Hytran. You probably have a bad seal somewhere, but without the pics, its hard to tell.
 
I put the trans oil in the hole right on the deck in front of the brake pedals in the direction back toward the seat. That is the correct place on an H, right?
 
Could the problem be that I have Hytran and not the proper gear oil? Could this be causing the engine to lose power? I get that the engine oil and the trans oil are different systems, but could the Hytran be such that it is causing problems?
 
It is odd that none of this happened before I added the Hytran oil. It could be as you suggest that the coil or condenser are going bad, but how could that happen from just adding the Hytran?
 
Just a shot in the dark here, but it sounds like two problems cropped up at once. Like others said, drain the transmission totally and put in the oil the book recommends. The engine misfire could be the condenser or coil. I don't know what could cause the oil pressure drop. Maybe it was dropping before and you just didn't notice it. I am guilty of ignoring the oil pressure gauge so it can happen.
 
You have a coincidence on your hands. You didn't say so, but if one really caused the other it would run perfectly when you push in the clutch.

I'd be draining the engine oil and make sure it doesn't have water in it or something. On these old engines it's normal for the oil pressure to drop at a hot idle. When I run my M on the grinder it thins the oil enough to drop the guage to about half when you throttle it down.

Get that HyTran out of there. The dipstick at the dealership had never even heard of an H and wanted to sell you gold in a bucket. Not that I don't buy it, but it's for my big cab tractors.
 
I really believe these are separate issues, there is no way to cross contaminate, and it was full when it ran out overflow hole. I would expect that you have found the reason it was low is that it leaks badly and the hytran made it worse. You will have to diagnose the engine issues, but drain the transmission and fill it with 85-140 or straight 90W and see where it leaks.
 
golly,YOU ARE OK, you got a lot to learn though . as your oil warms it will decrease in pressure. you have a gasline restriction, blow air through the line into the tank ,as for the miss ,, it just mite be fuel starve stammering , I like to run a qt of atf fluid in 5 gallon of gas ,it cleans the fuelsystem and helps the valves deal with unleaded gas according to the snakeoil sellers . ..put some LUCAS Hubsealer in the tranny ,IMHO.but I do not know ,the H should have 90 wt oil,.. that hy tran is 10 wt and pricey .aint no wonder it is pouring out thru the seals and on the ground , sadly ,it takes common sense ,and few people have that trait in their genes these days .the founders of our country were born with common sense , and that is what helped make this country great .but ,beyond that, these days though there are far more that lack the intellect to operate a tractor , let alone grow a crop and harvest it , provide animal husbandry , and finally market all so they can continue ,..but the human mind can learn .. there will be a lot of well meaning fellas offering overlapping advice, to help your h stay in running condition ,,.hope you can take criticism and correction ,this bunch can rib pretty hard ,but if you take it in stride and don't take their barbs to heart , you can make it and gain and earn respect ..
 
There is one other thing I would do , that is if it is allowed in the USA . It is a fairly standard practise here in Australia .

Take the remaining Hytran oil , or at least the empty container and throw it at the dealer's feet , then as he instinctively goes to pick it up kick him as hard as you can in the arse :)
At least then he might think twice about taking advantage of a novice just for the few dollars he made on the deal .
 
It's natural to see a cause-and-effect anytime you do something to a machine and a problem crops up. Of course, most of the time there IS a relation between what you did and the new symptoms, but that's not necessarily so. The two things could be unrelated, or they could be related but not how you think they are. It's also quite possible the symptoms were ALWAYS there, but you didn't notice until after you did something you think was bad.

Let's start with the obvious problem: the transmission oil leak. That might explain why the tranny was two gallons low. Maybe the leak was always there. MAYBE you filled it to the wrong plug and it's overfull. I'd double-check against the manual and make sure the oil level is correct before going any further. If you determine the oil is at the right level, then you'll need to fix the leak. Switching to a heavier oil might help some, but a leak is a leak.

I'm not familiar with the H. but is it possible you overfilled the hydraulic reservoir? That might explain your other symptoms.
 
I want to thank everyone for the helpful advice. I've been an idiot with this oil thing -- my fault completely and I won't try to pass blame anywhere else. I'm betting most in these responses are right that a coincidence happened and I thought "one thing caused the other." In any event, I'll do the following to see what happens: First, I'll get rid of the HyTran; I have never bought it before, so I did not know it was so much thinner than the regular gear oil (the person at the IH-Case dealership said I'd be stupid to use anything else....). Second, I'm going to add some Lucas Hubsealer in the tranny, as one person suggested to see if that helps as well. Third, I'll check the condenser and coil. Finally, I'll do something to clean out the fuel system. After I try everything, I'll post again to let everyone know how this turns out -- so that others can learn from my mistake. Thanks again for the help. Y'all are the best.
 
I have 2 H's and an M, and I think you have two separate problems here, as there is no connection between the trans oil and the engine oil.

Drain the trans/final drive and fill with SAE 90 gear oil. You do NOT use Hytran in this trans. You can check for leaks later.

The oil pressure drop as the engine warms is normal, as others have said. You probably just didn't pay any attention to it before.

Then address the engine miss and loss of power. Probably an ignition issue.
 
we all learn by doing ,if you are like some of us fellers that get mislead by bad info .... you can go back to your friendly ihc parts counter guy and tell him he don't know beans from apple butter when it comes to letter series ihc models ,then he will become your unfriendly parts man ...LOL ... I learned best by having salt rubbed into my stupidity ,,for your sake the guys were pleasant enuf ,mostly because you are humble enuf an appreciative of their advice . and I AM STILL LEARNING EACH DAY ,when a man stops learning they are tapping the soil over his nose with a shovel a seasoned mechanic told me...
 
(quoted from post at 00:01:09 05/04/16) There is one other thing I would do , that is if it is allowed in the USA . It is a fairly standard practise here in Australia .

Take the remaining Hytran oil , or at least the empty container and throw it at the dealer's feet , then as he instinctively goes to pick it up kick him as hard as you can in the arse :)
At least then he might think twice about taking advantage of a novice just for the few dollars he made on the deal .
Although I agree with you, IH has recommended HyTran in the older tractors. Almost nobody that tries it has success in the older tractors, although it is a great product where the viscosity is not an issue. The dealer was just following company recommendations.
 
Quick update: First of all, I want to thank everyone who gave advice/comments -- all were very helpful. After reading everything y'all posted, I made a trip to another town where I could get 85-90 gear oil. I drained out the Hytran, put in the new 85-90 oil, drove the tractor for about fifteen minutes -- and NO leaks at all. None. The Hytran had been draining out like water, but the 85-90 did the trick. Now to the next part. Even thought I *know* there is no real connection between the engine oil and the trans oil, the oddest thing happened. Right after I changed to the 85-90, the oil pressure went back up consistently to 3/4, where it was before this whole mess started. I can already hear people saying, "It was just a coincidence" and "One doesn't have anything to do with the other"-- and they'd probably be right. However, it still seems mighty odd that the oil pressure is now back to normal, AND the "miss" I had is now gone, too. Maybe the tractor was just mad as heck that I put the Hytran in and, like an old mule, decided to be stubborn. Anyway, my story might serve as a warning to anyone thinking of putting Hytran in these old machines -- my experience was a disaster. Thanks again, everyone. JC
 
My guess is the thicker oil affects your idle speed. One might reasonably assume that the thicker the transmission oil, the slower the idle. However, on my Ford I've noticed that when it's cold the idle speed is slower with the clutch disengaged than when it's engaged. Exactly the opposite of what you'd expect. A faster idle will raise the oil pressure and smooth out any roughness.
 
If the rear was 2 gal. low to start that means a couple things 1)it has a leak somewhere and 2)You must not check your oil levels very often.As far as the engine acting like it did was it pulling hard or seem under strain? If so the lighter oil may have not have been lubricating a bearing that's going bad as well as the heavier oil. Saying an engine has a 'mind' is total
nonsense and you need to research to the base of the problem.
 
Thank you for the comments. Everything IS back to normal now that I put the correct weight oil in there -- oil pressure back up and no leaks -- and the engine runs fine again. It would appear, from what several on the forum have said, my biggest mistake was getting talked into putting Hytran in there. I'll never do that again! I admit it is still a mystery why the Hytran would cause the other problems (if, in fact, it did). Oh well -- I'm just happy that everything is back to normal again. Thanks again to everyone for the help. This truly is an awesome place for advice and suggestions!
 
the transmission oil has nothing to do with how your tractor engine is running.you better find someone who knows what there doing you obviosly dont have a clue what you are doing.not trying to be a smart A$$ just telling it as i see it
RICK
 
im sorry for being a little tough on you sometimes i speak before thinking.hope you get it fixed and running
RICK
 

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