CC permit holders

A serious question to those that carry.

Reading this board and listening to local talk radio shows I am astonished to realize the number of people that are carrying a gun everywhere they go.

Now what I am trying to figure out................

Is it that this country has gotten so bad you fear for your life every time you step foot out your door?

Or is it that you feel it is your right to carry a gun and you do it just because it makes you feel macho or better than others?

Or just some other reason I have not thought off. So give us a honest answer. WHY do you carry?
 

I carry because I can. I MIGHT need it for self defense, but I sincerely hope that need never arises.

With terrorism on the rise, it only makes good sense to carry it if you have it. For what it's worth, I have owned a carry weapon for less than one year. Never even owned a handgun before that. Didn't feel it was necessary.
 
1 reason I carry is because at 67 yrs old, I am too old to fight. Another reason is that I do not intend to be in a store or restaurant and just cower there while some nut case comes in and starts shooting or knifing people.
 
(quoted from post at 15:50:13 02/07/16) 1 reason I carry is because at 67 yrs old, I am too old to fight. Another reason is that I do not intend to be in a store or restaurant and just cower there while some nut case comes in and starts shooting or knifing people.

Bingo!! I am 65.
 
I carry a pen knife because I may need it. I carry a pen because I may need it. I carry a revolver on the tractor because of ground hogs and snakes. When I go to town I carry a pistol because.
 
I feel the old saying "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it " comes into place here. The world is a different place now than 20 years ago. Never know when or where the next attack my happen.
 
I've had my carry permit for a little more than a year but haven't felt a need to carry regularly, although I do take a revolver with me if I'm going into an area with which I'm not familiar. I got the permit because it is my right, after living for so long in a state (MN) in which the head of local law enforcement (a police chief or sheriff) got to unilaterally decide, on a whim, who could and couldn't carry. In my county, almost no one other than a buddy of the sheriff could get a permit. That just wasn't right, so I decided when the law was changed from "may issue" to "shall issue" that I would get my permit. That said, I'm looking into getting a small carry gun (maybe a Ruger .380?) because the world seems to be becoming a more dangerous place.
 
Cousin works in county clerk's office. Says half the county is licensed. (Probably an exaggeration, but...)

Wife doesn't particularly like to carry, extra weight in the purse, etc. Says she's not going to need it going "there," where ever that may be. Keep reminding her the time on the road is where the danger is. Sadly, a lot of places we go are not appropriate to carry,so you end up going empty handed.
I prefer to carry whenever I leave my comfort zone.
 
The country isn't getting that bad, it has been that bad for a while! My job used to take me into the worst part of NE metro areas, and there were 3 occasions that I was glad to have my cdw. Were I reside(SEKY) is a relatively trouble free area but I have seen first hand why it is a good idea to be armed. I look at it like a spare tire. I dont want to use it, will try my darnedest not to use it, and keep it tucked away till I do need it, but when I need it, im glad to have it. Sadly the two states that the three incidents that I referenced earlier did not honor my states permit, so if it had gone any further than it did i would have been screwed, but thankfully the parties involved realized that the honky with the southern accent wasn't playing games either. A pistol is just like my Case pocket knife, and Trim fingernail clippers. I dont leave home without them!
 
I carry everywhere it is legal to do so. I am not a showoff that I want everyone to know that I am carrying. I carry to Church because our church is on a highway 5 miles from anything else and wer get more than our share of beggars. Some are rather belligerent to say the least and as the person that has his eyes on doors, I try to head off trouble. I carry at work because my job takes me into isolated areas and everybody in that area has a big mean dog. Now in 8 years, I have not had to shoot even a warning shot, but I have it, I also transport closing receipts to the bank, and having had my business broken into after closing 3 times, I don't intend to be killed or beat up. After carrying fopr over 8 years, now it is just kinda like putting on my shoes.
 
I do not have a CC due to the fact I do not want the paper work that goes with it. Now if we get the Constitutional carry I will. Better to have a gun and not need it then to need it and not have it but yet I do not want to have paper saying I may have it
 
No John,I don't do it to feel macho or better than others. It's an enormous responsibility to carry a loaded weapon. Like the one other guy said, I'm not planning on hiding until they find me or loved ones. It is worthless if I don't have it and unseen if I do. So what's your plan John?
 
I have had my cc permit for almost a year. I don't get out that much, but carry when I do, yes, even to the small country church I belong to. I have been surprised that VERY few places have a no guns sticker on the door. I'm 64, as the saying goes, I'm too old to fight and too slow to run, so I just carry a gun. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I was surprised tho, Wife and I went to a movie at the new theatre in town, no signs on door prohibiting guns. Maybe I'll be more inclined to take the grandkids to a movie now. I truly hope I NEVER NEED IT, but if I do, I am ready and able to defend my family and myself. Chris
 
I carry because I think that there are many people in todays' world that do not respect anything or anyone. I have never FIRED my weapon but I have had to show it once when I felt threatened. I never upholstered it but just flipped my coat open. It stopped three younger men that I truthfully think were going to try to do an old man harm.

As for David G. I think modern media has made the issue worse but there are real threats today that where not here years ago. There where ZERO meth heads around 10-20 years. They are stealing just about anything that is not nailed down to feed their habit. Also I do not like the element that has moved into North-east Iowa out of the slums of Chicago. They are bringing their problems with them into Iowa. They have turned areas of Cedar Rapids and Dubuque into areas of higher crimes and shootings.

I never felt the NEED to carry years ago now I do. The entire country has many people that feel the same as I do. I have yet to hear of a CC permit holder committing a gun crime.

I refuse to be a victim!!!!! I am not going to hide in the corner while some idiot walks in a shoot a bunch of people. That treat is going to get worse. The lawlessness is spreading. We have many people in this country today that HATE the very country that let them come here. I think shooting and mass murder like the CA massacre will be come more common. ISIS is on the run as a major land occupying ARMY. I think they will try more attacks like Paris. I am uncomfortable in large crowds in the last few years because of these threats. I no longer think about it as IF it will happen but more of WHEN it will happen.

That is the great thing About CC. It is up to YOU personally if you carry or not. If I am wrong and David G. is right then there really is no one hurt by any CC permit holder. I am a strong supporter of CC but not so much of OPEN CARRY. I think many that open carry are showing off. My goal as a CC permit holder is for no one to know if I am carrying or not. Also many need to remember that CC doe not just mean GUNS!!! It is many types of weapons. Longer bladed knifes, brass knuckles, or a baton are legal to CC too.
 
many years ago, I was driving across the state of Montana. about 2 in the morning I had reason to use a rest stop. not a car in the parking lot. as my wife and 2 small children were asleep in the car, I locked the car and headed towards the restroom. about half way there, a strange feeling came over me and I returned to the car and put my pistol in the waist band of my pants. once I finished my business in the rest room, I turned around and there were 2 guys standing in front of me about 6 feet away, and one near the door. I wasn't sure what to do. had I waited to be attacked, it would have been too late to pull my pistol. I walked over to the sink and prepared to wash my hands. I could see in the mirror they were just standing there watching me. I washed my hands and turned around. they took a step towards me. I opened my jacket and made sure they saw I had a pistol. they looked at each other, said something and left. I waited about 30 seconds and walked out. there still wasn't a car in the the parking lot, nor was there a car leaving the parking lot. i could see down the hi way 5 miles both directions. I have no idea where those guys came from or where they went. i think about that experience every time i leave the house.
 
I carry because I can, I want to, and I don't intend to ever leave my wife or daughter to the hands of some moron. Nothing to do about being macho, just about being responsible for my own safety, and seeing the world for what it is
 
I have had numerous friends who were fortunate enough to have been legally armed when they needed it and thanks to that no news worthy situation arose. There is an old saying 'there are no atheists in foxholes' and I have known several "anti-gunners" who have survived close, potentially life threatening calls and are now "true believers". I carry when I go out at night because I too am too old to fight or run (making me a prime target) but mostly around the yard at night since the neighbors saw a mountain lion hunting the coyotes...or was it the other way around?
 
Crooks who aren't completely stupid will take some time to case things out. It wouldn't take a genius to figure out I collect cash at my office and that I leave at night with the days receipts. I leave the office with caution and keep an eye out until I'm clear of the parking lot.
 
I open carry when I can, and CC when I think it's more prudent to do so. I began carrying with the idea that someone I knew would be dumb enough to draw on me, and when he did, I was glad I had mine with me. From that point on, I carry nearly 24/7.

Further, I had a scare in a interstate rest area years ago. Thankfully someone else walked in and prevented whatever may have happened......but the incident left me with the hairs on my neck standing up, and the feeling in the pit of my stomach that I had just gotten extremely lucky. I carried, without a CC, for a long time after that, especially when I stopped at rest areas.

If anyone doesn't think places like that are dangerous, check out the news right after Thanksgiving, about a man here in Concord, NC, less than 20 miles from me, who was shot in the back, in a rest area, while headed home from a Thanksgiving vacation. No reason, no provocation on his part, and no robbery, just two thugs looking for a thrill, and we can only assume at that moment to extract some 'justice' on a 'white man'.......

That said, the ONLY reason anyone needs to carry, is the simple fact that it is a RIGHT. Think about it this way. If you don't exercise a right, regardless or whether it's the right to free speech, the right to carry a firearm, the right to vote, or whatever, that particular RIGHT is being freely given up by you for the simple fact you do not exercise it.

At a time in this country where our rights are slowly being eroded away already, who in their right mind is going to willingly give one up? Not me..........

What's funny is when someone, like a guy I have had discussions with on another site, seems to think that those of us that have a right to carry open shouldn't do it......'in order to preserve the right'..............That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. My response was to ask him when he was going to stop exercising his 1A right to free speech by saying the things he was saying (went beyond just what I stated), and making gun owners look bad.....he shut right up......

So, carry because it's a right, and because it's much better to have it and not need it, than to need it, and not have it......and to have the last thought that goes through your mind being, "I wish I hadn't left my pistol lying on the shelf at home".....
 
No, it's not that bad, but there is still a possibility. And if it is legal, and it costs nothing, why not be prepared?

What does not cost nothing about being prepared is practice. I feel it is important to have fired a piece at least 100 times within a month of when you might need it. You never want to need to use a weapon and not be very familiar with how it fires and how the safety works. Worst case is someone uses your weapon on you.
 
You have some good honest answers here, my reason has been already been said " I am to old to run or fight". Here is

" A gun owners last Prayer

Lord, Make me fast and accurate
Let my aim be true and my hand be faster, than those who would seek to destroy me.

Grant me victory over my foes
and those that wish to do harm to me and mine.

LET NOT MY LAST THOUGHT BE, IF ONLY I HAD MY GUN

and Lord if today is truley the day that you call me home, LET ME DIE in a pile of empty BRASS."
 
ever see a refugee with a gun? any photos of Jews in concentration camps with a gun? guns made the USA free, guns will keep it free.
 
If so many people are carrying then why aren't some of these mass shootings reduced by the law-abiding citizen that's carrying? That's what the NRA claims they do!
 
Because its easier than carrying a policeman! Just teasing. I don't carry, don't even have the permit. Some day I'm going to take the class but I don't feel the need to have one since I live in one of the safest areas of the country. However I do feel the need to have one when I am traveling with my family, especially through some of the larger Midwestern cities. Make no mistake however, the crime rate has been declining for 20 years, we are now on levels last seen in the early 60's. I have never lived in a safer time than now, but I believe that is coming to an end. I personally believe that if you feel that you may have the need to defend yourself then by all means do it. No one knows your situation better than you. At the same time I have no problem with those who do not wish to carry because they know their situation better than I do.
 
Hi John;

I was in law enforcement for 32 years and carried off duty only occasionally. Now I carry even though I'm in another state. Why? The world has become more dangerous, road rage etc, people just seem to be angrier and more willing to do you harm even without real provocation. Many of them carry guns. There seems to be a fear growing in America for these reasons and because of the threat of terror. I want to be able to protect my family and self. It is terribly sad that the world has come to this, but it has. What do you do?
 
(quoted from post at 19:39:27 02/07/16) A serious question to those that carry.

Reading this board and listening to local talk radio shows I am astonished to realize the number of people that are carrying a gun everywhere they go.

Now what I am trying to figure out................

Is it that this country has gotten so bad you fear for your life every time you step foot out your door?

Or is it that you feel it is your right to carry a gun and you do it just because it makes you feel macho or better than others?

Or just some other reason I have not thought off. So give us a honest answer. WHY do you carry?

Look at the way you worded your questions after asking for a serious answer. Are you afraid, do you suffer from such low self esteem that you need a gun to make you feel like a man? You don't seriously expect anyone not to note the tone of your post, do you? I thought you were a smart, reasonable, man before this. Now I see you're just another anti-gun elitist that thinks anyone that doesn't see the world exactly as he sees it must be a coward or head case.

And yeah, it is for a reason you didn't have the mental capacity to consider. It's not fear or "needing to feel like a man" that causes me to carry. It's spending 20 years as a cop and seeing what happens to good people who get victimized. It's knowing that if I need a gun, I need it NOW, not in 20 minutes to an hour when the cops shop up. It's because your fear of weapons does not over ride my responsibility to my family and community. It's not about power, it's about not being powerless. I hope you can discern the difference.
 
In my country some of us thought it was our duty to carry an M16A1 to serve and protect our people and freedom. Now That I am just another face in the crowd so to speak it is my duty to serve and protect the people who cant, or wont protect them selves. IF I am somewhere and a nut case wants to hurt Innocent folks I will do something. If I am carrying he better be a better shot than the Marine corps taught me to be. If I am without he better be able to get to me first or I will give him everything this old farm boy has to offer. The world is changing. Time for us to be ready to fight back. Wish more people would carry.
 
JD I also live in the Dubuque area. I remember when you could walk the streets from 32nd & Jackson to 7th and Jackson up and down Rhomberg Ave. and never had to worry, anytime of the day. Care to do that now? But the city elders will tell you that we are better now because we are more diversified, not to mention the millions of dollars in federal money that flows into the city. I carry only had to show it once, guys thought they might have better luck elsewhere. Mass hysteria, no..macho man... but cant wait for the police to show up and take the report either
 
There are armed citizens stopping these shooting but the news media barely reports it. Not long ago there was an nnalert terrorist go into a business in Fort Worth TX shooting and the business owner stopped him by shooting him. I never heard if the guy survived or not.
 
Mostly because the chances of anyone being in a mass shooting (FYI standards) are so impossibly small coupled with the small percentage of Americans who are actually carrying coupled with the fact that most of these shootings are happening where it is illegal to have a gun in the first place. It would have to be a perfect scenario for it to happen. Like saying you happened to be standing somewhere with a fire extinguisher at the time where a fire started that was going to kill 4 or more people.
Just my take on why it very rarely happens.
 
Really? Do you think that these mass shootings were set up by the media to generate hysteria?? Is that what you are saying?? Wow. I truly feel sorry for you. You are so blinded that you cannot see the truth - even when it is right in front of you.
It is a fact that gun ownership, and the very existence of guns is never going to go away. Whether you like it or not. Whether I like it or not. Once the genie is out of the bottle, it is not possible to put it back in. Even if every gun in the USA were confiscated and destroyed, sooner or later, somebody would be making their own in a basement or garage machine shop.
In any case, the second amendment grants the citizens the right to keep and bear arms.
 
My job takes me into police stations pretty much daily. More and more I see the universal gun free zone sign of a pistol in a circle with a line through it, even at police stations, so I joke with the officers that I can't figure out why so many places dislike pistols, and its a good thing that all of my sidearms are revolvers. They laugh, I laugh.

A couple of winters ago, some young man walked into the rural grocery store, local chain of supermarkets where I shop, walked around the store for about a half hour, then pulled out his .40 pistol and started shooting people. He killed two women, one a shopper, one a stocker that was the daughter of some nearby neighbors. Turns out that the store was recently annexed just inside city limits and there just happened to be two officers in the area as dumb luck would have it and they were there and in the store in under 3 minutes. They got the call, raced to the store and got there as the man had a manager on his knees and was about to shoot him. They did what they had to do, he left them no choice, and they saved the manager and any other potential victims. Horrible night for everyone involved including the young man's family, and he didn't leave a note or anything as to why he did it and no one still knows why. Out in the middle of nowhere, we made the national news because this kind of thing can happen anywhere. To this very day, even after being pressured to do so, none of the stores in that chain has banned concealed carry, and I carry, including there. I know the people there and elsewhere. They're comfortable with me, I'm comfortable with them. My 81 year-old mother, my three sisters, my nieces carry and they practice quarterly on my property to keep familiar with their sidearms. My brother would carry, but he's gone blind and is battling stage 4 colon cancer. We don't look for trouble, nor do we question our Second Amendment.

Mark
 
Thanks guys. I read every response; and all I can say is I am sorry for you guys that you feel the way you do.
Going threw life always looking over your shoulder.
I try to avoid bad situation areas for the most part; but really do not fear for my life enough to carry even if I am put into bad situations.
I can understand having a gun if you close a business at night; but to feel a need to carry just to go to the store or church.

I am not anti gun. Own several guns myself. Just do not fear for my life in such a way that I need to carry one everywhere I go. But am also glad a lot of you do; that way thugs fear even guys like me because you never know who is carrying.

Macho may have been a little harsh. I think David said it a little better. Mass paranoia fueled by the media and gun lobby.
 
I have to admit David, my first thought after reading your post was "he doesn't know what he's talking about" but after thinking a second you are very correct. The NRA wants us to believe that if you aren't for us you're against us, and in some cases they are correct. I personally believe they are calling it correctly when they say that the end game is taking away most all guns.
The media believes "if it bleeds, it leads". Sensational headlines followed with non stop coverage. Couple that with the general anti gun thoughts in the media (I might feel the same after I had to go report on someone's child being shot and seeing all the gore). This makes people belive that anyone with a gun is just a loose cannon.
The mass paranoia applies to both sides of the spectrum. Some fearing robbers and rapists and the other side fearing anyone with a gun. Also quite a few level headed people in the middle.
 
Russ, these mass shootings that you refer to almost ALL took place in gun free zones where no one was allowed to carry to protect themselves or anyone else. The only one(s) armed? The shooters that took advantage of gun free zones.

Mark
 
John i have carried long before it was OK by having a permit . I started carrying back in the mid seventy's when i went on the road for my protection as for some reason i got to see back then what some people were like . I had a drivers side window shot out one night while hauling Coke from Republic steel in Youngstown to Warren and the bullet ricocheted off the door frame and hit my shoulder , i was not driving my reg. truck and had the OLD standby that the heater did not work in and i had Carhartts on with a heavy coat over them . The bullet did not go thru but let me tell ya it plum hurt . In 78 the coal miners went on strike around here and started getting nasty and shooting up trucks with one driver getting killed and a couple more wounded , when we had a truck strike they did not stop mining coal so we were not going to stop hauling coal . The state bears and county mounties were giving us escort in and out of the mines and most of us were packing . On one day a group of us caol buckets went into a strip mine that was still working and we loaded out about fifty loads of coal and we all pulled out together . These load were headed to Toledo from the Dover area.The lead bear asked if we want to stop and have a bite to eat before we headed up the road , so we all stopped at a small old truck stop on U S 250 near U S 21 . The bears and cpounty mounty's stayed by the trucks while we ate . when we went to leave i had to run to the little shack out back . When i came out they were all gone and i am still in hostile injin country . Into the truck and out the road i went just as hard as i could go , as i topped one hump in the road i met a lone east bound bear and he called me on the CB and asked if i was with the large group way out inft. of me and i told him yes that they left me back at the truck stop so he flipped around and followed me and told me don't back out of it keep on hammering on it . He ran with me to the county line and had to go back . About five to sevn miles after he left me on my own a brown 72-73 buick came up behind me and started out around me with four guys in it as it was coming up along the trailer the passenger window came down and a barrel of a PUMP 12 Ga. came out and it was pointed at the cab . NO your not going to shot at my truck or me and my window came down as fast as i could crank it and out came my revolver , as soon as the hood was even with the door i put three rounds down thru the hood , lots of steam came out , the driver of the car swerved off the side and i kept on going Now how would that have played out if i had not had a GUN. Or the two times that two guys once in Ohio at a truck stop on I 71 tried to break in my truck while i was sleeping in a well lit truck stop in the middle row would have gone had i not had a GUN or up in the N/W side of Chicago tryen to get a couple hours sleep before the place i was suppose to load opened when once again two guys tried to break in and the response you got when you came out of the bunk with one in Hand ( MAN HE GOTS A GUN ) ask my Buddy Gene about not having a gun when he got robbed at knife point at the Dunes truck stop wright next to the restaurant Yep , not only did they get his money to the tune of about 1200 bucks he also got stabbed Not real bad but he did get stabbed now had he had his gun with him he may have still been stabbed But i'll bet you he would have shot that SOB in the back as he ran . After that Gene carried a GUN that was back in the early 80's Have you ever had a run in with wacky weed growers double croppen your farm , yea they are ARMED , ya ever had a run in with and Armed trespasser That is why i carry what i carry while out in the fields . I carry a side arm and a VARMIT rifle that if i miss on the first round i have 29 more to chase it to his hole with . No i will not run away as i made myself a promise in 68 when my feet hit U S soil that i was never running again and noone was gong to make me run . Now i am way to old for a tap dance with someone that wants to do me harm or harm my family or even my friends So it was bad even back in the 70'& 80's it is even worse now . Do i want to or go looking for a gun fight NO , hope i never have to shot someone again , will i so fast your head will spin i have no problem doing so and will not loose sleep over it those days are long gone . maybe you are lucky that you have never been in a situation where the need has come up . It is better to have and never need then to need and not have. Like being in a heavy fire fight and feel the bolt lock back because your out of ammo and the fight is just getting started .
 
I got one when they were first allowed, have yet to carry. That don't mean it ain't beside me in the house.
 
....so I am assuming that you would only carry a jacknife if you were 100% sure that you were going to have to cut something that day? If you guessed wrong then you would be the one flagging down traffic to give you a hand "cutting " that binder-twine off your drive shaft before it caught on fire under your car. Some people have grown up where preparedness is mandatory and a way of life/survival. No "paranoia" , just preparedness. Big difference in my book. Are you the guy who loads up a trailer and heads 100 mi to a tractor pull with no tools on board? If not then you must be paranoid. Just sayin'. Not trying to change your mind but we don't need you to "feel sorry" for us either. Peace.
 
I live in las vegas and I carry. I do so not to make a statement of any sort but because like many Im 65 yrs old and will not be a victem.I dont go where i think it maybe dangerous yet it could be that in a parking lot at walmart or where ever that a whack job has a point to prove.I cannot predict where an incident may occur. So I carry
 
John, in my gun cabinet is an old .22 rifle , single shot, el-chepo I think Sears. The story of this gun is.
My parents driving a truck with a camper driving West to snowbird land. Stoped at a rest area in the grand state of Illinois , came a knock on the door, dad, expecting a visit from the next camper they were traveling with, opened the door and found himself looking down the barrel of this rifle. He grabed it and controled the direction ,falling out of the camper onto the dirtbag. Dad ended up with the gun and dirtbag got away. Cops were called, never found said dirtbag, so after a year my father claimed the gun. He survived 22 bombing missions over Germany and Europe to almost lose his life to this scum. I have some guns worth much more money but not as meaningful as that one.
Darned right I carry!!!!
 
Im too old to win a hand to hand fight anymore. So I carry hoping I will never have to us it. But if there is a story to be told, its going to be mine.
 
WOW , now yours I need to reply to. I am going to save this one for the files. People are so brain washed that it just makes you sick. In NY city many many many years ago EVERYONE carried and even the women had a little something in their purse. Now people took care of themselves but the cops got so bent out of shape that they made the legislation enact the Sullivan Law. Yup now you have to call the cops and we see how well that works. I HAVE been just minutes form being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In NJ you can't carry but there have been times a 9mm shows up in a belt loop. he he.
Another way to look at this as others have said. I will add this, look at gun free zones as totat BS and then look at any war where people are not armed. Even Hitler was not stupid enough to mess with Switzerland was he. EVERY man is armed. Yamamoto said of the United States that there is a gun behind every blade of grass. The first thing we should have done with Sirria was to drop about five million M-16s with 20-or30 million rounds and tell them to take back their own country. Then you have all of the cuddle idiots yelling about we need to take them in??? Most all of Europe now is beginning to realise it is time to send them all back! When NPR radio has stories to that fact I almost couldn't beleave it. Scotland is having a fit about them and told several churches to knock it the heck off or else.
 
I think a lot of it depends on where you live and travel. In rural America, concealed carry probably is not a big issue, but in big cities with lots of unemployed rift raft and lots of illegal immigrants, you can't bring a knife to a gun fight. Remember, there are 48,000,000 foreign born people in this country and with open borders, that number is growing every day. Remember, everybody is entitled to what you have.
 
Do you pay for life insurance "just in case"? Do you carry insurance on your home "just in case"? Why not be ready "just in case"?
 
The batman killer in Colorado drove past the closet movie theater, drove past the largest movie theater and went to the theater that had a sign out front that said NO GUNS. It seems like mass shooters pick targets that they know won't be armed. Look at history... human beings are the most violent, ruthless species on the planet. We killed a whole lot of people to create the USA. Some folks walk thru life with daisy's in there hair and others make it possible for them to do it.
 
Two reasons:

1. Even here in (very) rural Maine, drugs are a growing problem. Not just use (although that's huge) but sale and manufacture and the associated criminal activity. Oxy, heroin and meth are everywhere and there's plenty of the various forms of coke to go around. A meth lab was busted IN THE PARKING LOT OF A BIG CHAIN MOTEL in the county seat, 20 miles away. Carjacking is on the rise. Gang bangers from NY and even CA are busy organizing distribution and sale in towns as small as Bangor, 50-ish miles away. It's not a question of IF it will impact on me or my family, but when.

2. It is my suspicion that when (again, not if) the world situation unravels, the first really big impact will be an EMP (Electro-magnetic Pulse) attack. If I'm on the road when that happens and my car/truck is rendered inoperable, I will be walking home. I intend to get there and be with my family and I DO NOT intend to be waylaid.

I know this sounds like a paranoid/whacko-prepper mindset, but I don't lay awake nights worrying about it, nor do I have 10 years worth of dried vittles buried in the back yard. I'm just mindful of it, and it doesn't cost a thing to be prepared. As others have said, better to have and not need...
 
(quoted from post at 23:27:08 02/07/16) Thanks guys. I read every response; and all I can say is I am sorry for you guys that you feel the way you do.
Going threw life always looking over your shoulder.
I try to avoid bad situation areas for the most part; but really do not fear for my life enough to carry even if I am put into bad situations.
I can understand having a gun if you close a business at night; but to feel a need to carry just to go to the store or church.

I am not anti gun. Own several guns myself. Just do not fear for my life in such a way that I need to carry one everywhere I go. But am also glad a lot of you do; that way thugs fear even guys like me because you never know who is carrying.

Macho may have been a little harsh. I think David said it a little better. Mass paranoia fueled by the media and gun lobby.

You don't get it at all, do you? If you don't want to be responsible for yourself, fine, don't be. But do not apply your opinion on the risks in life to other people. We don't wear PPE gear because we "FEAR" a chain saw or grinder, we don't wear seat belts, put life jackets or bike helmets on kids because we fear anything, we don't keep fire extinguishers or Epi-pens on hand because of fear. We do these things because bad things really do happen to good people and not having the proper tool on hand means someone can die. I'm in a very, very rural area, probably far more rural than most of what I've seen of Louisiana. We've had a number of home invasions lately, all drug related, all in decent areas. No one ever expected this type of thing to happen. No one ever expected children to be kidnapped and raped right out of their front yards. It's happening now.

I feel sorry for people that live in some sort of fantasy world where it's all sunshine and lollipops. That's not reality.
 
I should add after reading the other replies:

I'm a selfish esso bee, and what's mine is MINE. If you're gonna try and take it, one of us is going to bleed. Yes, I do have insurance, but that's a weak answer. Crooks are getting the upper hand because no one has the guts to stop them. That's not going to fly on my ranch.

And, as has been rightfully pointed out, I'm old and slow in addition to never having been in a fight in my life. Don't know how to throw a punch much less take one. DO know how to shoot. Tho my qualifications are no longer current, I was an NRA certified Handgun and Shotgun Instructor for Law Enforcement. It was a job requirement when I worked as a civilian armorer for the Navy, working with and training military and DoD guards.

(I'm not an NRA member and won't become one for reasons that have no bearing on this topic.)
 
Done correctly, you'd never know who was carrying and who wasn't.

Despite repeated predictions that legal carry would result in a return of the Wild West (which is mostly a fairy tale anyway) it's never happened. In fact, in most states/municipalities, passage of "shall issue" laws has reduced crime.
 
I do not presently carry. But I am thinking about it very seriously. Our community is being over run with illegals. What was once a quite town, now has 2 or 3 murders a year. All over drugs. My personal opinion the old west is coming back just with faster horses.
 
I don't have a CPL here in Michigan but plan to get one. Mostly because I'll be moving (in retirement) to a rural area where the neighbors are some distance away. I'll be carrying a sidearm mostly for varmints but you never know who I might meet in my woods (larger variant of a varmint: meth head or other low-life). And I don't want to have to constantly get rid of my gun before I run to the store or something.

As for not knowing when you need it, a few months ago a customer who was a CPL holder took out a robber in a bank lobby in Warren, MI. Plus, Even if I am not carrying, I'd like to think a potential criminal doesn't know that. :wink: So, guys, keep on packing.
 
Oh I do get it.

It is a crying shame that our government; juridical system; law enforcement; criminal rights; jails; has gotten to the point that a lot of you guys think you need to carry a gun everywhere you go for "just in case"

We wear PPE; carry car insurance; have fire extinguishers; because there is a real risk that we may need them.
Kind of sad you feel there is a real risk of going to the corner store for a gallon of milk that you need to take a gun along.
 
Yes I see the news reports.
All the news talks about is the gory attention getting things.

So does the news reports have you scared enough to carry?
Or do you think your odds of being held up are really that high?

Either way it is still kind of sad.
with one the news media has created such mayhem that people are afraid to walk the streets.
On the other our child rearing has gotten so bad we have thousands of thugs walking around each town just looking for their next victim.
 
Just like wearing a seatbelt. Never needed one in my entire life but someday it might save my life when I least expect it.
 
I'll grant ya that is is sad.

Doesn't make it any less true.

Immediate threat in my little town? Unlikely. But not impossible, therefore preparedness.
 
If you take notice all these "mass shootings" happen at gun free zones. The law abiding are unarmed while the criminal is free to do as he pleases. Want to do something about mass shootings - make "gun free" zones illegal.
 
I feel sorry for guys that can't spell and don't know the difference between through and threw......
 
I don't have a concealed carry permit, but I'm considering getting one, to make a statement if nothing else.

I enter our county courthouse several times a week for meetings and on other county business. When I enter the front door, I'm met with a big red sign listing items and activities that are banned in the building, including firearms, hunting knives, the usual illicit drugs, etc. Does it make me feel warm and fuzzy and safe? Hell no. It tells me I am entering an area where I have no means of defending myself except for hand to hand combat I was taught in the Marine Corps. There are simple ways of killing someone with your bare hands, but you have to be able to contact them physically to do it.

Several years ago, I was driving down a residential street in Lincoln, Nebraska minding my own business and got caught in the middle of a gun fight. Apparently a drug deal had gone south. I felt kind of helpless, just watching lead fly. Even if I hadn't a personal need to use it, a pistol would have been a comfort. Like I told a lady Police Sergeant who took a statement from me and checked my car for bullet holes, after ten years in the Marine Corps I'm not one to get upset over a little gunfire, but you don't expect it in Lincoln, Nebraska in the middle of the day.

I guess guns are like parachutes; when you need one, you'd better have one.
 
I have a CC permit and I carry at all times. Our country has come a long way since I grew up in the 50s, a time when the doors were rarely locked, the keys were usually left in the ignition switch of the car or truck, cops weren't targets, we had prayer in school, there were no school shootings or mass shootings, there were no drugs, terrorists (domestic or foreign), no ACLU, black panthers and the list goes on and on and on.
Now, when you go into a Cracker Barrel or a Walmart or a Church, you don't know if some deranged idiot or terrorists is going to start to shoot the place up. Hopefully, for me and my wife, that day will never come but if and when it does, we will both be able to protect our lives and the lives of the good people around us. We may not be successful but at least we won't die unarmed, hiding under a table or some such thing.
We've come a long way, baby and unfortunately, not for the better.
 
[i:654c4848f0]...there were no school shootings or mass shootings, there were no drugs,...[/i:654c4848f0]

Not completely accurate. Way, WAY less than now, and little or no news coverage, but it did happen.

I suspect that news coverage and "15 minutes of fame" is at least part of the motivation behind shootings/mass shootings.

Drugs and drug abuse have been around forever, just not on the scale they are today.
 
After reading your comments maybe a more appropriate handle for you would be 'John in La La Land'. And you can make of my name what you will. TDF
 
Goose, our town courthouse parking lot (friend of court) has had 2 murders in last 10 yrs. Jilted "a-hole" men who can't tolerate a woman having a little power over her own life and his. I hate the thought of even going to the courthouse for anything, let alone unarmed.
 
Save your pity. Spend it instead on prayers that you never hit the reverse lottery and find yourself unarmed in a life-or-death situation. As they say, "when seconds matter, the cops are minutes away."
 
You must live in a bubble .#1 I live in an area that there is at least one to two shooting a day and that is only the ones you hear about on the news and there are others that never get reported( most drug or gang related). #2 Its not a macho think its that I believe in the right to protect myself and my loved ones and if I need to carry a gun to do that that is what I will do.
 
Don?t know if this will answer your question or not John. To me its just like someone who drives on the interstate and does not wear a seat belt. You kind of deserve whatever may happen to you. Putting on my fire arm is as automatic as strapping into the car. To me its just being proactive. I am not going to be that guy huddled under a table in a restaurant trying to shield my children when something awful happens. If someone is will to kill to hurt my family then they better be willing to die to do it cause it will be over my dead body. I have long story I will not share here that influenced my decision almost 20 years ago to carry. It just takes one time of being a victim to open your eyes. The next time may not turn out as good.
 
Does have to do any thing with the gov or law enforcement it is just what the world has come to deu to the fact much of the gov including the cops are as bad as the crooks when it come to breaking laws.
 
I must be one of those that lives in a bubble ? I must still be in a decent area compared to many on here. I know there is a lot more crime around these days too.
I have thought about CC but in my daily travels about every place I go, even work has those goofy no guns allowed stickers on the doors too. The past few years I am seeing way too many idiot drivers doing stupid dangerous things. I am thinking more and more about getting one of those car cams like some on here have. Often times I think I'm better off not having one close by as I have visions of trying trick shots Annie Oakley would be proud of on some of these idiots.
So right now the fear of me randomly going into some place it is not allowed and having to deal with the local cops busting me is greater than the fear of what criminals I will run into. I'm sure this would change in an instant if me or someone I know personally had just gotten into a bad situation.
 
Something that makes a difference to me, and I suspect to a lot of other people, is the kind of possible danger we face. Some dangerous situations, like weather, happen naturally and involve no human intention. Other events, like traffic accidents, involve human carelessness or stupidity, but again, no intent to do harm. The events that occur because another human wants to get his way, and doesn't care who gets hurt in the process, or because harming others is the specific purpose, are the ones that are intolerable. If we're prudent, we take what measures we can to protect ourselves from the natural or accidental events that can harm us, but few of us go to extremes about these kinds of events. We live in houses that storms could damage, not in underground bunkers. We carry auto insurance but don't drive armored cars. We accept that there is a certain amount of danger in normal life, and there's no sense in obsessing about it. Being the victim of someone who wants to hurt us is different.

One way this influences our decisions is to make us view odds differently for different classes of possible events. For example, the chance of me being involved in a life threatening traffic accident any given year might be 1 in 1,000, while the chance of being in a place where there is a mass shooting might be 1 in ten million. (Obviously, I'm just making up these numbers, but they don't have to be more than generally accurate for the point I'm trying to make.) I'll take reasonable precautions to avoid being in a traffic accident, but my underlying feeling is that it's just one of those things that happens. That isn't how I feel about being in a shooting, whether it's because I'm in a public place that someone decides to shoot up (unlikely), or because an armed robber is debating whether just taking my wallet is enough, or whether he should kill me, too (not as unlikely). The thought of any other person creating a situation in which he is the one who gets to decide whether I should live or die while I helplessly wait to find out what he decides is so unacceptable to me that I'm willing to take precautions against it which may be far out of proportion to the actual likelihood of it happening. In other words, I'm responding to the emotional weight of the event, not the statistical weight. But that strikes me as perfectly reasonable. Each of us lives in the world based more on the way we feel about things than about actuarial calculations of odds.

Stan
 
(quoted from post at 10:18:21 02/08/16) Oh I do get it.

It is a crying shame that our government; juridical system; law enforcement; criminal rights; jails; has gotten to the point that a lot of you guys think you need to carry a gun everywhere you go for "just in case"

We wear PPE; carry car insurance; have fire extinguishers; because there is a real risk that we may need them.
Kind of sad you feel there is a real risk of going to the corner store for a gallon of milk that you need to take a gun along.

Over the course of 20 plus years working in this area as a cop John I saw many examples of the "risks" finally catching up with everyday, common, good people that never thought they'd be in the position they found themselves. I don't carry everywhere or all the time. But danged if I'm going to let your opinion of what my risks are cause me to give up my rights. That's what it comes down to.
 
(quoted from post at 09:35:39 02/08/16) Hmmmm...don't know whether I should feel scared or secure when I visit your country....Ben

I don't know Ben. I was sitting here this AM listening to CFJR and they were covering some of your crimes in Canukistan. This link covers a mess of Candian murders over the past year. Not exactly all sunshine and lollipops up there is it?

http://primetimecrime.com/Recent/recent%20murder.htm
 

I joined the Wichita Police Department when I was 21 and it was mandated that we carry at all times, on and off duty. I have carried ever since because it is natural to me - I am 64 now.

If I am in a store and a puke comes in to rob the place one of us is going to die. If it is him then good, if it is me then so be it, I will no longer care - but I will sure do my best to kill him or her.
 
(quoted from post at 16:28:11 02/08/16)
(quoted from post at 09:35:39 02/08/16) Hmmmm...don't know whether I should feel scared or secure when I visit your country....Ben

I don't know Ben. I was sitting here this AM listening to CFJR and they were covering some of your crimes in Canukistan. This link covers a mess of Candian murders over the past year. Not exactly all sunshine and lollipops up there is it?

http://primetimecrime.com/Recent/recent%20murder.htm

Apologies Ben, I meant CFRA out of Ottawa. ( I miss Lowell Green!) CFJR is the Brockville station my daughter has on.
 
There are many that have never faced the wrong end of gun that share the same opinions, and questions.

Then there are those that have, and survived. They have absolutely no questions, and don't care about anyone else's opinion.

Those that have never been on the wrong end of a gun, but carry anyways, are smart enough to know that willingly giving up a right is just plain dumb, and even dumber when it makes the potential of giving up your life also that much greater....regardless of how small that chance may be to begin with.
 
Your right, we all wear PPE "just in case". Now think about things just in the context of wearing eye protection. When something actually does fly up and hit your glasses, it does it in a split second, and everything has to be exactly right for it to happen. In other words the piece has to come off at exactly the right angle, you have to be in exactly the right spot, etc, etc. So many variables come into play that it's not funny.

Now, lets say a piece takes a full minute to fly up, just for the sake of argument. There are 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day, 365 days in a year, and lets say your 60 years old. This means the odds of something flying up in your face in one of the minutes of your life is 1 in 31,536,000.

Break all that time down into seconds and the odds become even greater. Add in other variables as I mentioned earlier, and the odds become even greater. I know I've been wearing safety glasses for a lot of years, and have only had something hit them maybe twice that I can think of. I'm sure there are guys who have worn them even longer and never had anything hit them.

Thing is most people wear them because they are told to. Most are required to not because 100 million people went through the day without getting hurt, but because 1 person did.

The same holds true when your taking about carrying a weapon for protection. Some, like myself have had a gun pulled on us. We carry because we learned the hard way. Most do so, not because they plan to be a victim of crime, but rather because someone else was a victim of crime and they realized that being prepared and carrying your pistol was a smart idea.....just like wearing safety glasses, or other PPE because someone else got hurt by not doing so.

Remember, in the end a firearm is nothing more than another tool, just like a pocket knife, or a hammer. It has a use, and it performs it's job well in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. Beyond that, it can lay on a shelf, right beside a hammer, for 100 years and neither tool will ever harm a soul.....regardless of what the media would have you believe otherwise.....
 
My simple answer is: "When Seconds count, the police are only minutes away", or in my case living in rural america, make that "30 minutes or more away". With the increase of those who seem to think they are entitled to everyone else's property, One must prepare to defend their own. I hope I never have to use it, but I will be ready if needed.
 
John, Sorry for your clearly clouded thought process, unlike you, those of us who choose to carry do not do so due to any gun lobby or manufacturer's propoganda, we strictly look at the facts, first that the police can not and will not be everywhere to protect you from the dregs of society that our government clearly condones, the flood of illegals that external_link refuses to acknowledge, the lack of enforcement of laws across the books, the worthless lawyers who get these dregs out of jail when they get busted and should be put away. The fact that the government can't get it thru their heads that creating more laws to make things that are already illegal is pointless. Sorry you have your opinion, however those of us who do not agree do not have any intent on forcing you to carry a gun, so it would be nice if those that do not like guns would leave those of us who legally have them alone. It is still for the moment a free country, but it is not fair to think that everyone who carrys a gun does it just because of propoganda, crime due to over run of illegals and currently nnalert are more than enough to justify keeping a gun at hand. Concealed properly, no one will ever know I have mine, unless I am forced to use it.
 
Some good news:

It's a free (more-or-less) country and you can choose your own approach to self defense. If you're not comfortable with or don't see the need to carry, then don't.

I'm really surprised, and very pleasantly so, at how civil this thread has been. I wouldn't have bet on it being here more than an hour or two.

The not so good news:

I seriously doubt anyone's mind will be changed by anything said here.
 
John, I don't wear one open or concealed because I think that I need to, but rather that I don't need your or anyone else's permission or approval. Just that simple. You don't have to like it, and I'm perfectly fine if you don't. Makes no difference to me. I don't need your permission or approval, period.

Mark
 
Honestly, here in the city, I am concerned enough with a crazy nutcase doing something that I would need to defend myself or my loved ones against that I do carry regularly.
Between that and the copycat ideas that the media spreads, I will carry anywhere I am going that I may be in the in presence of those crazies. Which today could be pretty much anywhere.
Scared? No. I'm armed. Wary and aware? Hell yes. Sad to say but this is NOT the wonderful utopia some would want you to think it is or once was.
 
Just another "plus" that comes with cc that directly results in the very "civil" discussion taking place in this thread. The degree of education on the law and liability end of cc that one gets in the class is next to none. They educate you about things that a person not attending this class will never know. Our class was given by active duty police officers/detectives and former prosecuter. They covered everything from the initial encounter right on through to the end of court proceedings and even the affects on ones family afterwords. Wouldn't hurt any of the non-cc ers to at least take the classroom part of this. You'll have no idea otherwise. There are only three actions that justify deadly force. I'll bet you can't name them. If you pick a fight at a party and the guy comes at you with a baseball bat...you can NOT legally use deadly force (firearm) and use self defense plea. It will be murder and you lose. Many others too numerous to go into on here. Point is , cc ers aren't "cowboys" and they are educated more than most and they take it more seriously than you think. 75% of the class is about liability and the law, things it wouldn't hurt everyone to know. And yes, you are getting the collateral benefit of the people who CC. You just won't really know which day to thank them.
 
I would like to thank each of you for your view points and input. Also thanks for keeping it civil and to the point so we could have this discussion.

I in no way wanted to say you should not carry or you need my permission as some put it.
In fact I say "carry baby carry" if you feel the need to. Makes the rest of us safer because you do carry.

But I did get the answer I was looking for by a overwhelming majority.
The streets of this country (even rural America) have gotten so bad that the general public is afraid to leave their homes without protection.
 
just glad I don't live in a country where this discussion needs to take place
Canada here ,I have lots of guns, all legal, but never have felt the need to carry a CW
I do feel sorry for people that feel threatened and want to carry , what a heck of a way to go through life
don't get me wrong , us canucks have crime, just not much that needs to be resolved with gun play
guess if some one was in the drive way looking to steal my truck, I would confront him
but seeing as how the guns are under lock & key , and ammo was in a different place under a different lock & key , by the time I was armed & ready to shoot he would be long gone probably just as well , only a truck, pretty sure insurance company will get me a new one LOL can hardly wait to see the replies to this one
bob
 
John,
Thanks for the post. I've had the same questions in mind and never posted them. I look at this the same way you do...I have guns in the gun cabinet, locked away and unloaded. I'm hoping there will be some way to handle a confrontation without one of them. I sure don't want a loaded firearm anywhere one of my grandkids might hurt themselves with it. But I've never pushed my opinion in this area onto someone who felt the need to have a gun handy in case of need. I think we would all prefer that there be no collateral damage when a shooting occurs.
Butch
 
(quoted from post at 00:08:12 02/09/16) just glad I don't live in a country where this discussion needs to take place
Canada here ,I have lots of guns, all legal, but never have felt the need to carry a CW
I do feel sorry for people that feel threatened and want to carry , what a heck of a way to go through life
don't get me wrong , us canucks have crime, just not much that needs to be resolved with gun play
guess if some one was in the drive way looking to steal my truck, I would confront him
but seeing as how the guns are under lock & key , and ammo was in a different place under a different lock & key , by the time I was armed & ready to shoot he would be long gone probably just as well , only a truck, pretty sure insurance company will get me a new one LOL can hardly wait to see the replies to this one
bob

I understand what you are saying, but how are you going to feel when someone takes your daughter or grand daughter right out of the yard? Or comes in your home in the night with intent to get drugs or drug money and willing to do harm to get it? I used to think that stuff never actually happened, until I saw it happen right around here. You prevent everything, but not even trying is just not my way.
 
(quoted from post at 23:12:34 02/08/16)
But I did get the answer I was looking for by a overwhelming majority.
The streets of this country (even rural America) have gotten so bad that the general public is afraid to leave their homes without protection.

You still can't grasp the difference between "fear" and realizing the risks in life can you?
 
I don't know what's the bid deal is. If the person has a gun concealed, permit or not you will never know it unless you are somewhere where a madman comes in shooting. Then I bet you will thank God he's carrying. I think Wayne LaPierre pretty well summed it up when he said the only way to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.
 
(quoted from post at 06:29:58 02/09/16) I don't know what's the bid deal is. If the person has a gun concealed, permit or not you will never know it unless you are somewhere where a madman comes in shooting. Then I bet you will thank God he's carrying. I think Wayne LaPierre pretty well summed it up when he said the only way to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.

You are 100% correct. A PROPERLY concealed firearm is invisible and undectable. No one but you will know it is there.
 
I live in a relatively "good" area compared to many. Don't carry as a matter of course. I sure as heck DO carry when I travel to Watertown, though. This is not to say I haven't given much thought to security around the home and farmstead. Anyone who ignores the number of stoners who will do about anything when high, is a fool. One's personal security is YOUR responsibility, NOT the police force's responsibility. Bret can probably quote the case and the court (Supreme Court Ruling, I think, but am not sure), that has ruled just that in at least one case I know of. The police's responsibility is to apprehend those suspected of a crime and detain them until a court of law can determine their guilt or innocence. They are not a personal security force.

The one thing that sets the U.S. head and shoulders above all other countries (with the possible exception of Switzerland)is that our Constitution recognizes the God-given right of individuals to protect themselves from all comers up to and including (especially including) our own government. The Second Amendment gives the physically weak the same opportunity to do that as the physically strong. The current security situation resulting from our lack of border security and the increase of
in-country terrorist attacks also suggests that keeping oneself well-heeled at all times is quite prudent.
 
Nearly every place of work has those rules. There has been at least one court case in the mid-west that challenged this practice that was successful. So about any place who posts those signs are on shaky legal ground. I just tell any place I worked who had those rules that if either me or my wife sustains injury or death because you deprived us of our right to protect ourselves, you will get sued for everything we can legally sue you for.
 
You are correct. We live in a country (for now anyway) that allows us to make those decisions about our personal security ourselves. Hope and pray it stays that way.
 
Because nearly every one of those shootings are in a "gun free zones" and law abiding citizens obey the law and leave their arms in their vehicles or at home. Maybe you should check out the Armed Citizen section of the NRA mags. Or check out the FBI stats on how many citizens do defend themselves successfully in a year and how many crimes are stopped before they happen because of the presence of a firearm in the hands of citizens. With all due respect Russ, you don't really expect the MSM is going to report righteous shootings do you?
 
(quoted from post at 12:22:18 02/09/16) That's right, you live right in the area that kidnapping took place don't you, Bret?

The girls incident was 10 miles or so from me in Heuvelton. There have been several others people didn't hear much about involving older kids or adults. But that stuff, the kidnappings and rapes, the perverts and thieves and home invasion types...that stuff doesn't REALLY happen in our area....except it does, and all too often. People don't seem to want to look at the realities.
 

Even the CDC admits that self defense uses of firearms is relatively common. "The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses range from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

That's not to say all self defense use involves a death or injury- "The report, which notes that “ violent crimes, including homicides specifically, have declined in the past five years,” also pointed out that “some firearm violence results in death, but most does not.” In fact, the CDC report said, most incidents involving the discharge of firearms do not result in a fatality."

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cdc-study-use-firearms-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent
 
Bret 4207, that far back in the sticks, you still on a twp road or your own lane to your farm, how many AC's is your farm?
 
We should all take a minute to thank YT for allowing one of the longest ever posts on the tool forum. Could have been "poofed" because it is arguably not a tool but also because of the content. No vulgarity and a very fair and balanced discussion about an important constitutional right. Thank you very much YT for allowing what would have been very easy for you to just "poof" . RB
 
One thing about the statistic about a gun being more likely to kill the owner than some one else - they fail to tell you that over half of all gun deaths are suicides (that's all gun related deaths - gang bangers - cops - everything).

It's not a case of a home invader taking the gun from you or a person accidently shooting themselves (it happens) but in the course of every day life even with suicides factored in you are much more likely to be killed by your shower or bath tub than by the gun in your home. And your child is many times more likely to be killed by a backyard pool than by an accidental shooting. And your family doctor is more likely to kill you than a stranger.
 
If I lived in homogeneous Canada I probably would not feel the need to have a gun near at hand either. But I do not; I live in the deep south. Different set of rules.
 
I didn't think that was what he was saying at all. But then I never thought that we would have an Attorney General that would sell guns to Mexico to stir up support for gun control either. I think that the increase in violence in general is that we are not teaching our kids right from wrong. But then there are some on the far left that insist right and wrong are subjective terms. I agree with you that They can't take away all of the guns, but that won't stop them from trying. Feinstein said in 1999 that if she could have gotten 51 votes for everyone to turn them in, she would have pushed it through. Cuomo has said that forced sales to the Government is an option. But you are correct. anybody that can run a lathe and mill can make a gun if he wanted to. And as far as the second amendment, I think it was from Justice Blackmon that I first heard the claim that it was a right gauranteed to the states (national guard). That idea is being pushed with ferver again. I just read it on CNN this week. Apparently they can't see the word People written in there. To get back on topic, the wife and I started carrying when we started seeing cougers while we were in the woods. When Illinois finally passed CC, we took the class. Don't want to get charged with a felony. Sometimes we are required to be in the rougher parts of the state, and I intend to get back out.
 
John,
here is something to read, kind of explains what most people are thinking.
Not my words but very eloquent.
LOU

?The Gun Is Civilization? By Maj. L. Caudill, USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that?s it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we?d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger?s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat ? it has no validity when most of a mugger?s potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that?s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there?s the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don?t constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that?s as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn?t work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn?t both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don?t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I?m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don?t carry it because I?m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn?t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation? And that?s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)
 
(quoted from post at 15:20:35 02/09/16) Bret 4207, that far back in the sticks, you still on a twp road or your own lane to your farm, how many AC's is your farm?

Town, a little under 350. Not the NY people think of when you say "New York". They think the city, "upstate" is still 5 hours south of me!
 
Major Caudill is spot on...thanks for posting his thoughts.

Sadly the largest town near me is rife with street crime (mostly young black males). Just last week a local doctor was robbed and shot while walking home from the hospital (nice neighborhood, 7:00 PM). One of his neighbors heard the shot, came out to investigate and was shot also. Sadly, neither the doctor nor his neighbor was armed. I would not think of venturing to that city without being armed. Concealed carry is the great equalizer, it creates balance in a society that has so quickly broken down. I would venture a guess that amost of the respondants to this post rarely thought about or felt the need to carry 10 or 15 years ago.
 
I started carrying because of being at college in a rough area and there being several violent acts. I never carried when I drank. I did carry at school even though rules disallowed it. I figured if God forbid an attack was to happen I would at least give myself the best chance of survival and deal with the consequences after. I rarely carry when I am going out unless it is in or near lesser neighborhoods or later at night. I believe that I own a (CC)gun and will never use it other than to shoot some rounds at paper targets. But if I was ever in the position where I needed to use it I want it there with me and not on a store shelf or sitting in the safe.
 
I carry for my own personal safety, to protect myself and family. I'm not so nieve to think that someone will come to my aide in a split seconds notice should the occasion happen. What does this mean, Go Figure, Need I say more.
 

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