Machine shops

jimg.allentown

Well-known Member
Automotive machine shops are becoming a thing of the past. Shops in my area are closing up one after the other. The problem seems to be coming from two directions. Pressure from too much regulation and a serious decline in business. Most of today's modern engines are simply too expensive to repair. Bach in the old days, you could get a gasket set, tear down an engine, and put it back together after repairs. Today, the modern engine gasket sets cost way more money, and now you have to replace many of the fasteners or risk an even more expensive failure.
In my area, 10 years ago, there were half a dozen machine shops in this area. Today, there is one, and he just told me that he is closing up soon.
 
Its a profession most young guys don't want to learn, too much knowledge to keep in their heads, never learned to get their hands greasy or dirt under their fingernails. Sad.
 
What you say is sad but true. In most cases, new engines are just too complex and expensive to rebuild. Back in the old days, I could rebuild my own 283 or 327 for under $500 (new parts, machine work, my own labor). Today, I couldn't even attempt to rebuild a late-model engine because of both price and complexity. I'm glad my community still has a couple of machine shops that serve stock-car racers, so I could still find a machinist if needed for an older engine.
 
Machine shops these days in the US have to have CNC equipment to stay in business, a huge investment. And probably a machine shop on every corner in China. No shortage of young men there wanting to learn a trade and get their fingernails dirty.
 
I live in the DFW metromess, I don't know of any reliable automotive machine shops. Been that way for many years.

There have been a few come and go, mostly cater to the local racers. If it's not a race engine, you get the "6 to 8 weeks before we can even look at it" line.

Then there are the hack shops, the ones that take your rebuildable parts, butcher them to scrap metal, and charge you for their "services"!

I don't know why there aren't any good shops, I work at a machine shop that is not set up for automotive service. We get a lot of calls asking, and we do what we can, but don't have the specialized equipment. Maybe it's time to buy some equipment!
 
Machine shop business has really changed. The only one left here is at the NAPA auto parts store. They had three guys in the shop but now only one.
They still rebuild a few heads. The last head I took there cost $700. 8 guides,seats,valves,surface planed.

They main business is lathe work making shafts.

Back in 94.I broke a two foot long shaft on my Gleaner LII. Allis Chalmers wanted $300. The NAPA machine shop made me a shaft for $85.00.
 
What failures are you seeing all the time ?

From reading what these guys on here post they are getting 300,000 to 400,000 trouble free miles from there trucks. Gas and diesel.
 
The new automotive/tractor manufacturing effort is just not made to be repaired. All the space saving aluminum heads to cast iron blocks. The interference valve engines where the timing belt had to change 55000 "whatever miles". Major head gasket sealing issues. I could go on, but, it is a through away era. "Just buy new". The "cash for clunkers" drive a few years ago is a example. Yes, I agree, No Good auto machine shops left. The local corporate farms are forced to keep buying new equipment because and as as something gets the sniffles it has to go because no one can repair (no skilled labor) and no place to get a cylinder head surfaced (no skilled labor) or a block boiled out. The Major Banks are beneficiaries of all this as there's plenty of interest being collected on the new equipment loans. Auto/tractor mechanics have to be "retrained" to be "video game code programmers". bjr
 
jimg.allentown
Do you remember the BEE Automotive in Allentown? They made housecalls. We had them come to our garage to bore out a 58 Chevy 6 cylinder block right in the car. I am sure they are out of business quite a while. Paul
 
Is Allen Motorsports still around? I bought a block from them at the Ft. Worth swap meet some years ago and it was properly done. I am super suspicious of any machined thing at a swap meet but after talking to them I found out they had set up a booth mainly for advertising and were selling abandoned parts at low prices just to re-coup some of the labor cost. There was also a place off of 121 in Haltom City that I had a few things done at when I was still driving into the metroplex all the time. They did fair work and were reasonable.
 
There is workout there waiting for a place to be done that's for sure. I have run a part time hobby type machine shop for quite sometime. I branched into cylinder head repair machinery a couple years ago because I couldnt get my work done right and with the intent to take in enough work to keep the (expensive) tool bills paid,,,,ya right! In the span of 2 years I went from cylinder head equipment to an HBM to bore and install sleeves and surface work to now there is a crankshaft grinder that I haven't had time to learn how to run and a line of work that gets longer and longer, at least I wont be bored in retirement, LOL.
Like most other dirty hands trades the opportunity for apprenticeship is there and few to fill them.
 
We had a long time larger shop close back in the fall. They preferred to do truck and industrial engines in the later years (more profitable I'm sure) but would take care of anything you took in there. Very good place to have a crankshaft ground or built up. There's still a couple of shops in the area but they're not very good. One good small shop left but always backed up with racing stuff.

One of the counter guys was complaining about business being slow seven or eight years ago. Texas never had a true "cash for clunkers" but for a while did back a minimum trade-in price scheme if you bought a new car.

All good points in the replies. The cost to start a modern shop is prohibitive if you want competitive equipment that's not worn out. Engine run longer between builds and then are not cost effective to rebuild when they are worn. Businesses come out ahead writing off new purchases vs. down time waiting for something to be rebuilt. Also the mentioned decline in people who are able to build an engine from a pile of parts without making costly mistakes. It's a changing and evolving world.
 
It has become a dyeing art and a costly one to get into . Like everyplace else we had a bunch around here some good some so so and some that you would not want to work on a Briggs and Striation . The cost of the machines are out of this world to have state of the art up to date machines that can hold the tolerances . Then like you say trying to get young guys interested in the ART of engine machining and building . And we also have one guy that is slowing down and will only do what he feels like and only for old customers . My one close friend had the best shop anywhere around with in at least ten hours of driving , he had the newest equipment that was out at that time and he was swamped with work . He did not run huge adds in the paper or have a fancy phone book add and his shop was sorta out in the boones . Just a small sign on the mail box . But he had the machines to do anything BUT crank grinding . dick said that unless you can find one or two guys that will spend eight to ten hours a day standing at a crank grinder doing nothing but cranks you can not afford to have one setting . So he would send cranks out to Pittsburg . They would come by twice a week and drop off cranks and pick up ones to be ground . Usually a two day turn around on cranks . Many times i would take something to him and he was busy and he would tell me if ya need it done now you know how to do it or here you do theses heads or you work on boring this block and i'' do the line bore . That was something that i was still learning , i could do it but it took me three times as long to do the set up . He worked himself to death and after his heart attach he could no longer do it and tried to teach his kid how to do the work , BUT even Dick would tell his kid was dumber the box of rocks and had no drive. He offered me his shop for half of the total worth and the use of his building for a year rent free till i could get a new shop built . Yea like that was going to happen . There was no bank that was going to lend you almost a half mill around here , then you would have to comply with all the EPA B/S all state reg.and when you went to build your new shop oh boy the fun would start . Yea i looked into it talked with my Friendly banker the insurance co. Even the EPA , yea that was fun . E P A , that stands for END of PROPEROUS AMERCIA .
 
We have a good honest machine shop in Stockbridge, MI called Stockbridge Auto Repair. Don is very honest and reliable and skilled. His son is apprenticing there also.
 
My thoughts 1. A Lot of stuff is replace vrs rebuild now a days. 2. The cost of running a shop vrs return. 3. You can buy parts rebuilt or machined cheaper than local shop can do it. (crankshaft reground in another country). And last I agree new cars, if they need work they might get a replacement engine ( from salvage yard) or they get a new car!! Starter generator, radiator shops all going the same way.
 
We had 5 in my area. One builds racing engines for Nascar and others and is just too expensive for the average guy. The second ones quality has gone to pot. The third only works on big engines for off road equipment.The fourth one's owner had a bad heart attack and had to close. The fifth and last one is a good guy,is reasonable and does great work but it takes him forever to get anything done because of his backlog of work.My average engine rebuild now takes 4 weeks, due to not being able to get the machine work done.
 
You must not own a Dodge.

3.7 V6 engine - all the rod bearing were wiped out at 75,000 miles the rest of the engine was perfect. Mechanic advised against rebuilding because he had no idea why the rod bearings were toast at that low of mileage while the rest of the engine showed no abuse or oil issues. Replaced it with a engine from a wreck with 88K miles on it. Never even made it out of the shop - hitting on 5 cylinders - popped a valve cover and it was full of sludge and the rocker arms broke off on one piston.

Replaced it with a rebuild 3.7 from Advanced Powertrain Solutions in Texas - they rebuild thousands of these things. Apparently they need some help as the replacement engine shed more metal in the first 6000 miles (oil changed 3 times) than the engine with the wiped out bearings. Replaced the replacement engine with another rebuild. 800 miles and I have my fingers crossed. Meanwhile I am suing Advanced as they refuse to honor the labor on their warranty.
 
Kind of funny how you blame the young guys when the school system set up by baby boomers has been telling them from kindergarten that if they don't go to a 4 year college they have wasted their life.
 
I had a Dodge. 1996 2500 with 360 gas. It did have almost 200,000 miles on it when I sold it. Keep it oil sprayed so it wasn't rotted out. The tranny had acted goofy sometimes for many years but still worked fine most of the time. Figured I'd better get rid of it while I was ahead !

I have heard to stay away from all Dodge engines that end in .7 as they are no good.
 
I seem to remember seeing their vehicles around, but it has been a long time. I remember years ago, having seen guys with portable machinery going to shops and doing some machining work on engines in the chassis. One guy reground a rod bearing throw in the car. Another bored and sleeved a block in the car. In some ways, I miss those days. In other ways, I am glad to see them gone. For sure it was a simpler time.
 
(quoted from post at 11:19:38 02/05/16) Kind of funny how you blame the young guys when the school system set up by baby boomers has been telling them from kindergarten that if they don't go to a 4 year college they have wasted their life.
Funny how something like 2/3 of all high school students do not go on to college.
 
My high school guidance counselor tried to tell me that back in the early 60s. I told him that no matter how many had degrees, someone still had to do the work and get dirty. I never did like to dress up!
 
I still get broken timing belts and chains which bend valves , and head gasket failures from overheats where the head needs to be checked for cracks and machined flat. Flywheels too. Burned valves still happen. I also no longer have a good machine shop within 30 miles of my shop.
 
Hi Same here in Manitoba Canada, the only machine shop I trusted Sanderson tractor at Portage closed down last year. The knowledge they had was unreal and had customers from 500 plus miles away,due to reputation. they were the only machine shop/ motor parts guys that would give me trade discounts for my repair shop, and be generally fair in other respects to. Now i'm stuck with a couple company's in Winnipeg that grind bent cranks, and their work is junk. no parts at a sensible price and junk service,for advice on some of the odd ball stuff that turns up to,as nobody knows anything . The days going to come when I got to tell a customer I can't rebuild his tractor engine because I can't get machining done, That I want to put my name on when it goes in his motor, due to bad work and the comebacks on stuff I didn't do and it piled up later.

I got as couple old tractors in my collection need machining to, I don't know what's going to happen with them either yet!. I would love to have the motor machines here, but I don't have the money or anybody to show me how to run them properly to gain anything good to be ahead right now. I can run a lathe/mill and need to get that as general machine shop time for making bushings and parts is getting just crazy price round here now. Lots of guys to do that and work must be getting thin now the oils slowing down round here. They got to charge(I mean royally adjust a guy) just to keep the staff and run the big fancy shops they built in the good times to!.
Regards Robert
 
Sounds logical now that our society has developed a "Replace, don't repair" mentality.
 
There are about 3 machine shops within a half hour of me. I needed a crankshaft ground about a month ago and shop #1 had a two-month wait. Shop #2 had their machinist taking a month vacation. Shop #3 has priced themselves so high that I decided I couldn't use them. I finally took my crankshaft to shop #4, a place about an hour away and they had a one-day turnaround and a fair price. However,he told me that he isn't making any money and will probably close soon. (He is 70+ years old) He also said that the only thing keeping his shop open is that fact that he really wants his customers to buy the main and connecting rod bearings from him when he does crankshaft machine work. (I had another source, but I did buy my bearings from him)
He said the companies that sell short and long blocks have taken away all of his business. My crankshaft was for a Buda 4B153, so I don't think I could have found a short or long block if I had tried.
 
dhermesc - You are absolutely correct, our local SKOOL system has is now having t - shirts printed up to give to 1st graders that say "Everyone will go to college." Shame on these people for lying to these youngsters. Some need to be farmers, mechanics, plumbers and some Mommas, etc. I am a Cabinetmaker/Trim Carpenter/Farmer and am proud of what I do for a living. I make decent money, pretty much work for myself, and do get dirty almost every day. The Bible says to work with your hands and do it honestly, I do that and I produce a product, a commodity something tangible. My son makes pretty good money pulling groceries in a warehouse, he works hard and honest. I enjoy seeing a finished product and take pride in my work whatever I do. JB
 
There is a good shop by me but owner who is about 45 said he had to take job in town as millright to get health insurance for his family of four. I told him I knew a young fella who might be interested in an apprentice job. He told me he felt it would be too risky for him becuz when young fella made a mistake learning it would cost owner big time. His example made sense to me that if it was carpentry and apprentice cut 2x4 wrong length just go get another and try again but with engine parts you have to buy repacement part and the whole job gets held up in the mean time.
 
How much does it pay? Working in a small shop usually means small wages. Young guys that have the ability to do the work are probably opting to do something that pays better. A lot of remanned engines are done in Mexico. Labor is cheap there, and folks will, if given a choice, go with the cheapest option.

Add in that the country is getting older, fewer young folks to do the work, a lot of marginal businesses are going to fade away.
 
Depends on how good you are I guess. My son works 8 hours a day in the one where he's employed,then comes home and works until 10:30-11 o'clock at night in his own,five days a week,then all weekend in his shop. It's not unusual for him to work 14 hours a day for 30-45 days straight through the winter and in to spring.
 
(quoted from post at 19:58:17 02/09/16) rrlund, your son must not have any children or a wife.

Agree, although once you get 40 yrs. into a marriage the wife is glad you are away from her doing something productive!
 

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