cigerettes

not really a tool,but sort of related to a post I Read below about getting old,,,a really good friend of mine here in nj smokes,,,he needs to quit. Being I go to PA,,and the smokes are 10 a carton cheaper there than in nj,he asks me to get one now and then.I Give him the same lecture on smoking he gets from everyone,,then says if I Dont get them he buys them anyway,,,,,,sure wish he would quit,,I Dont like purchasing nails for his coffin

I stopped and started many times over the years. I finally quit for good about four years ago. I finally got the wife to quit three ago. She uses those electronic things full of chemicals, so I am still not happy but it is something. I understand the addiction - some folks have an addictive personality. I am just tighter than my personality is strong. They were getting expensive!

My wife is in the same boat. I quit smoking 12 years ago, she finally did two years ago but has a electronic smoke hanging around her neck.

When you cross over the state line from Maryland into Virginia the first store you come to will have a huge inventory of Cigarettes because the tax is so high in MD.I've never seen the attraction of cigarettes,don't get you high and makes everything taste terrible.The thing I really can't stand is chewing tobacco about the most nasty habit there is for sure,rather be around a smoker than a chewer or snuffer.

I quit about 50 years ago when I found myself opening the 3rd pack in a day. Imagine how many dollars I would have burned up if I had kept smoking? 'Course, I wouldn't have lived this long if I hadn't quit.

About 10 years ago, I used to work with two guys who were heavy smokers. Instead of buying them from the local grocery or discount store, they would purchase them through the mail by the pickup load. I think they told me that they got them from some Indian casino from New York. Anyway, one time after work, I went to the local post office (population ~100), and they had their pickup backed up to the post office and it literally filled the entire box of their full-sized pickup. The postmaster later told me that they had to bring the smokes to the post office with a larger truck because they took up so much more volume than the normal daily volume. I've been reading on the news that if you try to purchase something like that today, you get a tax bill sent to you.
Buying smokes by the pickup load? Yea, those guys were really saving money. LOL!

My father died at 52 never having seen his first grandchild, he had lung cancer from smoking. My uncle died at 52 from a massive heart attack, he was a heavy smoker. My sister in law may have to drag around an O2 bottle from many years of smoking. My mother outlived her brother and sister by 15 and 20 years, they smoked and she did not. My wife's father died at 62 and was a heavy smoker. I quit in my 20s well over 40 years ago.

Smoking is stupid.

Same here; when they got up to 50 cents a pack, I said "That's it!" Forty years and counting.

not much of a friend if you buy themn anyway, do you buy drunks drinks?

I have known many people who smoked and many lived to be pretty old. My dad smoked till he was in his 70s and died at the age of 86 but not because of his smoking. .I quit smoking about 4 or so years ago when the price went up to $4 a pack. But it is like every thing else we will all died at some point in time and be it smokes or be it the air we breath it will get us. Had a friend who died a few years back. He had lung cancer and had smoked for years. Not sure if the cancer got him or not but he was in his 90s. He was the guy who gave me my 44mag that is worth a lot of $$ due to its serial number

they will quit when they want to ,,.. that's how I did it ,I enjoy a good smoke BUT ,. I would much rather breath ,,. after pop died at age 93 ,, i smoked pipe for a yr , because my sara smoked , we would smoke together ,.I got sik ,bad cough ,.. still get breathing troubles , and am easily susceptible to colds ,,. I have noticed heavy smokers seem to do ok until their 50s ,,, then they slow on all activities , no stamina ,, then by age 70 their life goes into a real tailspin of all sorts of health problems ,, and they are luky to see their 80s,, by then they REALLY would be luky to be dead their quality of life gots so bad ,,. //// I recall dad smoking a cigar on a sunday afternoon ,, rarely smoked one or 2 thru the week ,, said it helped his digestion ,,,and I will concur ,, at least from my bloodline ... perhaps everything in moderation is the key ..

Everyone quits eventually. Actually quitting is easy, I did it a number of times. I found that not starting again is the real difficult part.

I quit about 30 years ago after watching my neighbor get a quadruple bypass. I was smoking less than a pack a day at that point and it was just the right time I guess.

Up to you how you want to handle the friend's request. You could take him a carton and take 2 packs out. Tell him that he can get the same deal where he lives by simply cutting back. It may be a non-confrontational way to show him that you don't endorse his habit and that he has put you in an uncomfortable spot. May be a good way to find out how much of a friend he really is.

Whatever you choose, there's no single right answer. Best of luck.

Larry;

There's not an easy answer in that situation. If your friend had to smoke less when he couldn't get cheaper cigarettes, then being an occasional source of cheaper cigarettes for him would clearly be contributing to his habit. Same thing if he smoked at a steady rate all the time except when he had cheaper cigarettes, at which time he would increase the rate. But most long time smokers smoke at a fairly constant rate, and that rate won't change much based on the cost of the cigarettes. If you look at it that way, then what you're doing is saving your friend some money---not a bad thing.

There is one slight, probably incalculable, aspect to the equation. Some people---even some here who have already responded to your posting---quit mainly because the overall cost becomes too great. You would have to be certain somehow that your friend would never quit smoking because of the expense to be totally free of any complicity in his habit. If you save him some money on cigarettes sometimes, and there's some slight possibility that he might quit if the dollar cost suddenly struck him as too high, then to that extent, however slight, you are contributing to his problem.

An even more incalculable aspect is the moral force of your approval or disapproval. By buying cigarettes for him, even if you make it clear that you deplore this habit, you are offering an amount of support that is equivalent to the difference between buying cigarettes for him and refusing to do so.

I mean no criticism by any of this. It's complicated, and there are undoubtedly factors I haven't considered, as well as completely different ways of looking at the matter. I have a friend in Seattle who is a talented artist, and a chain smoker, and lives on less money than you would believe possible. I have considered buying cheaper cigarettes for him because there are reservation smoke shops all around where I live. I have the same misgivings about it that you do.

Stan

Dixie smoked from when she was 18 until we were married 13 years ago. She was diagnosed with COPD in January when I took her to the emergency room because she couldn't get enough breath to talk. She now takes breathing treatments four times a day to keep her air way open. Most that have COPD will have to go on full time oxygen as the it progresses. Heart and cancer is not the only effects caused by smoking. Some get by without any seemingly problems but most don't.

Dick;

My mother-in-law was diagnosed with COPD more than ten years before she died. She clearly had it pretty bad for a long time before that, but wouldn't go to doctors because of her religious beliefs. It was horrible. She was almost totally incapacitated for years before the end. She couldn't brush her teeth without becoming so winded that she would almost pass out. This was a woman who wasn't carrying an extra ounce on her body. She had been a heavy smoker for about 40 years before she quit. Cigarettes were her only vice, but they were a bad one.

Stan

I'm going to go against the grain here, and say smoking may not be the greatest thing you can do, but it is rarely the ONLY thing that kills people who do it.

Cases in point. My Dad is nearing 70, and has smoked, or chewed, nearly everyday since he was a teenager, growing up on his Grandpa's tobacco farm. He has never had any major medical problems, even those usually associated with smoking.

My Mom smoked, and has COPD, but the doctor told flat out told her that it was NOT associated with her smoking. Instead she had other medical problems related to lung function that caused the problems. Yes, smoking didn't help, but it was not the cause.

My Grandma never smoked, nor dank a day in her life, and lived into her late 70's until basically dying of 'old age'. Again, she never had any of the 'deadly' vices but still only made it until her 70's.

Lastly, think about old George Burns, the comedian. He smoked cigars, drank, womanized, and generally lived a devil-may-care lifestyle. That man lived to be 100 years old. Given the 'smoking kills' mantra, why did he not die 30, 40, 50, or more years before he did, especially when you factor the drinking into the equation also.

With all of that said, it becomes obvious to me that there are far more things involved with someone's health, smoker or not, drinker or not, that contribute to the length of their life.

If you don't like it don't do it. Your call. Just don't have the illusion that you can have an effect on his life span. That was written down long ago.

Your not doing anything wrong, your just picking up a legal item for a friend to save him a few bucks. His decision to smoke is no different than anyone else's decision to live as they choose and eat what they choose, to exercise or not etc., no one can control another grown persons life choices. Society is becoming eat up with scolds and busy bodies, your just doing a friend a favor.

My question is what does anyone get out of smoking in the first place? And almost everyone
I know that smokes says they wish they could quit.BTW a smoker is
7X more likely to get lung cancer than a non smoker.

I think most will agree, substances, chemicals and such do effect people in a wide range of ways. Some may get away with a habit such as this, many won't and I have seen a bunch that succumbed to it. 2 come to mind right now, my neighbor who passed Feb 15th of this year, and a long time friend, neighbor, co-worker whose son is a long time great friend. Both of their demises were directly attributable to cigarette smoke. My neighbor on this lane, suffered from cardio problems directly caused by it. He just retired because of health reasons, just filed for social security, never got a dime of it. He had a pulmonary embolism at some point prior, so they had him on blood thinners, the sunday morning he passed, he had another event, dropped where he stood, opened up something and bled out on the floor, his wife came home from attending to her elderly mother to find him in a pool of blood. The other, had a respiratory event, he could not recover from, his wife called his son from work, paramedics, they watched him pass away, he did have a do not resuscitate order, that was that. Both his wife and son were devastated, but they knew it was inevitable. He was of the same cloth as you and likely your dad, he was a navy man, an extremely talented mechanic, body man who knew lead work, all the welding processes,and I mean all of them. He'd work in gasoline tankers, and knew all the old school techniques of body work. I worked with him for a local site contractor, he repaired heavy equipment and trucks and just about anything for that matter + the high end body work, and he was a talented artist, did all the hand painted lettering of trucks he could get, his abilities went far beyond what he exhibited. Pall Mall non filters were his brand, his last days were sitting in a chair, with a fish like expression on his face as he gasped for air. My last memory of him as I cut the grass across the road as he watched. Like you said, there had to be other factors, but the main one was cigarettes, as that was a constant in his life more than the different work he did. He owned a shop for many years but also did a lot of other things, but always smoked. He'd never stop for coffee when we were hauling, but sure as heck would to get a pack of smokes, telling me "don't tell my wife" she knew all along!

My point is, its playing roulette with your health, all the carcinogens, chemicals, now fire retardant, lets not forget polonium 210 which is interesting given its in modern cigarette tobacco and how that actually happens, really odd but it does. We cannot deny that whether its genetics that allows some to get away with it, or that even 2nd hand smoke sets the stage for pre-cancerous cells, there is NOTHING good about it, whether you can see it or its covered up.

One friend smokes sparingly, buys tobacco from a smoke shop, rolls his own, uses filters, but sometimes he does not. There is a distinct difference between commercially sold tobacco and what he smokes, you can smell the difference. I don't smoke, never did. On a rare occasion I do like a fine cigar, but even then it makes your mouth and tongue taste like it, like til the next day LOL! I rolled up what he smokes once, and smoked it like a cigar, not inhaling, it was enjoyable in that way, but I could not smoke a pack of those a day, week or month. Don't interest me, but I was surprised at the difference, being like a smooth cigar. No way I could even tolerate a commercial product, I honestly don't know how that is enjoyable. If you were to grow your own and process your own tobacco, tell me, (your dad would have to know) you can't even compare the 2 together can you? I would agree moderation is best, given most have an undesirable habit of some sort, what they sell is addicting and they've known of the consequences for 51 years or more by now. So being addictive, be it associated with commercial tobacco or just tobacco itself, there is no moderation, its excess and too much of anything is usually never a good thing. Information I've read about this states that 2nd hand smoke is harmful by each single exposure, its documented, people with this habit far exceed 2nd hand levels, daily for years and wonder why they become terminally ill ???

My mother smoked while pregnant, I was premature and underweight, who knows what else, she knew it was not good, her dad did the artwork for a cancer society campaign, he was a commercial artist for the state commerce department, he made stickers, skull with cigarettes as the cross bones, "cancer sticks" and its copyrighted to this day, what he created. He smoked like a feign, ended up with high blood pressure, a direct cause of smoking, he just retired and went on his first vacation, but did not take his meds, had a stroke, they found him on the kitchen floor, he lived another 6 years half paralyzed. I spent a childhood visiting him, first in the VA and then other places, then watched him pass. No sane mother to be would indulge in cigarettes or alcohol today. For every one that gets away with it, as I see things,(opinion LOL we all have one LOL !) several do not. Those kinds of odds speak for themselves. Sure I've known a few George Burns as well, they are rare though.

If you have never smoked you will never understand why a person smokes in the first place. To explain it would also be hard to do but I know when I started I was in the navy so had lots of time on my hands to do nothing so it gave a person something to do while sitting and being bored

Larry, he won't quit unless he wants to, some will defend this habit until they gag into the coffin, that's just how it is. I have one in my family, its like talking to a wall, there comes a point where you just walk away, whatever is in cigarettes that is addictive, puts a grip on people that is entirely hard to break. My mother is one, she's healthy, goes to the gym, but looks 100 years old and her mind has faded from sitting in a smoke filled room for hours every day for as long as I can remember. I've washed my hands of it, and I'm not one to give up easily on anything.

Your just doing him a favor as was said below, you don't someone else will, my mother gets a ride to Vermont for the same reason, the price difference. I went off on this person once, I mean way off for doing this, never made a difference, can't waste my time with it anymore, people want to be fools, its their right.

M-Man;

nnalert believe that, too.

In my experience, it's one of those things that make absolutely no difference. You say don't think you can do anything to effect your life span. If, in response, I say, what about killing yourself? You say, then that's what was predetermined. Net result: Exactly the same whether we're living according to a predetermined script or life is totally random.

Your way makes over a billion of the earth's inhabitants fall on their knees facing Mecca five times a day to pray, and the drivers in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia the worst in the world (nothing to lose---it's all Allah's will). The other way, the belief that we live in a random universe, makes some people try to be careful. Do you actually live every moment of you life as if your actions have no consequences? My guess is that you don't.

Stan

Billy;

Your postings are almost always a good read---really enjoyable. (Sometimes they're purely technical on a subject that doesn't concern me---but never badly written.) This one is a gem. Thanks. And, keep it up.

Stan

Traditional Farmer;

I've got to say I'm with old on this one. I quit smoking more than thirty years ago, and I consider it one of the best things I've ever done. To be honest about it, though, I loved smoking. If I found out tomorrow that I had a terminal illness and it was 100% certain that I only had a short time to live, one of the first things I'd do would be to buy myself a pack of Camels. I was a heavy drinker for far more years than I smoked tobacco, but I don't miss alcohol nearly as much as I miss tobacco. Life is strange.

Stan

I do not smoke and never have. I even hate the smell and even outside I can smell the smoke.
I don't worry about the person smoking, I worry about the person drinking!
Did smoking kill George Burns?

old hit it on the head, unless you were addicted you cant understand it. An example I use is if you havent eaten in 3 days and havent had a smoke in 5 or 6 hrs and you are presented with your favorite meal and a smoke you would smoke the cig before you ate. "You have to want to quit yourself" no prying or scare tactics will work.

Stan;
I apologize if I have offended you by stating a simple biblical fact. I won't apologize for believing the bible is true. It's your choice what you believe.

I guess you run stop signs and walk out in the street without looking?

I hope all of you continue to support friends and family who smoke. I hope I have at least influnced some people to quit. A few have thanked me so I guess it's helped. For me,cost had nothing to do with quiting. The main reason was in hopes of giving myself a little more time with the grandkids. I never talk to anyone about stopping unless I know what they value most in life. This was once told as a true story. Man's friend who happed to be a doctor had cryed cussed and begged him to stop for his own benifit. Nothing worked until he casually mentioned that secound hand smoke was very hard on dogs. You guesed it,the guy stopped smoking to protect his beloved companion. Keep that in mind if you want to help. Predestination over self disipline and free will???? ,I pity the fools.

M-MAN;

No need to apologize. I respect your right to believe whatever you want.

Stan

I am the same way, if I was bad sick or if anything ever happened to my Wife I would go back to burning red winstons by the deck. I quit several years ago because regardless of who is right or wrong about the cancer connection I know cigarettes take your breath away and if a person ever ends up on the oxygen tank then the games over.

LAA, you've got that right.

Stan

There are a few George Burns out there. There are a lot of Marlboro men out there. I may have spelled the cigarette brand wrong.
My cousin died from lung cancer at 50, his son died from lung cancer at 37. His mother said he smoked like a chimney.
I have never seen the glamour in some one smoking, especially women. Just my two cent's worth

I've always said the brain trys to kill the body. I don't care is it smoking, drinking, drugs, over eating, the brain tells the body what to do that isn't good for the body.

My brain tells my body to keep working and at the end of the day my body hurts.

So true. We are the only spieces that can make a vice out of anything, even our basic biological needs. Original sin..

Failure to keep ones mind in control.

What I don't get is how anybody can AFFORD to smoke.

I know guys spending over $500 a month just for a two pack a day habit.

Then you figure that most of that smoking is done in a bar - then add to that a 1-2 joint a day dope habit - they're spending well over $1000 a month on stuff that's only going to kill them.

I'm all for a few beers and a few bad habits, but it can get so crazy. I've lost a lot friends to the harder drugs, but even with just butts and alcohol, it's sad to see any kind of addiction take it's toll on people you care about.

Aside from the health aspect, they're lives would just be so different if they stopped all that and spent that money more wisely. Not like they're rich to begin with - an extra $1000 a month would be like winning the lottery to them.

But - to each his own. They're some of my best friends, they understand the logical argument against it, but they just don't care enough to stop.

They're still great people, and I guess that's all the really matters in this world when you get down to it.

I was a heavy smoker for 32 years, 2packs a day when I quit. The reason I quit was we bought a farm, which I loved, and realized unless I quit smoking I wouldn't live long enough to enjoy it. I had a terrible cough and that pushed me into quitting, hardest thing I ever did in my life. Every time I smelled a cigarette for a good ten years after I quit, I had the urge. Anyhow that was back in '77 when I quit. I do have COPD, but it doesn't bother me much. I'm going on 83 this year and can still work outside for a few hours each day, not too bad, for an old codger. BTW, seems odd, but I haven't noticed a person smoking a pipe in a long time. Anyone else notice any pipe smokers around?

When external_link slipped in a Federal 80 cent a pack tax that was my incentive, 5 years ago and I wasn't about to let the executive branch tax me.
Then a year later the State passed a dollar a pack tax increase. Turns out they lost money and are still losing because of the thousands who quit.

Kind words Stan, ego feeding ones LOL ! I get fired up about this subject, like to help or participate like everyone else here. In reality, this is what happens when I sit at my desk for lunch and take too long of a break! I enjoy the process of writing, whether I am any good at it or not.... that is debatable LOL !

Not sarcastic about your post at all, but how do you think God deals with smokers.
Also, how are former smokers dealt with. If it matters, I quit about 10 years using nicotine gum.

Now that you mention it, I haven't seen a pipe smoker for a while.

My father was a life long pipe smoker until he developed cancer of the throat at age 72. They got the cancer, but they had to remove his voice box in the process. He spent the last 14 years of his life holding an electronic gadget next to this throat to talk. It was a mechanical sound, but at least he could communicate.

I'm a non smoker and am sure I would be dead now if I had smoked. Due to the high cost of cigs I have never understood why smokers don't grow their own tobacco, it's not rocket science.

KEH

Guess I was one of the "lucky" ones....I actually TRIED to start smoking when I was around 19....bought a carton of smokes..gagged through a pack or two...ended up giving the rest away to a friend who smoked.

However....I've chewed Copenhagen since I was about 14....quit for a year once in my 20's(I'll be 48 this year). Quitting chewing was one of the toughest things I've ever done. One of the stupidest things I've ever done was to start chewing again. Read once that quitting chewing was tougher than quitting smoking...I won't say it is since I haven't done both.

I guess the positive side is that I couldn't handle smoking. Secondhand chew doesn't affect people around me quite as much.

I was told when my mom was pregnant in 1956 she was told to start smoking it would help relax her times have changed. I was wondering if it's the tobacco or additives . Having a nice chat with a lady once she mentioned how tobacco has additives to keep from loosing the cherry I mentioned how a lot of father's would like to use that on there daughters good thing she had a sense of humor !
Also as time's change its odd how the government had tobacco subsides for land and the Marlboro man was OK and now the government is paying for anti smoking campaign and if I remember right at one time the government paid for both at the same time

Your dilemma reminds me of a personal family situation. I became POA for a spinster aunt. We were always close but as she aged my wife and I gradually did more and more for her. Well the day came she could not drive or get around. In her eighties she quit smoking because we would not buy her cigerettes. God Bless her we were both stubborn Germans.

So your bragging about denying an old woman her only pleasure in life in her final months?

Having quit in the summer of 2nd grade(1959) after being knocked off my tricycle while trying to inhale, I became one of the biggest smoke haters known to man. Cigs cost us 30-35 cents (Winston). Sad our gov't would rather receive $ from the taxes than cheaper health costs and more productivity from the workforce. I could never be a politician.