(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Distributed generation and the grid-how?

I

IaLeo

Well-known Member
I am interested in and am for solar for the farm & home along with corporate wind mostly tied to the grid for sharing or backup.
I bet "we" can work out a cost balancing plan and enjoy not getting our energy from coal mines or foreigners.
But.....how can the grid managers shut down hundreds of providers to safely service the wires, poles, transformers? It must mean the grid would manage your electric production...just what the individual providers probably wouldn't want...more big business controls on them. How can this be solved?
Electricity is a tool, so this should be the right board for this thread.
IaLeo
 
Much work is done live nowadays, I watched
them replace 2 poles with taller ones on
the 115kv line that runs thru our property,
all done with power on. And even when they
do need to disconnect something it is done
at the cutouts on the poles, for grid power
I mean not transmission lines.
So it wouldn't be much different, do you
see them shut down huge power plants just
to change a transformer in your
neighborhood? Nope power is routed all over
 
Each device that puts power out on the grid must monitor the current being sent out, these are called reverse power relays, the relays will trip if exceed the agreed output. These organizations have an interconnect agreement and must NOT export unless they notify their provider. There is no automatic trip due to loss of supply, but would trip because the current would quickly exceed their interconnect agreement.

The home solar generation monitors to see that there is a frequency on the outside or it does not connect, so no chance of back feeding.
 

Great ideals and hopes but like all those who promote wind and solar as a way to shut down nuclear and fossil generation. Not so much understanding of electrical generation and distribution.
Don't bother suggesting batteries, pumped water storage , flywheels, balloons under water etc. To store power for later use during the 16-18hrs of every day that solar does not produce power. Don't bother suggesting tidal power or wind either.
Have you checked the cost per Kw hour in Germany, The Netherlands, Norway and Denmark?
 
The one advantage of solar is that it generates during peak usage which is 3:00 to 7:00 during the summer months. I do not believe we will ever be without the base generation. I also believe that nuclear is the best solution, it is a shame we stopped development in the 60s.
 
Unless you have multiple MILLIONS to spend, any contribution of what you can do with pumping "wind" or "solar" back into the "grid" is less than negligible in the big picture.
 
I talked to an electrician one day. I asked him about how the system didn't fry some poor lineman when a line went down down the road on a sunny day. He said there was something that "read" the sine wave from the public line. If that sine wave wasn't there, the solar system would shut down.
Doesn't seem like it would help much during power outages. All that equipment on the roof and on the wall in the garage, just sitting there waiting for the system to come back online.
Tim in OR
 
YES those boys sure love their fiberglass poles! Man I work with electricity all the time but not that stuff. Look at it this way, If you get hit......... well it was nice knowing ya. One of my dads friends did core sample drilling work. When they are going to widen the street or such they sample the sub soil. Well him and is partner were on the side of Rt-31 and the rig touched you know what. Took the fire department like 20 minutes before they could get the damn power company to cut power to the main line. Not a happy day.
The guy down the street who owns one big honker of a dump truck came out of his place with the PTO in gear. Took out the cross the street wires and the big and bad ones that go up and down the street. Also took out a very big pole to finish the job. Somewhere in the $140,ooo range. Five big heavy duty service trucks, and the pole digger and placer truck, and the district super's truck. He did have insurance.
 
Oh no the 115kv stuff isn't fiberglass pole work, has to be done barehanded like a bird on the wire.
 
buickanddeere,
I agree with you, lot of pipe dreams to save the planet and make money with solar and wind. I
don't have all the details, but I think our government has mandated that a small % of our
electricity is from solar and wind. The wind farms in Kansas is running into opposition getting
their power to Indiana via high voltage DC. Calling it the green line express. Northern part of
Indiana has tons of windmills. Indy airport has a very large solar farm. Without government
incentives, this wouldn't be possible. I'm just waiting for my electrical rates to jump to pay
for all this. Or watch the private investors go belly up.

Foot note: Didn't Edison have a problem running two generators at the same time? Didn't the
generators have to be phased locked to produce two sine waves that were in phase with eachother?
If so, how would you put power back in the grid if your AC wasn't in phase with the power
company? Then shut off when power company's power is off.
 
I have no idea why people are opposed to high voltage DC transmission, there is no RF emitted, it is the way it will all go.
 
dave, the big problem with the nuke plants is the waste generated. currently the u.s. has 60,000 metric tons of high level spent fuel waste. it is toxic for anywhere of 1,000 to 10,000 years. worldwide the nuke industry is generating 12,000 metric tons of high level spent fuel waste. what are we going to do with it all? the nuke plants are generally designed to run 40 to 50 years and then shut down. and there they sit. other problem, is when there is an "accident" its a doozey. chernobyl, 3 mile island, fukishima, even the spreader room fire at browns ferry. i havent even touched on the low level and medium level waste.
 
Those so called "Grid Tie" systems do work and are safe and linemen know darn good and well how to protect themselves and the utility grid from any possible feedback OR DAMAGE from home gensets or solar etc. In my next home I plan to install a 5000 watt grid tie solar system. In the RV I have 400 watts of rooftop solar panels plus a smart 4 stage solar charge controller/charger, a 2000 watt PSW inverter, plus 460 Amp Hours (4 deep cycle golf cart 6 volt batteries) of electrochemical battery energy storage. Sure some like solar while others don't and that's their own free choice which I respect and expect the same in return TO EACH THEIR OWN.

John T Long retired Electrical Engineer
 
I do not understand why you wish to put the coal miners out of work. I do understand wanting to cut the tie to the mideast but we just let OPEC ruin the shale producers so now we are probably screwed for a while. Step up fracking and get the shale and tar sands businesses back into shape and we will be fine for several generations to come.
 
Saw an interesting calculation recently. If you add up all the power generated by solar last year by every installation throughout the entire country, you get about the same as one nuclear power plant.

I'm not opposed to solar, but if we want to be energy independent I can think of a better way than solar...
 
All grid tied solar, wind, and hydro equipment has to have approval from your power supplier and a "net meter will have to be installed. Detailed plans and all documation of the equipment has to be submitted for this approval. Any of this generation equipment simply shuts down when there is no input power from the grid. Wind and hydr equipment apply the brakes to stop generation and PV simply disconects. You have no generative power until the grid comes to life again. That is why you need battery backup and an automatic grid disconnect box so you can continue to produce your own power while the grid is down.
Loren, retired residential solar and wind generation dealer and installer.
 
David G, George Carlin coined the term NIMBY, Not In My Back Yard. Does that give you some idea why people are opposed to high voltage DC transmission. I think after all the stink settles, it going to be build.

Look at all the NIMBYs opposing the XL.
 
Geo-THThe Oxford English Dictionary identifies the acronym's earliest use as being in 1980 in the Christian Science Monitor, although even there the author indicates the term is already used in the hazardous waste industry.[14][15] The concept behind the term, that of locally organized resistance to unwanted land uses, is likely to have originated earlier. One suggestion is it emerged in the 1950s.[16]
In the 1980s, the term was popularized by British politician Nicholas Ridley, who was Conservative Secretary of State for the Environment.[citation needed] Comedian George Carlin used the term in a comedy skit, implying that people had already heard of it.[17]
 
with solar systems, the inverter is sort of the brains of the set-up. the panels feed DC to the inverters, which somehow sense the grid voltage and frequency. it has to detect within certain parameters for both for a certain amount of time (i think a few minutes) before it will engage the solar and backfeed. this is for the net metering system. i think it's something like within milliseconds of the grid going down, the inverter shuts the whole thing down.
if you think about it, this system is also necessary for normal functioning, so the inverter would know how to get itself in phase with the grid.
 
(quoted from post at 10:44:17 01/29/16) dave, the big problem with the nuke plants is the waste generated. currently the u.s. has 60,000 metric tons of high level spent fuel waste. it is toxic for anywhere of 1,000 to 10,000 years. worldwide the nuke industry is generating 12,000 metric tons of high level spent fuel waste. what are we going to do with it all? the nuke plants are generally designed to run 40 to 50 years and then shut down. and there they sit. other problem, is when there is an "accident" its a doozey. chernobyl, 3 mile island, fukishima, even the spreader room fire at browns ferry. i havent even touched on the low level and medium level waste.
Click to expand...

The used fuel is actually a resource to use in next generation reactors .
The rest of the waste is low level and is not a concern. Unless you are on JR board of directs of a greenie organization .making a living scaring donations from the ignorant and easily scared general public.
Want something to worry about that isn't easily detected with just a frisker. Lead, mercury , cadmium , PCB's , dioxins , furans etc. There are the real health concerns .
 
Thanks, now I feel much smarter. George Carlin was just stupid for using someone elses NIMBY.
 
(quoted from post at 16:06:57 02/01/16)
(quoted from post at 10:44:17 01/29/16) dave, the big problem with the nuke plants is the waste generated. currently the u.s. has 60,000 metric tons of high level spent fuel waste. it is toxic for anywhere of 1,000 to 10,000 years. worldwide the nuke industry is generating 12,000 metric tons of high level spent fuel waste. what are we going to do with it all? the nuke plants are generally designed to run 40 to 50 years and then shut down. and there they sit. other problem, is when there is an "accident" its a doozey. chernobyl, 3 mile island, fukishima, even the spreader room fire at browns ferry. i havent even touched on the low level and medium level waste.
Click to expand...

The used fuel is actually a resource to use in next generation reactors .
The rest of the waste is low level and is not a concern. Unless you are on JR board of directs of a greenie organization .making a living scaring donations from the ignorant and easily scared general public.
Want something to worry about that isn't easily detected with just a frisker. Lead, mercury , cadmium , PCB's , dioxins , furans etc. There are the real health concerns .
Click to expand...

Dirty rotten spell checker . I swear it goes back and changes entire words after I scroll past it on the little bitty smart phone screen.
Tried to say " unless you are a director on the board of a green weinie organization " who makes their living scaring donations from the unknowing and now scared general public.
Middle aged , middle class women are by far the greatest contributer to " charities".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Geo-TH,In
Solar Energy: property taxes and net metering
Replies
11
Views
328
Vito
Vito
B
The trouble with solar and other off-grid sources of power
2 3
Replies
51
Views
3K
wisbaker
W
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top