O T - Deal breakers

jimg.allentown

Well-known Member
After reading the series of posts about ABS, traction control, and other automotive related things, here are some of my thoughts about some of the newer features...... and what would constitute a deal breaker for me.

Leather interior. HATE them. Simply uncomfortable. Like sitting in a sauna in the summer, like sitting on a cold concrete block in the winter. Heated seats alleviate some of that, but still uncomfortable in the summer. Also, they do not hold up. Modern fabrics seem to last the life of a car. Leather seats start looking bad after just a few years with their cracking and wrinkling and the like.

Start button. As with ANY mechanical system controlled by computers, there are potentials for failures. First objection is the relative unreliability of those key fobs. Guaranteed to fail at the worst possible time. Miles from home (and the spare) and battery goes dead in the fob. Result is hundreds of dollars in expenses to resolve the issue and regain use of your expensive and shiny new car. Then there is that computer controlled starter that goes with that system. When you get that bad spot in the flywheel, a failed starter drive, or a weak battery, what does the computer do? Keep trying to start? Grind the starter until there is nothing left? Drain the battery to nothing? Or just leave you stranded.

Battery killers as I call them are another pet peeve. Some cars turn on the entire complement of exterior lights as soon as you turn the ignition on. So, when you go to start your car in subzero weather, would it make sense to turn on your headlights before attempting to start the car?? Some manufacturers seem to think that is a good idea. Or, do you need the headlights to stay on for an extended period of time AFTER you turn off the car and light switches?? All the while draining the battery that you will be depending on to start the car tomorrow morning.

CVT or "shiftless" transmissions. These transmissions are fine while they work. BUT, when the quit, they are enormously expensive to replace, and for the most part not repairable. Some parts can be replaced, but the cost is prohibitive. Some are simply not repairable. Not like the more reliable transmissions with clutches, bands, and planetary gear sets.

Now, before everybody starts flaming me, here is something to think about - these accessories are making a formerly $4,000 economy car cost $20,000 these days. Also, I do not condemn all modern technology as applied to cars. Items like electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, ABS, traction control, and the like are nothing short of WONDERFUL!!!
 
Businesses seem to cater to the 18 to 49 age consumer. They like all those tech goodies. A lot of newer vehicles are loaded with social media screens in the dash. Myself I am retired on fixed income and don't care about all those goodies, but will have to lay out the bucks when time comes to replace my present vehicle. My current car gets me from point A to B fine without all that extra clutter to deal with.
 
Here are some of my thoughts too.
Many of these items are safety mandates from the government. Well how about the brake lines that rot out in a few short years ? Where is the safety in them ? They should be made out of better materials.
Center consoles. I don't really like them. Just give me the space they take up and I can put more items in that same area in a small crate. Plus they make you fell more trapped in and if your driver door goofs up it sure is hard to crawl in from the right side !
I don't think you can even buy anything without one now ?
 
"Items like electronic fuel injection, electronic ignition, ABS, traction control, and the like are nothing short of WONDERFUL!!! "

Would it be considered "flaming you" if I said it's all a matter of opinion. For instance you say ABS "is wonderful",my wife's Chevy ABS braking system is an accident waiting to happen. If either front tire lose's traction the pedal go's to the floor and dealer can't fix it. Actually I agree with you,alot of the bells and whistles preclude diy repair and are expensive to fix.
 
Mike, agreed on the brake and fuel lines rotting out. Being from western Ny it amazes me that the manufactures make the lines out of materials that corrode. From a liability standpoint you think they would be worried. Add to the mix Ny DOT doesn't just use salt they use multiple types of chlorides that speed up the corrosion to our cars and bridges. Bill
 
(quoted from post at 08:31:34 01/25/16) Businesses seem to cater to the 18 to 49 age consumer. They like all those tech goodies. A lot of newer vehicles are loaded with social media screens in the dash. Myself I am retired on fixed income and don't care about all those goodies, but will have to lay out the bucks when time comes to replace my present vehicle. My current car gets me from point A to B fine without all that extra clutter to deal with.

If the 18 to 49 age group actually had a choice, I doubt if most of them would want all those electronic doo-dads. Sadly, none of us are given that choice anymore. You take what is on the dealers lot. The dealers like all those bells and whistles because it means more profit for them.
 
I know we can't stop progress and I agree that a lot of these items add to a more "user friendly" vehicle. You couldn't beat an automatic choke (remember them?)......when they were properly adjusted!
That being said the one in the new vehicles that I CANNOT tolerate is the TV screen for the kids in the back seat. I know my Dad influenced my feelings on this, heck he resisted a TV in the house for a long time.
We rode a lot of miles as kids learning and seeing stuff that was going on right outside the window!
 
(quoted from post at 10:03:51 01/25/16) We have had ABS on both Fords, GM's and a Subaru for many years and have no complaints whatsoever, some people just can't accept progress!

It isn't progress when the brakes let loose and the pedal goes all the way to the floor just as you approach a stop sign. Pulled the fuse on the ABS and all is well again.

I would challenge anyone to do a panic stop on dry pavement with the ABS functional, and then make the same panic stop, on the same dry pavement with the ABS disabled. See which mode brings you to a complete stop in the shortest distance.
 
You got to accept progress heck if this board was around 80 years ago we'd hear how tractors are a fad but horses where hear to stay, 75 years ago there would be people complaining about those new fangled pneumatic tires on their tractors, 60 years ago we'd hear about folks stating that live power/IPTO was too complex and didn't really deliver any benefits and that diesel fueled equipment won't last.
At Christmas 1986 I was one on leave from the Air Force when my 1983 Ford Ranger decided to do it's own impression of the Hindenburg (fire, probably from the wonderful alternator harnesses they used in that era). Being Christmas Eve AND the wonderful UAW contract Ford had the dealer couldn't even order parts until the Monday AFTER New Years Day. They provided me with a rental, a little Escort that had throttle body EFI (yep all the disadvantages of Carburetors AND fuel injection). Drove the little Escort back to base so I wouldn't be AWOL, oh by the way that thing only had an AM radio, streaking across the Upper Peninsula on a cold winter's night all I could get on the radio was a Canadian station with some sultry female voice talking French, don't know what she was saying but had to turn if off as it was very distracting and kinda erotic. Back to the main story the little cheap POS Escort started easier and idled a lot smother than the Ranger on those frigid January UP mornings. The Ranger was repaired and I got to go back downstate on MLK day to pick it up, ended up trading it for a new Eddie Bauer Bronco II, which was probably the biggest automotive indiscretion I ever made (that includes a new Renault Lecar!) but the multi-port fuel injection was the best feature! It started easier and ran smoother as soon as you got it to light.

Of the 4 vehicles we have in the home fleet now 3 have ABS and 2 traction control and the non-traction control is a pick up with a locking rear end. Yes the single hold out is a 91 Honda we bought new and you know it's pretty sure footed and doesn't really fare much worse than the van or car with traction control. BUT #1 daughter drove a 4 Cylinder Ford Fusion, it had ABS but no trac control. It also had a 5 speed automatic transmission with a real low first gear and it started in the basement every time...which also meet if you didn't have prime tires on it and stopped on a cow pie you were stuck, on the bright side the thing got in the low to mid 30's for mileage on road trip, heck that's what the Renault did when it was new, it's what the Honda did when it was new and the Fusion was a larger car and probably faster too! My Camry has a 7 speed transmission, the traction control makes it less dramatic to go to work in the morning. If nothing else the Traction control or ABS kicking in reminds you you're pushing harder than you should and to back it down a little.

As far as reliability our Accord is at 293,000 miles and all that has ever been done to the injection system is fuel and air filters. I put 80,000 miles on a Fuel injected Mustang, that wasn't as trouble free as the Honda as it needed a fuel pump one injector and two air flow sensors. I put new injectors in the pick-up at 100,000. miles more for maintenance than anything else and at the time I finally got it to run on all 8 cylinders under WOT.
 
Two of my vehicles have traction control and about the only time I lock it out is when I feel like driving like a teenager again which isn't very often anymore. So far I have had to disable the traction control to get somewhere only once. Couldn't get off the street into a parking lot in heavy slush because the engine would de-power. Traffic was building up behind me and I didn't have enough power to get that darned van into the parking lot. The kick out button is under the dash where I had to feel for it and I couldn't find it to save my life. This is a Toyota van. The Colorado has the lockout button right on the dash where I can see it. Both of my 'new' vehicles (08&09) are just modestly equipped. That is what I wanted when I bought them. Fuel injection has admittedly spoiled me. When I get in the 79 Dodge pickup I forget I have to pump it and then nurse it along for a minute or so till it gets in a good mood. In a way I'm glad the good old days are gone.
 
I think you misunderstand my intentions here. I do not condemn progress. I think they are carrying it TOO FAR with some of the "less than reliable" doo-dads and with the battery killers.
 
I wish the cloth seats in my truck were as comfortable or long lasting as the leather seats in my wife's car. Her car is 14 years old, 300k+ miles and the seats are still good, my truck is 9 years old with under 100k miles and the drivers seat fabric is worn thru.
 
Oh well it sure was nice to have points and a carb. When something went wrong I could fix it. I recently experienced 2 cars, not my cars but others, problems they had. It took several hundred dollars after throwing several different parts at it before they finally got it fixed. And then about a year ago I knew someone had a car that dealer couldn't get it fixed. They sold it for parts. It was about 10 yrs old and around 130,000 miles. Looks like 2 independents and a dealer should have been able to fix it.
 
(quoted from post at 22:05:57 01/25/16) Oh well it sure was nice to have points and a carb. When something went wrong I could fix it. I recently experienced 2 cars, not my cars but others, problems they had. It took several hundred dollars after throwing several different parts at it before they finally got it fixed. And then about a year ago I knew someone had a car that dealer couldn't get it fixed. They sold it for parts. It was about 10 yrs old and around 130,000 miles. Looks like 2 independents and a dealer should have been able to fix it.

Exactly. Even if it died out on the road, you could make it run again right there on the side of the road.
 
I agree with you... I am perfectly happy with a simple truck that has manual locks, crank windows, a barrel ignition, NO ABS, definitely NO traction control, etc.
They are all a pain in the arse as far as I'm concerned.

Rod
 
My wife bought a new Jeep Cherokee Limited, (not the Grand Cherokee). Leather heated seats, heated steering wheel, camera and all that stuff. The two things I hate about it are transmission and the stop/start. The 9 speed transmission can't make up it's mind when it should shift. The vehicle has even tried to speed up when you are applying the brake to stop. Research show that this transmission and software have issues. the other thing is the stop/start feature. If you stop at a stop sign or red light the engine will shut off and restart when your foot is removed from the brake pedal. There is a button to push to disable this feature but you have to remember to push it each time you start the vehicle. Wife was told by the Jeep sale person to never push the traction control. Go figure!
 

I fought off Power windows, power door locks until around 2000. Once I brought a vehicle with PW/PDL I will not buy a car/truck with out them...
 
The average owner of a Model T Ford in 1920 was as mystifyied by the magneto and points as much as we may be mystified by modern CAN/BUS sytems and software. The average guy from 1920 did not own a dwell meter or capacitance meter anymore than we may own a diagnostic scan tool. For complex problems, we all just take it to a shop, who has the equipment.

It is all relative, pros and cons.
 
Bingo, Hobo.

Some of the new automotive technology (aside from the nonsensical, federale mandated nonsense) is reminiscent of the TV remote control and microwave oven to me. For years, I could not understand why I needed such things but would certainly not want to be without either these days.

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 01:37:35 01/27/16) The average owner of a Model T Ford in 1920 was as mystifyied by the magneto and points as much as we may be mystified by modern CAN/BUS sytems and software. The average guy from 1920 did not own a dwell meter or capacitance meter anymore than we may own a diagnostic scan tool. For complex problems, we all just take it to a shop, who has the equipment.

It is all relative, pros and cons.

You Sir, are an island of sanity in a sea of uninformed opinion.
 
(quoted from post at 00:56:03 01/28/16) Bingo, Hobo.

Some of the new automotive technology (aside from the nonsensical, federale mandated nonsense) is reminiscent of the TV remote control and microwave oven to me. For years, I could not understand why I needed such things but would certainly not want to be without either these days.

Dean

Cylinder deactivation and Active Control Engine Mounts Are something I could live with out... I like my Honda's but would have to pass on one that had this chit. One demon created the other the buyer is stuck with the outcome..
 

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