Converting a gas welder to a PTO driven welder

I am thinking about doing something with an old Lincoln gas welder with a dead Onan engine I'm thinking about fixing this welder so that I can run it off the PTO of my tractor, has anyone ever done this and what tips could anyone send my way, I feel sure it's possible and I don't think it'll be to difficult, but I would like some feed back before I jump into the middle of this, any feed back and advice is welcomed
 
I think the main issue will be getting the PTO geared up to speed. What does the Onan turn at? Do they turn at 3600 like other small engines?
 
Most generator armatures mount directly to the engine, the main bearing of the engine is the support for that end of the armature, with a single bearing on the other end. You would have to adapt a bearing and support plate for the engine end of the armature.

And then there is the RPM issue...
 
You'll need to step pto rpm up. I'd guess gear ratio you choose depends on tractor horse power. 60 hp engine at fast idle through gears should run a welder previously served by a 20hp air cooled. On the other hand a sae-300 might put a hump in the engine's back. Either way the sound when she bust's off on cold mornings will never equal the Hurc or perkins.
 
Got to getter from 540 RPM up to 3600 first with the proper rotation. Gear drives aren't cheap.Most engine drives use the bearing in the engine to support the rotor in the welder. Another problem to deal with. A belt drive setup could be worked out but not easy or cheap. New engine drive welders really aren't that expensive if you need one, and a replacement engine for the one you have can be bought.Welding for 45 years and still counting.
 
RPM will be the big problem to over come. If you have a tractor wit ha 1000RPM PTO that would help a lot. I have one of those welders myself and it is hand start I like the machine other then the hand start part of it
 
I didn't think about the HP till after I posted the question then I googled it someone did this with a 60HP tractor, my tractor is a 1958 ford 850 with the 172CI engine, as I was getting ready to type this reply I remembered you can get a direct drive hydraulic pump that bolts to the crank pulley on the front of the engine, if I was to come up with a way to where I can drive the welder off the crank pulley would that be enough RPM to drive the welder. I would have to come up with a way to support the welder on the end where the engine is mounted after reading one of the replies, I also think I would want to do this in a way where it can be remove the welder when I wasn't using it because of how far it would stick out that could be an issue. Thanks for the responses you've given so far.
Patrick
 
I don't know what RPM it turned at, it's an older Onan 2 cylinder engine and I believe they turned a slower RPM than your newer engines
 
First thing you should maybe do is look up the spec for that old Onan engine and see what RPM it did in fact spin up. Do not know if that info is on any of the tags on them or not. I know the one I have dated back around 1974 or so. As for mounting it up front not likely to work well since you would have to have a good solid mount and those welders are pretty heavy plus that Ford engine may spin in the 1800RPM range which would most likely be around 1000RPM to few. Now if you had a hyd pump mounted up front and a hyd motor you could maybe make that work
 
If it also produces AC then for you it is likely to be 3600 rpm. On an Onan I'd suspect that this is the case.

For some ideas of hooking it to a pto find a picture of a Lincoln Tractapac. And you might have the problem with that front bearing.

But you might luck out as it probably uses a standard SAE taper crankshaft connection and mounting flange which means you "ought" to be able to swap engines. YMMV - do your research.

For use on a tractor you shouldn't need anything fearsome in pto horsepower. We drive an Oz equivalent 225 generator (no AC) with a TEA 20. Handles 3.25 mm no sweat - barely opens the governor. Not sure of getting 225 but I don't need that anyway.

The older yellow (indistructable) Lincoln generator with 32 volt accessory output was to be run at 2500 rpm.

FYI Our other portable welder is a 225 Tombstone hooked to a 7.5 kva gen set.
 
This might help. From a 1970 (Oz) Power Farming Annual

Onan models

CCK 12.9 hp @ 3000 rpm

CCKA 16.6 3800

CCKB 20 3900

All above 3.25" bore x 3.0" stroke

NH-MS & NH-S 25 3600

3 9/16" bore 3.0" stroke

From this you should (hopefully) be able to work out what you've got and then look for similar horsepower in a different engine. Given that the Onan is SAE standard crank and mounting.

A pto one will do the job. Just that a unit like you've got is a hell of a lot more convenient as you can sling it on a pickup and avoid the multiple shuttling of a tractor drawn one.

And in the weighing of a different engine v/s the pto one you're going to have to build the frame and pulleys etc for the pto one. On that score the Lincoln we have (but don't use) was driven with 4 B-section belts, the one we use has 5. Both have a V-pulley on the generator with the big drive one flat.

My 2 cents worth twice now
 
I think I would look at putting an electric motor on the welder. Then putting a 115/230 volt generator on the tractor. It could be driven with the PTO.

Dusty
 
I bought a Lincoln welder/generator at an auction some years back- had a Tecumseh engine (there's a danger signal, right off the bat). Electric start, with no battery, so couldn't turn it over. Checked the oil, it looked OK. Got it home, put a battery on it, and the starter spun, but no compression. Took it apart- it had no rod or piston! Head was all beat up from where piston had come unglued. Some swell guy had gone to the trouble of removing the piston and rod, then putting it back together and adding used oil to the right level. Grrrr. . .

I looked into converting it to PTO power- but the step up gearing would have cost over a grand, so I abandoned the project. "Someday" I'll get serious about finding another engine for it. Or not.
 
I know, I hate the thought, but you could get a harbor freight engine pretty darn cheap. They are great motors from what I hear. Parts are a pain, so run it out of fuel each time so you don't need to rebuild the carb. You would need to get a tach for that size engine to ensure you weren't overrunning it. I wonder if someone makes a guage aftermarket like my Winpower has. Run it up to the green area and set the governor. I guess that guage is just a tach of sorts. Buy extra horsepower. If you aren't going to run it WOT you won't be pulling your rated horsepower.
 
40 years ago, My dad had a 300 amp gas welder he loaned to a city to thaw their frozen steel water liness. They held engine wide open and the windings of the welder exploded, G forces. City never did pay him for the welder. So be very careful, have a way to control the RPM's to recommended speed.
 
I think most of those SA 200's spun at 1650 rpm. Direct coupled to 4 cyl Continental engine. 4-172 or 4-134 or something like that. I have 2 driven by Wisconsin V-4's. RPM is critical to amp output. Mine have 2 notches on gov control rod.
 
I seem to recall a few weeks ago on this forum someone was asking about converting a pto driven generator to run off an engine.
Just a shot in the dark but they may have everything you would need to do your conversion.
 
Many years ago my uncles took a WW 2 surplus aircraft generator that was advertised with wiring directions in Popular Mechanics and made a dc welder out of it. They mounted it on a small 2 wheel trailer and put a 3speed transmission on it mounted backwards so the pto would increase the welder speed. It made a great welder. I remember a front axle casting from a tractor they welded and it was as nice a weld as could be. It took a little gear ratio/engine speed experimenting though.
 
This one motor runs well generator has 125 volts from exciter but cannot get fire from big generator. Its not burn up, I just done know what part to fix. It's got to be in controls somewhere. Any one know what to tell me what to do next.
a210809.jpg
 

If the idea signs to " save money" , that is not going to happen. At best it will be a hobby tinker project to amused and challenged with.
smallenginewarehouse.com wlil have bolt on engines
 
(quoted from post at 08:49:59 01/09/16) I seem to recall a few weeks ago on this forum someone was asking about converting a pto driven generator to run off an engine.
Just a shot in the dark but they may have everything you would need to do your conversion.
Sounds like these two need to get together and swap generators.
 
Here's what I have,..but it is a gas driven welder as you can tell. However,if you remove the engine and connect a pto shaft with the proper r.p.m.'s I believe it would work. Don't know if this helps at all but maybe you can get some ideas from it.
a210836.jpg
 
More on horsepower. A yellow Lincoln (BT 250) needs 23 hp from an engine or 10 from an electric motor according to some more details in that machinery annual.

If you search for Lincoln Tractapac you'll get an idea of the belt drive step up from pto revs

And yours might look like

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im244.pdf

The Lincoln site doesn't have Tractapac or BT 250 - might have been Oz designations.
 
Denny

IIRC the Pop Mech article had it bolted to a flathead Ford left bank and belt driven off the crankshaft. I think you had to get those generators up to around 4500 rpm.
 
I had one that looked a bit like that years ago. I had to clean up the brushes and armature and also the switch that changes amps had to be pulled out and the contacts cleaned up but after I did that it worked just fine
 
A bit more on the generator taper shaft you'll likely have if the generator doesn't have a front bearing. If that is what you've got you need to check generator engine specs for a replacement. And you may possibly also need a different adapter plate to suit that engine.

http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=gardent&th=110416

I've just been around this area with a gen set and somewhere on the net there are the SAE specs but I can't find them just now.

And on revs - if it is AC and is a 4 pole alternator then 1800 rpm. 2 pole will be 3600 (both for 60 cycle)
 
I did just that using a '60 something chevy deferential. I think they were 3.37.
This very close to the 3.33 increase you need. Lock the deferential gears and
feed from the axel. Be sure to get the one that gives you the right direction.
Cut the other side off and weld a cover on it. Couple the drive shaft side to
generator. As was pointed out below you may need to make an end plate for a
bearing on the end of the genny. Maybe you can sue the end plate from the engine
if it's scrap anyway.It might even be possible to use a rigid coupling and line
the differential up perfectly with the genny and it will support the armature.

HTH
 
i have a 260 amp dc welder running off the belt pulley on my farmall m. this unit was built and sold by a company called haddican brothers. it is made from an aircraft generator. the tractor has a m+w 9 speed, which will double the belt pulley speed if needed. the welder has a low and high output switch, and you fine tune amperage by adjusting the throttle. works great.

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(quoted from post at 18:03:20 01/09/16) More on horsepower. A yellow Lincoln (BT 250) needs 23 hp from an engine or 10 from an electric motor according to some more details in that machinery annual.

If you search for Lincoln Tractapac you'll get an idea of the belt drive step up from pto revs

And yours might look like

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im244.pdf

The Lincoln site doesn't have Tractapac or BT 250 - might have been Oz designations.

How is a 10HP electric motor maintain a 20HP load ?
 
B&D

I was just quoting the annual which I guess was quoting Lincoln.

Looks possible - Bullet welder

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im132.pdf
 
Put another way.

I was just reminded that a 12-ish cfm compressor (same brand) will have around a 2-ish hp electric motor or a 5.5 to 6.5 hp Honda.
 

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