Unpleasant plumbing problem

Stan in Oly, WA

Well-known Member
The toilet in my main bathroom plugs up to the point of near overflow following a flush about once a month, or three times in two months. I can always get it flowing nearly normally again using one of those plungers that looks like an upside down cartoon bee hive. I know that to fix it I'm going to have to remove the toilet and run at least 50' of drain auger down it. What I can't do is visualize the problem.

It started about two years ago immediately after some out of town friends visited and their 14 year old son spent a long time in the bathroom. I'm speculating, but here's what I think happened. The boy used the toilet before noticing that there was no toilet paper. Being too shy to call for assistance, he improvised. My guess is that he used a wash cloth, hand towel, or maybe his underpants. Then, being terribly embarrassed by anything having to do with bodily functions, as most young teenagers are, he hid the evidence by flushing it down the toilet. The problem first presented itself the first time one of us flushed the toilet after our friends had left. I used the plunger to clear the problem, except that it didn't actually clear it---it just made it enough better that the toilet would flush. It wasn't until the following morning that I realized that I had missed what was probably my one opportunity to actually solve the problem by using a toilet auger rather than a plunger. I used it then, but I suspect that the force of the plunger had moved the obstruction out of reach of the 6' auger.

Now, we start getting warnings a few days in advance that there's going to be a problem. The water level rises noticeably high in the bowl after most flushes. If I'm ambitious I grab the plunger and I get to use it with nice clear water. If I'm lazy, which is getting to be more normal, I don't do anything until there's a blockage, and then the procedure is really unpleasant.

What I haven't been able to come up with is an explanation for why this happens occasionally instead of all the time.

Stan
 
took care of park restrooms for a while. one intermittent problem was found to be a kids little plastic toy that was flushed and would not go through trap, it would catch paper and plug if larger amounts of paper used. removed near new fixture for replacement and saw wedged item, removed and reinstalled. second one was a flat western belt buckle that would float up when flushed, happened to see it float back one day, removed. end of problem
 
Sounds like a partial obstruction, something is solidly lodged that collects paper and anything else passing by, until it collects enough to block the pipe. Once you plunger it, the collected whatever is soft enough to be blown on by, then the process starts over.

If there is a clean out port outside, rent a powered snake. That should clear it. If no clean out, sometimes it can be snaked from a roof vent.

Not fun any way it's done!
 
My brother was always rather aggressive with his use of the toilet paper. It would plug every so often. We soon realized the paper was catching on the rough edge of the sawed PVC pipe where it entered the septic tank. We would get to take the lid off and go fishing with a coat hanger.

Are you on a septic tank? I envision sending a garden hose down the toilet with it turned up full blast. Another unlucky person stands at the septic tank with a pitchfork at the inlet to catch the offending blockage as it enters the tank.

If you are on a city line I suppose you just get it to the main line and then it is someone else's problem.
 
Stan,

Before you spend too much on the problem, try a small toilet auger. There may be a pencil or pen lodged in the toilet trap. They're available at most hardware stores.
 
Jake,

I did use a 6' toilet auger the morning after what I believe to be the date the obstruction occurred. I suspect that it would have resolved the issue if it had been the first thing I used, but I think my plunger moved the obstruction beyond the auger's six foot reach.

Stan
 
Folks had a problem like that and ended up calling one of these guys that has a Roto Rooter. It cleaned out everything to the septic tank. We spent hours tring to open it up and that guy had it open in about 45 minutes from the time he came till he left .
 
Steve;

I recently had to deal with what turned out to be the worst plumbing obstruction I've ever encountered. It was in a rental house. It defied a 25' manual drain auger, and then a 50' power auger. I finally cleared it with a 100' power auger which I didn't initially think would even fit in the bathroom--a huge thing. The only reasonable access was to pull the toilet and go through the drain at floor level. I can hardly tell you how gratifying it was when the cutter end on the cable broke through the obstruction and the sucking sound, more than fifty feet away, obviously, was so loud that the renter was able to hear it two rooms away.

Stan
 
There is another possibility; how old is the toilet? I had one that was in the house for 50 years. Turned out that calcium deposits in the siphon (the part that blasts water into the trap to start things going) cut down the flow. Put one of those American Standard Champion 4 toilets in and it could take your leg off if you're not careful.
 
Leroy,

I think I used up my one shot at an easy happy ending when I used a plunger rather than an auger to unblock it the first time. I ought to start a file of events where I knew enough to do it right the first time, but decided to do something else instead.

Stan
 
It is old, and scale did cause a blockage inducing situation once before, but I descaled it thoroughly a few years ago. I'm pretty sure my hypothesis is close to being some form of the current problem this time.

Stan
 
I had this happen dozens of times in childcare buildings. The object is still inside the toilet because you cannot have any effect on a blockage in the main line useing a plunger. Get the bowl clean then dip/sponge water out of bowl. Use a flashlight and inspection mirror to view trap in toilet. Use a bent wire cloths hanger to fish object out. Seems like a closet auger would pull it out but I've tried dozens of times and rarely snaged it with the auger. On the outside chance you can't see it with the flashlight and mirror,pull the toilet so you can look from other direction. If you need more evidence,here's a test that confirms the blockage is in toilet. After you have it flushing clean water as well as possible,put a huge wad of toilet paper in and flush. The back-up happens soon as paper disapears.
 
Could maybe a granny rag got caught in the trap in the stool its self. Back in the 1960's I worked in a plant with 300 women. It ended up my job to remove a stool on a regular basis to drag one out from the bottom of the stool. Signs all over the restroom telling them to do not flush granny rags.
 
Good explanation. I'm going to try the intentional blockage test with some rags tied together loosely, and secured with a cord so that I can get them back out. Using paper and letting go of it would probably be safer, but I resist the idea of putting anything through the toilet that will have to dissolve and be flushed away over time. I'm not totally convinced by your contention that a plunger could only work with a blockage within the toilet itself. I realize that as soon as you get to the vertical stack, the force of the jet of water encounters less resistance upward against air than downward against a column of standing (blocked) water. But the impulse of the water jet caused by the plunger might still have some force through the water in the sewer pipe, possibly enough to dislodge a soft obstruction such as dissolving toilet paper, etc. It's theoretical at this point, but I ought to get some additional evidence by running the test you suggested. Thanks.

Stan
 
Stan, i would pull the toilet and run a power auger thru it with a cutting bit and see if you can clear it out. Also, run the auger down the vent stack from the roof. If the stack is plugged, it can cause a slow flush also . Could be a dead bird in there or the whirly seeds from a maple tree.
 
glennster;

Pulling the toilet and running a power auger down it is my plan. I hadn't thought about running anything down the vent stack from the roof, but that's a good idea, too. Thanks.

Stan
 
You said, "main bathroom", implying another exists. If the other works fine, then obstruction must be before the two merge.
 
Had one like that. Not able to clear blockage even after pulling toilet. Couldn't find blockage from either opening. New toilet worked just fine. Son took old one out in the yard and blasted it with a 12ga shotgun and slugs. Found a Christmas candle about an inch and a half in diameter and five inches long lodged in the top of the trap as far from the ends as possible. My then 4 yr grandson owes me big time!
 
We had something similar happen when my father was alive. Toilet started doing what you are describing. Kept the plunger by the toilet for a long time as it was intermittent. One day he accidently hit the bowl with a heavy wrench(long story) and knocked a chunk out of it. Replaced it with one of those not suppose plug big bowl toilets(great idea).
Threw the old toilet on the loader bucket and busted in pieces. Found a Bic pen with toilet paper around it.
I would rethink the idea about the little kid being responsible.
It took me longer to think about replacing the toilet, then it did to actually do it.
 
That's a good point. The rarely used toilet is upstream from the one with the problem. If I don't get around to trying to fix this before it happens again, I could use the other toilet's flushing capability to test whether the blockage is in this toilet or in the line downstream. There is about 30' of rarely used 4" drain pipe between the two toilets which would provide enough capacity to hold more than one 1.6 gallon flush, but I could take care of that with a five gallon bucket of water.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Stan
 
Siphon and drain all the water out of the commode.
Remove hold-down bolts to free the commode. You will need a new wax ring. New hold-down bolts too.

Before pulling the commode rent a power snake to make sure there's no blockage away from the house,
mine had tree roots. Hal
 
Stan,

This happened to a buddy of mine a few years ago, intermittent clogs/slow drain.

I went over to help him out. Just in case, we bought a new toilet and wax ring.

We removed the toilet and there were no obvious blockages, so we quickly ruled it out.

We poured water from a five gallon bucket to simulate several flushes. Initially the drain pipe was empty, but quickly filled up and was SLOW to drain. Bingo! Clog in the drain line. Even with a large "flush" of 5 gallons of water, there should not be any standing water, ever.

A few minutes later with a auger and we were rewarded with a pretty large hand towel. I am surprised the toilet even flushed at all. I think one his kids was likely to blame...

Anyways, a new was ring later and everything was back to normal.

Tim in Mass
 
This sounds like a perfect application for one of those water-resistant, $15 eBay USB borescopes that were mentioned on here a couple weeks ago.
 
Like others have indicated, I suspect it's something that is caught in the toilet itself. Had similar situations at different times and pulling the toilets I found a toothbrush in one and dental floss (which caught the paper and was twisted around it) that caught on a rough spot in the porcelain in the other. Augers will go right past that type of obstruction and pulling the toilet is the only way to remedy the problem.
 
Tim,

A "petty large hand trowel" wouldn't have been flushed through a toilet so it must have been knocked into the drain hole while the floor was being worked on and the toilet was not installed. It probably happened during the application of the thin-set for floor tile or the adhesive for vinyl flooring. That means the toilet problem existed from whenever the floor was put in the bathroom. I'd say the kids are off the hook on this one. Just my opinion.

Stan
 
For the record, Stan, he said "pretty large hand towel", not trowel.

I'm with the others- take the toilet off, check it out first, then go with the power auger in the drain line if toilet checks out OK.
 
Thanks, Mike. I'm not a fast typist, so I would have saved myself a good five minutes if I had read that right. Personally, I think the story is more interesting my way, but I guess it's best to stick with the facts (unless you're in politics or advertising).

By the way, a small towel or a washcloth is what I suspect the youngster used in lieu of TP and flushed down my toilet which, if correct, would be the source of the problem. A 6' toilet auger didn't snag it, but maybe a long one will.


Stan
 
Hal;

Knowing the procedure with that degree of detail makes it seem as if maybe you've done it a few times. I have, too. If you still have to remove and replace a toilet, or install a new one, once in a while, here's something else that I've found helps. If you've got a flange on the drain so that the hold down bolts go into slots rather than screwing into the subfloor, put nuts on them after you've got them properly positioned. That keeps them from being knocked out of position as you're trying to lower the toilet onto them, and also makes every subsequent removal and replacement easier. Old hold down bolts that are screwed into the flooring are almost always bad, in my experience, but the ones that are held by a slotted flange are often protected by the wax ring and don't need to be changed.

Toilet tricks---not everybody's first choice as a topic of conversation.

Stan
 
stan a handy trick somebody posted here a while back was to place a drinking straw over each toilet hold down bolt before you set the toilet. the long straws will help guide the toilet down on the bolts. i wont take credit for that, but i tried it after i read it and it works really slick. macdonalds straws are wide enough to slip over the bolts.
 
I have a two story home that I had something similar happen last fall to the upstairs toilet, which takes a totally different run entirely than the other two toilets at the opposite end of the house. I figure that something might have fallen down the vent, a squirrel or whatever, couldn't get out and died. We have a septic tank, and I didn't think that it was full beyond grey water at the top, so I had it pumped. That wasn't it. Then I tried to fish it from the roof with a 150' half inch wide fish, and it couldn't get it, but I know it was getting well past the toilet before it bound up. Then I went and rented a power auger with a 100' of 10' extenders, took off the toilet and got it that way. We punched through something bound up in a 4" pipe that went under the floor over to the exterior wall, down it, under about 60' of sidewalk then angled into the septic tank. All are adults in the house, so its not like a little kid flushed a barbie down the toilet, and it was under an oak tree. I'm guessing that something found the vent, and then found the vent, died, and...

Here's a good one. Another house that I owned, we had reroofed, and one of the roofers put his rolled up newspaper into the vent pipe, intending it to just stay there I guess. It didn't. Down it went. We didn't know about it for a year or so when the paper got wet enough during a rain, made the bend and got flushed out to the septic tank, but stopped in the pipe when it hit the baffle in the tank. About half of it was still in the pipe, and about half of it was out into the tank, but lodged against the baffle. Naturally, the septic backed up. I dug up and opened the tank to inspect, and when I did, there was the newspaper blocking the pipe. I got it out, sewage then moved into the tank. A newspaper. A rolled up newspaper doesn't make the bends of a toilet, so that's not how it got there. The only other possibility was the vent pipe. How? Roof was reroofed, my guess was a roofer up on the roof taking a break, convenient holder, and down it went.

Good luck.

Mark
 
One word of caution, when resetting toilet on new seal, even after sitting on it to seat it don't tighten the bolts very tight, you will break the toilet flange. How do you think I know ?
 
Just got done talking to a guy in town the house was built in the 30's they put a camera down it and it turned out to be old clay tile and over time it had gone soft and partly collapsed
 

We had two issues in our main bathroom, a funky toilet that wouldn't flush solids very well and an eventual clog after I put in the new toilet. Tried to run a snake down from the bathroom but with all the twists in the line (old cast iron) it would only go so far. I borrowed a power auger with two 50 ft. cables, run one cable out and hook the next one on, and attacked the problem from the septic tank side. Turns out there are two inlets, the downstairs plumbing runs into one and the upstairs into the other. At about 75 ft. it opened up and has been good since. Spent half a day cleaning up the power auger before I could use it since the owner kept it outside with just the motor and control covered and hadn't used it for years. Found how to put it together and operate it on YouTube. The internet is your friend.
 
I had a similar problem once , our toilets work very differently to yours but the ' stuff ' all ends up in a pipe just the same .
I used a long stainless steel sail cable with a squid jig clamped to the end . A squid jig has thirty odd fish hooks on it and is used not surprisingly for catching squid . After twenty feet and a few turns using a piece of broom handle for a fulcrum I 'fished ' out the plastic cage of a toilet deodorising block filled with unimaginable things .
 

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