Welding rods

Tom in Ga

Member
Is a 6013 rod and a E6013 the same? I use a Lincoln ac welder for patchwork as needed. A friend said I need a 6013 for repairing a bush hog deck. Also how hot to weld it? Deck is 1/8 thick. Thanks for any suggestions, Tommy
 
I found out one way to find out how to weld is to try things you know are wrong and see the effects. This is things like turning the welder too hot or too cold, traveling too fast or too slow, holding the arc too long or too short. It helps to learn to recognize what is wrong.
 
I would be using a 6011 instead of 6013 on thin steel. It is a fast freeze type rod. 6013 on low power will give slag problems unless you are welding vertical up. Run the 6011 1/8 at 90 to 100 amps or a 5/32 at 105.
 
Came across this, it should help you buy the size you need for your job. This is for 6013 rods.
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Your question, "Is a 6013 rod and a E6013 the same?"

Answer, "Yes".

Your question, "How hot to weld it?"

Answer, "Use the rod diameter, converted to decimal equivalent, for a good rule of thumb on amperage setting. If you have a 1/8 inch rod, try an amp setting of 125. (1/8" = .125") That will probably be a little hot, but you can go down from the initial setting."

I use around 100 - 110 amps for an 1/8" 6013.

Folks like to diss the 6013 rod. I've built and repaired all kinds of stuff with 6013. It has a soft arc that is real good for thin material. You can increase the rod angle from vertical for even less penetration on thin stuff.

Granted, other rods are easier to weld with, and better suited for some applications, but the 6013 has a use. There is a big difference in manufacturers - I like the old Fleetweld Lincoln 6013, but hate the Hobart 6013.
 
The E stands for electrode. Technically there's an E in front of the number for every stick electrode but since people know what it is they're talking about, nobody bothers to say it.

6013 is not a bad choice for what you plan to use it for. If the deck is really 1/8" thick, and not too reduced by rust, you'll have an easy time of it. PJH's advice is correct. You might have an easier time using 3/32" rod at about 85 to 95 amps, but that's up to you. Clean the repair location to bright metal if you can. If you can get ahold of some metal that is similar to the metal of the deck to practice on, it won't be a waste of your time. 6013 is easy to weld with but it's notorious for entrapping slag. If you learn how you've got to do it---speed, distance, rod angle, amps---you might save yourself from having to decide whether to grind out the slag and try again, or leave it and hope for the best.

Good luck,

Stan

(By the way, leaving the slag and hoping for the best is the wrong answer.)
 
I am with Teddy52food. I would use 6011 that is the best all position, poor fit, dirty metal rod there is. If the deck is a little thin use 3/32, 6011 rod. Machines vary, I have ran 3/32 6011 at 60 to 75 amps. Have ran it as low as 40 amps on thin stuff. When you run a rod too hot you get excessive splatter. good luck
 
Yes, it's the same. 6013 is "low penetration" rod and will not burn or blow through thin sheet metal like 6011 will. 6011 is "high penetration" and does not work well with sheet metal.
 
I would use the 6013 on no more than 90amp, or a 3/32 rod at 75 to 90amp. Most times a 6011 will burn through on lighter material. You might find spots when you weld that are thinner than 1/8. When that happens you will burn through it. Also varying the arc, angle and speed of travel makes a difference on the penetration.
 
jdemaris here is another opinion of 6011 electrodes. I personally have welded 16 guage with no problem using 3/32 6011 with 40 amps.

Answer to 6011 welding rod question

Multiple pass welds with in the Pipe welding industry are very commonplace. Most pipeline welds are made with multiple passes of 6010 welding rods.

6011 rods are the cousin of 6010 welding rods. Almost identical in mechanical properties but they are designed to run on A/C as well as DC welding current.

I used to work in the Power piping and construction industry where support structures for main steam pipelines would require welds that were just plain huge and took 40 to 50 passes. Typically, 1/8 to 5/32 7018 electrodes were used.

6011 rods are great all purpose rods for general repair and fabrication. A lot of people are not aware that 6011 3/32 welding rods are also available. You can even get 1/16 6011 rods if you go to the welding supply and not Home Depot or the Auto Parts store.

1/16 6011 rods are really useful for 2 things:

1. Welding thin sheet metal, like auto body work. Seriously, they are as good as a flux core 115 volt MIG welder,(if you are pretty good at Stick welding)

2. They are also really good if your Arc welder is a little on the wimpy side. Like an Arc welder that runs on 115 volts. The 1/16 6011 rods start easier and weld sheet metal much easier than the bigger diameter 6011 rods.

Something else that comes to mind is 5/32 6011 rods.

A Lincoln 225 amp buzz box is perfectly capable of burning 5/32 rods.

I welded a metal rack once with nothing but a Lincoln A/C 225 buzz box and some 5/32 6011 welding rods. The metal had been sitting outside and was rusty and about 3/8 thick. Those 5/32 6011 rods penetrated thru the rust easily and made some really decent looking welds.Years later, that metal rack is still holding about 6000 pounds of metal bar stock in a machine shop.

Now remember, 6011 rods will not be as pretty as 6013. I take heat for this on occasion but I just do not like 6013 rods. Sometimes they work great, but other times they fool you and you have a line of slag right down the middle of the bead. I would rather have rough ripples and a good bead every time. That is why I prefer 6011. Here is a quote from the Army Welding Manual that just adds to my explanation:

(e) There is another quality problem associated with extremely large single-pass weld deposits. When these large welds solidify, the impurities in the melted base metal and in the weld metal all collect at the last point to freeze, which is the centerline of the weld. If there is sufficient restraint and enough impurities are collected at this point, centerline cracking may occur. This can happen when making large single-pass flat fillet welds if the base metal plates are 45 degrees from flat. A simple solution is to avoid placing the parts at a true 45 degree angle. It should be varied approximately 10 so that the root of the joint is not in line with the center line of the fillet weld. Another solution is to make multiple passes rather than attempting to make a large weld in a single pass.


leave this page on 6011 welding rods and see more stick welding tips
tips and tricks
 
Good information. Thanks for taking the time. I suspect that one of the reasons that people avoid using 6010 and 6011 for repairs like the one described here is that the light slag cover of either of those rods does not conceal the weld puddle the same way the heavy slag of 7018 or 6013 does. This allows for a visual illusion that the 6010/6011 filler metal has not bridged the gap in the pieces being welded. This is odd because 6010 and 6011 are by far the best of these at bridging gaps in poor fit up situations; 7018 is poor at it and 6013 is terrible. But the heavy slag cover of either creates the impression that they have bridged the gap. It takes a lot of experience to learn to trust what you know rather than what you seem to see.

Stan
 
I agree with you 100% Back in my younger days I was welding on a school being built with a DC machine running 5/32 6011 rods & that was the only rods I had. I had to weld some 18 ga sheet So I practiced on some scrap & got the machine adjusted down to where I could weld without burning through. So you really don't need the small rods to weld thin steel. 6013 has too much slag for sheet steel. I weld 16 ga with 1/8 inch 6011 with no problem. It is when you have to fill in a gap of a poor fit that you need a lot of tacks first, then step weld to finish it.
 
Teddy52food, Before wire machines became popular 5/32 electrodes were used to weld sheet metal on the Ford auto assembly line. That sheet metal is 18 gauge. That was before my time. When I was welding auto sheet metal we used wire machines the wire machines were turned up so high you had to move fast to keep from burning through. Most auto welds are spot welds. After the body was completely assembled back in the 60's and before, welders would put in welds that spot guns could not. Before wire machines it was all done with stick machines and some oxygen/acetylene brazing.
 
I welded aboard ship with 6011 90% of the time. Aboard ship 6011 was what we consumed the most of.
The maintenance job I had, I had to break in some apprentices, one job making tools I had the apprentice weld with 6011, He hated it and had trouble with the rod. Before all those tools were built he changed his opinion of the 6011 rod and enjoyed using it.
 
I appreciate all the advice and suggestions. When it warms up I will try to practice a little with some 6011 and some 6013 rods and compare. Like I said I can do a little patch work but am not any kind of expert. Thanks again, Tommy
 
The older I get the more I like the 6011. It's great for building up something on top of.... scale.. which is probably what you have. If it burns through, just move back until you find something half solid and build out from there. At least when it burns in you'll know it's attached to something. If you go using a 6013 on some crappy old deck you'll probably find that you have some pretty looking slag sitting on TOP of the scale, attached to nothing... Also keep in mind that the 6011 requires a bit different technique that 7018 or many other rods. You need to let it burn in on the edges, then whip across to the other side, burn in, then whip back... that way you're concentrating the heat on the edges where you ~should~ have some metal to work with and just whipping across the gap QUICKLY so you don't burn through. Keep advancing and it should firm up behind you.
Throw the 6013 back on the shelf and leave it there.

Rod
 
The fact still remains that 6011 is a high-penetration rod and 6013 or 7014 is a low-penetration rod.
That's not saying that a person with experience can take a small diameter 6011 rod and get by welding thin sheet-metal.
 
Yes 6011 is a deep penetration rod but it is also a fast freeze rod. Those that successfully can weld really thin sheet with 6011 are using the the fast freeze properties of the 6011 to do it. they are not using the deep penetration properties of 6011 to do it. (I am usually not one of those people that can successfully weld thin sheet with 6011).


6013 is low penetration rod. I do better using 6013 on thin sheet when no wire feeder is available. 5/64" diameter rods are available which is smaller than 3/32 (3/32=6/64 for the fractionally challenged). 5/64 rods are shorter in length but have enough stiffness to not flex all over the place like a 1/16" diameter rod will (1/16=4/64 for the fractionally challenged). Also 6013 grinds, drills, taps, burr tools as close to plain ole mild steel that I have found of any common weld. Can be a real boone for parts that will have to be built up and re-shaped with common hand power tools.

1/16" diameter rods: I hate them all, but if you force me to use a 1/16" diameter rod then give me 7014. The ease of 7014 makes a 1/16 diameter rod borderline tolerable.
 

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