valve grinders

Hi, All,

I rebuild about 3-4 engines a year- a tractor maybe every 3 years, the others are L-head briggs and tecumseks. Parts often not avail.

I was thinking of dropping $300 on a CL valve grinder and maybe some money for a new seat cutting tool.

Any reason NOT to do this as I am spending 100-300 on machine shop valve jobs.

thanks!

Bill
 
The valve seats in the block or the head need to be surfaced to mate wiht the valve, but also carefully drain heat from the exhaust valve and allow hot gases to exit (much like my mouth).

There are tools that have 4-6 cutters arranged around a pilot bit that cut a multiple-angle chamfer on the seat.

You can and many do grind them but its hard to get the same precision of a multiangle cut.
 
I restore old tractors and repair small engines.

I did that about 2 years ago. Bought a Snap-ON (Black and Decker) seat grinder and refurbished a Hall valve grinder I had for several years before that. There is really no fiscal way I can justify the expense, but is sure is convenient to walk over to the machines, and get the job done without having to get the parts to the machine shop, wait on them, and make arrangements to pick them up.

I find I am grinding some valves that I would otherwise try to just 'lap' them in to get by.
 

I picked up a really nice Black and Decker valve grinder at an auction. It came with a Snap-On seat grinder. Some of the stones were worn down quite a bit so I spent more money and replaced those stones. Then I pulled the head off my 1940 H to give it a reworking. First thing I learned was the valves were beyond refacing. By the time I got them cleaned up, I had a real nice razor edge, so those valves went to the scrap pile. Then I tackled the valve seats. Same thing. The seats were too far gone to resurface. Checked the valve guides, and those were badly worn also. Ended up hauling that head into the machine shop so it could be rebuilt properly. My valve and seat regrinding equipment did me no good at all, and now all of that stuff is just taking up valuable space in my shop.
 
I was taught valve resurfacing and valve seat resurfacing using stones with Black and Decker and or Sioux in engine rebuild school in the Army. Was told cutters were outdated . Now, cutting tools are the way to go again. Improved equipment and methods I guess. I go down to the Deere dealer where I used to work and borrow their equipment if need be.
 
There is the cutter that is used to cut a mating angle to the valve rather than grind it. There is also the cutter that cuts the old seat out to install new seat inserts.
 
Handy as heck to have when you need it. I have a Snap-on valve machine and the Snap-on seat machine. Don't use ether much like I did but, still nice to have when you need it. Don't cost me a penny to keep them around.
Also have the valve guide tools. All handy to have if you doing engine work.
 
I have a set of Neway Cutters I bought In the mid 70's. Still working great, carbide cutters still sharp. No stones to replace, and best of all no dust to deal with.
Neway
 
If I am busy in the shop it does not pay me to do my own valve recondition... My equipment is old and worn I do not want to upgrade it and would be somewhat scared of others used equipment. I will do my own with my equipment but normally ship out customers jobs. Some of the valve seats on foreign cars are a bear to grind you really need a cutter... Even the exhaust seats on N's I have replaced are tuff suckers...

If I had nuttin else to do yes I would do my own. If I could do repetitive jobs on the same engine and heads I would tool up for it.... The other issue is I don't own a good parts cleaner are if it needs guides are the guides reamed for oversize stems it needs to go to the machine shop... Most heads I do get resurfaced so again it has to go to the machine shop... I am lucky to have a good shop tho he is always backed up he does do excellent work...

One more thang, I have done my share cleaned a many nasty valve with a wire wheel and wire wheeled many carbon up valve ports in heads... Someone else can have that nasty job :D
 
The thing to be careful of on used equipment of this type is that even a few thousands of wear in the stone holders or pilots or a couple of thousandths runout in the valve chuck will make it impossible to do decent work. If you are able to check this out before you buy then go for it.

Can you put a lathe to work? You can turn valves in a lathe with collets.

Part of the problem with taking things to a shop is finding a shop that doesn't use worn out equipment! In my area there are about 10 places I can take motor parts to get machine work done. Only one is going to return what I consider decent work. Oh sure the others will run and make noise but it won't last near as long.
 
X2 with what the last two posters said. Worn valve and seat grinding equipment is just so much scrap metal and there is a LOT of worn out around for sale. There is also some that has been lightly used and is a bargain. This is usually more of a concern with the seat equipment than the valve equipment.
Although a stone type seat grinder will preform fine work it requires skills and experience to do top notch work. Neway seat cutters can be operated very well by the first time user and a set large enough to do any engine or guide you will run into will fit in the glovebox of your pick up. New prices will scare you but watch Ebay and nice sets will pop up for cheap and nab one. Mine goes from 3/4" valve to 2 1/2" and guides from 1/4 to 1/2 and I paid $300. My valve grinder is a B&D picked up on craigs list for $75
 
There are numerous valve grinders out there for sale. As others have said, it is important to get one that is not already worn out. But, having said that, it is not that hard to find a good one fairly inexpensively. I bought one on eBay several years ago for about $150. But, the machine was 150 miles away, and shipping was more than the machine. I went and picked it up in person. They are heavy.
As to seat grinders versus cutters, both are effective, but the grinder is more useful in my opinion, as some of the harder seats have to be ground, as they are too hard to cut. Here, you will spend some money. Any of the major brands of equipment will be high quality and durable. I personally have a Sioux seat grinder. One thing that you will find is that the parts you will need for them can get expensive. Stones are not too bad, usually running around $10 to $15 each. Pilots, on the other hand, are around $50 each, and you will need one for each size guide that you deal with. That can add up quick. Also, the stone holders are quite pricey. And, keep in mind that a seat grinder consists of many components. You will need a drive motor, stone holders, stones, pilots, and a stone dresser. That is the bare minimum.

The difference between a seat CUTTER and a seat GRINDER is that the cutter uses a cutting edge to remove material from the seat while a grinder uses an abrasive stone to remove material. Both will smooth out a pitted seat, and both will true the seat up to be concentric with the guide. The advantage to the cutter is that it does not make dust and does not require constant re-dressing. The advantage to a grinder is that it will work on seats that are too hard for a cutter. Either one is a good choice.
 
I grind my valves freehand on bench grinder . @@ lol No really ,I have Kwikway grinder, wonderful old machine. For seats I have Souix stone set up . Can sink lot of money into pilots and stones. I send out all my newer automotive stuff anymore. To hard to keep up with different size stones pilots etc. For small engine stuff I 'd go with Newway system.
 
Valves and valve seats about mid 1970s on most cars got harder with the unleaded gasoline's being marketed. Ford Ns had the hard exhaust seats in the 1930s. Lead gas engines used a hard cast iron seat insert and some small engines made a seat directly into block or head casting- and a metal cutter could dress them fairly good. Stellite or similar seats became more common 1980 and small engines got the same as cars about that time in the mid grade and above markets. The new cutters now advertise tungsten-carbide teeth, some of the new stones have a artificial diamond coating. Old tractors other than the Ford Ns made before about 1980 likely to have the older iron seats and no stainless steel valves if not previously rebuilt so the older equipment will work as good as it was intended. If it was rebuilt in past 30 years- might have gotten the upgraded seats with Stellite or nickel/iron installed. Stellite is a 'tool steel' developed 1920s/1930s meant to be used to cut hot iron stock and steel bar, etc. Ford used it for exhaust valves in truck engines and the N tractor series sidevalves- the exhaust valve wear and heating problems were known from the model T days, early V8 days. LP gas engines used the Stellite valves also- the unleaded gas engine production started with the existing LP gas valve seats and nickeled valves that were the industry standard at the time and have gotten harder as years went by and emissions standards got leaner, engine ran hotter. Use the new unleaded gas in old leaded gas engines and be prepared to adjust valves at 1/2 the old interval, eventually replace seats worn down by a also worn thin valve that might not be able to get a thick enough margin on edge after grinding- razor edge gets hot and preignition/knocking likely and hot spots burn through edge so loss of compression occurs. Sometimes this is done for restoration for minimal parade use only for the engines that don't have replacement valves and seats available and a custom parts set is too expensive for customer. 100:1 2 stroke oil in the unleaded gas will help some maybe- is the recommendation in Welch's (?) old iron book and the old Harley WLs use it when going to rallies. RN
 

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