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OT ? about a Type 24/Type Zhongzheng rifle

J

jCarroll

Well-known Member
Location
mid-Ohio
I recently acquired one of these rifles, a Type 1, but with no ammo.
Local gunstore says because the cartridge is 8mm, and classified as a military round, they can't order ammo.

Some exists from private hands, but I'm not sure what to buy, because ....
It's 8x57mm IS or 7.92x57mm Mauser, except
many rifles have been bored (or more deeply rifled) to .323",
and originally used a rimless cartridge.

I'm willing to "go to school" on what I need to buy, or just hear the answer.

Thx for the help.
 
Your going to have to figure out what your rifle barrel is chambered for. If it is still original then you can use the 7.92x57 ammo and be fine. You may have to load your own shells but you can load them. IF it is made for the rimmed style of shells they your more than likely going to have to change the barrel.

My brother-in-law has one and he uses the 7.92x57 ammo but he has owned it for over 25 years and he bought the loading equipment years ago. The rifle is nothing special as it will fire about the same as a 30.06 as far as hunting rifles go.
 
The 8MM by 57 is easy to find but I have a rifle that uses the Styer round which is 8MMX54 and well in 35 years I have yet to find any round for it
 
When dealing with old military rifles, it's best to be certain what you have. It's not uncommon to encounter rifles that have been rechambered for a different cartridge than the original, for example 8mm-06. You can take a chamber cast using Cerrosafe to be absolutely certain, but if 8x57 brass isn't loose in the chamber it probably hasn't been re-chambered.

As for the bore, you can slug the bore with a soft lead slug to verify the actual rifling diameter. If it's .323, you're in luck because 8x57 Mauser ammo is readily available. But if it's .318, you'll find ammo to be quite scarce, and .318 diameter bullets for handloading aren't readily available, either.

If the information on the Wikipedia page is correct, your rifle should be chambered in 7.92x57 IS, which has the .323 bullet and is the same cartridge commonly known as "8mm Mauser" or 8x57.
 
(quoted from post at 00:39:01 08/19/15) The 8MM by 57 is easy to find but I have a rifle that uses the Styer round which is 8MMX54 and well in 35 years I have yet to find any round for it
Click to expand...

Old, here's your 8X56R ammo-http://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist/ammo-shooting/rifle-ammo/8x56r-ammo?d=121&c=96&s=956
 
(quoted from post at 21:01:14 08/18/15) I recently acquired one of these rifles, a Type 1, but with no ammo.
Local gunstore says because the cartridge is 8mm, and classified as a military round, they can't order ammo.

Some exists from private hands, but I'm not sure what to buy, because ....
It's 8x57mm IS or 7.92x57mm Mauser, except
many rifles have been bored (or more deeply rifled) to .323",
and originally used a rimless cartridge.

I'm willing to "go to school" on what I need to buy, or just hear the answer.

Thx for the help.
Click to expand...

The 8mm Mauser/8x57/8x57IS nominal groove depth is .323. There was an earlier version of the 8x57 that had a groove depth of .318. Standard 8x57 ammo is rimless and is available from all the major manufactuers and should not be hard to find at all. I don;t have any clue what your dealer is talking about since 223, 308, 30-06, 45 ACP are all "military calibers" and readily available and legal to own.
 
8x54? if it is steyr.. is it an m95.. if it is.. it uses commonly available 8x56r the early version of the m95 used 8x50r. try finding that one. :)
 
what country are you in?

I know some have a prohibition on military calibers.

But in general, your chinese mauser would be in common 8mm mauser. 8x57 sometimes marked with an I or J and with an S for the .323 bore. also seen as 7,92 etc.

clean it up.. or have a gunsmith clean it up.. if you are unsure of the chambering, a chember cast can be done.. or fit a loose round to see how it feels.

check headspace.. etc.

post some pics.
 
Reason I say 8X54 is the Russian 7.62X54 fit in it just fine and if I got the dies for it I could neck them up and be able to shoot that Steyr but the bras is costly for the 7.62X54
 
Thtas odd my son gets that catalog all the time and has not seen it in it guess I'll have to grab a couple of those catalogs and look for my self
 
Its not good to try to shoot 762x54r in an 8x56r. 8x56r ammo is available.

762x54r brass isn't that bad even I buying commercial and using it once before resizing.

Could also fire form it.
 
The Type 24 came in two versions, original was Type 1, a later version with a crooked bolt and shorter barrel was Type 2.

I was born and live in the state which has had the most presidents.

Don't know how to post photos.
 
(quoted from post at 12:51:01 08/19/15) Reason I say 8X54 is the Russian 7.62X54 fit in it just fine and if I got the dies for it I could neck them up and be able to shoot that Steyr but the bras is costly for the 7.62X54
Click to expand...

Old, 7.62 Russian is too small to make into 8X56R. The rims wrong, the base diameter is wrong. it's too short. You can try blowing out russian brass but it's an involved process with a surety of a mess of poor results. You can buy 100 rounds of brand new, proper, high quality 8X56R brass for about $76.00 http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/12658

7.62 Russian brass from the same maker and dealer runs about $50.00 @100. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/12651

100 pieces of 8X56R brass would last you a lifetime.

BTW- the proper bullet for an 8X56R is going to be .330-.331 diameter. Standard 8mm won't work for beans.
 
ok.. your type 1/2 comment was for the subtype of the type 24.

reason I ask is there is a type 1 japanese/italian rifle too. :)

that SHOULD be common 8mm mauser.

I'd have it checked over before us.. and I'd use it with commercial 8mm mauser as commercial stuff is loaded down by liability fearing companies, knowing people are using it in old guns.. vs say.. hot milsurp.

Anyway.. get it checked.. the 'smith will make sure the reciever locking lugs and bolt look good, no cracks, bore ok ( safe ) to shoot vs plugged or relined and rechambered. head space check it.. etc.

'smith can also look for signs of repair or damage like welding, or ringed bbls or bulges..e tc.

I have milsurps I will shoot, and ones I won't.

Mausers are among the best IMHO.. but the chinese mausers would be on the butte end of that list due to the condition I see most of them in.

I'd shoot a 93 turk conversion to 8mm before a hanyang etc..
 
Shoot this styer has been on the wall for 2 decades or more. I have never fired it and with the straight pull bolt not sure I would want to fire it. It has no import marks on it so I know it is a WW-2 bring back and has the U.S.A. flag in it barrel since I know it has killed at least one if not many U.S. Military personal
 
I have never fired the 7.62X54 out of the styer but found it seems to fit well. Matter of fact i have NEVER fired the styer I have since I have never found any ammo for it in the 30 plus years I have had it. It also has no import marks ad from what I can tell is a WW-2 bring back that has killed some of our military in WW2
 
Funny I have NEVER sen it in there catalog and I have been getting them for decades. Guess I just have not looked in the right place. But I have also never seen any ammo listed the fit the Styer straight pull bolt rifle
 
> since I know it has killed at least one if not many U.S. Military personal [sic]

Let me guess: You also have the gun Bob Ford used to kill Jesse James.
 
(quoted from post at 22:42:53 08/19/15) Shoot this styer has been on the wall for 2 decades or more. I have never fired it and with the straight pull bolt not sure I would want to fire it.
Click to expand...

The Steyr is perfectly safe to use with factory level ammo. Take a look at how it works and you'll see it's going to take a lot to get the bolt to unlock.
 
yup.. steyr m95 eats ( usually ) 8x56r and early ones, 8x50r mannlicher ( not 8x50r lebel, different cartridges ).
 
NO. Think about ti this is a military bring back as in some one picked it up out of the battle filed and carried it home with them so very likely to have been used my a German Solder to shoot U.S. solders. I also have a Russian hand gun that was a bring back form WW2
 
Old Steyr M95 was 8x56r in Austrian service and some Hungarian. Problem with many old patterns was the WW2 German army 'standardization' to 8x57 and M95 Steyrs were made after about 1939 or 1940 in 8x57 and some earlier made ones needing barrel service were rebarreled in 8x57. Waffenamt stamp and a S on barrel usually but not always on 8x57 barrels. Danish Krags made 1940 to 1944 also 8x57, Italian M38s with a 43 stamp also 8x57. Chamber cast or gauging, barrel slugging to be sure needed for some- the expected markings missed on lots of refurbished 'foreign' arms during WW2 and post war issues to various countries can make things trickier- the 30-06 rechambers/rebarrels and the 1960s rechamber/rebarrel to .308/7.62NATO in couple different pressure loads make collecting interesting and shooting one a adventure at times. RN
 
> this is a military bring back as in some one picked it up out of the battle filed and carried it home with them so very likely to have been used my a German Solder to shoot U.S. solders.

WHO picked it up and in WHAT battlefield?

Few if any Steyrs were ever deployed to front-line Axis troops in WWII, so it's highly unlikely it was ever fired in anger, at least in the Second World War. As for your unsubstantiated claim it was used to kill GIs, that's ludicrous.

But enough about your war relic. Tell us about Bob Ford's pistol! Is it in good condition?
 
Now see your just plan out and out getting mean and there is no call for this type of thing in a post.
 
Ah, lighten up. You hijacked this thread so you could talk about your Steyr, a gun that has almost nothing in common with the original poster's Chinese Mauser. Then you get huffy when I have a little fun with some of your more outlandish statements. If you can't stand a little ribbing, it's best not to post.
 
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