Best Lathe Cutting Fluid?

Lanse

Well-known Member
Hey, guys!

So, I recently bought a 9" Logan Lathe and am figuring out how to run it...

I was wondering what kind of cutting fluid would be good for turning mild steel with HSS and Carbide cutters? What do you like and why?

Folks have recommended everything from Automatic Transmission Fluid to Concrete Cutting Fluid and I'm just trying to make sense of it all... Any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks in advance...
 
Forgot the pitcher'
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Any oil will help, some cuts don't need any oil. One of the best cutting fluid is "rapid tap" but kinda expensive. Just remember "feed and speed".Put your tool a little below center and cut away! Nottin to it! Steve
 
For simple turning I run dry. Sometimes I'll use the spray mist to control the temperature of the part, especially when trying to hold close tolerance.

For drilling I use spray mist, that way I can direct the mist deeper into the hole being drilled. Think it's called Kool Mist, Cool Mist? It's a blue water soluble concentrate.

For tapping, die threading and single point threading I use dark cutting oil, same thing used with a pipe threader. Put it on with a brush.
 
Unless you have a modern machining center that is set up for coolant, slow RPM's, slow feed rate and cobalt bits are your friends.
 
I am a retired Tool&Die Maker and I have a Logan Powermatic 11 x 36. You have already received some good advise. If you haven't already, this may interest you.

http://www.machinistweb.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9
 
Looks like a nice machine.

I run dry for pretty much everything except boring and cutoff. Almost always carbide insert tooling.

One bit of advice as you trade up in the future. Get digital read out (DRO) asap. When I bought the lathe I currently have I didn't think I really needed DRO but the used one I got had it. Won't own a machine tool without now.

jt
 
Congradulations on your new purchase. Now that you've got it you'll wonder how you ever got by without it. Just FYI, the next step is to find yourself a nice milling machine too.

As for your question, carbide is designed to run dry, so no coolant is needed when using it to turn. When using the HSS or Cobalt bits, I usually use dark cutting oil from a squeeze bottle, or painted on with an old brush, if needed. Usually though if you do as others have said and watch your feed and speed you can get by running dry too, unless your threading.

When you get ready to pick up some more tooling, and believe me if you don't have a QC tool post you'll want one, places like WT Tool, Travers Tool, MSC, and McMaster Carr are your friend. Get on their mailing lists and you'll get sales fliers, catalogs, etc that will help you get the stuff you need for decent prices.

On the QC posts, the import sets from WT are economically priced and work great for what you'll be doing. If you've currently got the lantern post, the import holders they have in that line work good too.

Your next purchase needs to be a tool grinder with a green wheel for the carbide tools, and a white wheel for the HSS tools. The grinder isn't a necessity as you can use a regular bench grinder with a green wheel for the carbide and the white wheel for the HSS/Cobalt, but it will aid greatly in getting the correct angles on your bits to insure they cut like they should. I got mine from HF, on closeout, with a coupon, for around $120, but I didn't see them on their site anymore. You can keep your eyes open at places like HGR Industrial Surplus, etc to find one at a price even better than WT's import brand. Barring that, I can only say that Dad has a Baldor brand, and I've got the HF brand, and mine grinds just as well as the EXPENSIVE one, and other than a couple of minor differences like the color, looks identical. Personally I'd rather spend even the $379 for the import rather than the $1365 for the Baldor. No harder than they actually get used, the import will last a Looooooong time for a lot less money.......
WT Tool grinder

WT tool tool holder
 
The only reason to use a lubricant is to cool the HSS bit when you are cutting too deep and too fast or boring. I tried quite a few when I first started but learned that slowing down worked much better.
 
You can use anything for cutting oil. Horse pizz would work too but smell bad. An actual cutting fluid like Kool Mist works well, doesnt smell bad and is cheap and non rusting.
I do NOT recommend using used motor oil. This smells bad and has contaminants in it which will wear out the machine sooner.
I have used many many fluids on a lathe and mill for cutting. WD40 in a spray can works too. Dark cutting fluid for cutting pipe threads works but smells bad. Power steering fluid, straight 40 wt, heavy hydraulic fluid too.
 
Youtube has a lot of machining videos as you probably know. A very good machining forum is www.hobby-machinist.com
 
The idea of a cutting fluid is to keep the work piece and cutting tool cool which helps with tool wear and the piece in tolerance. A flood on the tool and work piece does this best but, on an open lathe makes a mess. A constant mist would be next best . A soluble oil would be good (something to mix with water).
 
I run dry with most everything on the open lathes. I have a Logan 9 inch that looks almost like that one. I have the spindle bearing out now.
 
I disagree with Dieselrider about soluble oil because it smells horrble and has to be recycled. Unless your machine is set up for it . { it always splashes on you too ]Use dark cutting oil for pipe threading.For aluminum you can use the ATF, kerosene, or dry. Cast iron dry. Usually carbide likes more horsepower but you can try one. If you need to grind a high speed tool Youtube is your friend.
 
Way to go Wayne! The guy buys him a lathe and you have him spending $100 more dollars just to start out!!

Just kidding Wayne, A lathe without tooling and accessories is just something else to trip over in the shop. I can tell you have been there. The new machinist wannabes will either figure it out and spend it, or the lathe will be like 1000 others sitting in the corner of a shop, covered with junk, and rusting away.

Butch
 
All I was trying to state was that the water in those solutions does the cooling and that is the point of the fluid in most operations. There are some solubles that do not get degraded and stinky however the most common one can.

I run most operations dry on an open lathe as someone else had stated and just allow for a bit more sharpening and cooling of the part before measuring. The op was regarding coolant and that is what I answered about.
 
Sorry I wasn't trying to argue with anyone. I just get a headache taking the cap off soluble oil. Maybe it just bothers me. It does work quite well as far as the part is concerned.
 
It's always good to keep some cutting oil on hand for the tougher jobs. Enco, MSC, and others will sell you a pint, quart, gallon, or more of the popular oils which work pretty well. For the worst jobs such as threading stainless or whatever, Hangsterfer's Hard-Cut is far and away the best you can get. And you'll about crap yourself when you see how much it costs. When I use cutting oil, I dab it on with an acid brush and use compressed air to remove chips.
 
Carbide tooling is NOT "designed to run dry". That's just absurd, and irresponsible to say on a public forum to someone seeking accurate information.

Also, ebay is the best source to find good used American made tooling that will last a long time.
 
Lanse , I will try to post some p[ics later about the tool post holder guys are telling you about and a tool holder I use called Diamond Tool holder. which makes a nice cut.
 
For someone doing the type of machine work Lanse will be doing with this lathe, the carbide needs to be run dry. The only reason he would need to run coolant is if the part was getting too hot and the heat was causing the part to warp.

That said, carbide is designed to run 'hot' and still perform. In some cases, and with some coatings, it actually performs better when it is run hot due to the coating.

That's not to say carbide can't be run with coolant, it can. When coolant is used though it needs to be flooded on, not trickled on, brushed on, etc. This is necessary because of the thermal shock to the carbide caused by the coolant not actually keeping the whole bit cool, but rather cooling the cutting edge more than the rest of it. This shock will cause premature wear on the carbide, and with the cost of inserts, the longer the life you can get, the better.

Given that Lanse is just getting into the field of machining, and the fact his machine isn't set up with a coolant system, I'll stand by my statement. I also stand by it for the simple fact that I have been doing both lathe and mill in my shop, as well as portable line boring in the field for well over 15 years, and nearly always run carbide tooling dry unless I'm making extremely heavy cuts, or threading. Given the size of Lanse's machine I can't see him doing any cutting that I'd call heavy, but if you'll notice I did say to use lube when cutting threads.

Finally, yes, good tooling can be found on Ebay, CL, and many other places. However, even used tooling often fetches prices much higher than it's imported counterparts. So, if your on a budget, or don't do enough volume of work to justify spending $1000 on something to use twice, when you can spend $100 and do the same job, it's crazy to spend the money on a tool that won't offer you any returns for years to come. In my case I've got plenty of the name brand stuff to work with, but also have plenty of the import stuff that usually does just as good of a job as it's more expensive counterpart. I mean if your using a new lathe and trying to hold your tolerances in the .0001 range, then by all means spend the extra money. But, when you've got an old lathe that hasn't seen a .0001 tolerance in 30 years, it's kind of stupid to waste the money.

But in the end that's just my .02.....
 
(quoted from post at 20:06:03 01/28/15) For someone doing the type of machine work Lanse will be doing with this lathe, the carbide needs to be run dry. The only reason he would need to run coolant is if the part was getting too hot and the heat was causing the part to warp.

That said, carbide is designed to run 'hot' and still perform. In some cases, and with some coatings, it actually performs better when it is run hot due to the coating.

That's not to say carbide can't be run with coolant, it can. When coolant is used though it needs to be flooded on, not trickled on, brushed on, etc. This is necessary because of the thermal shock to the carbide caused by the coolant not actually keeping the whole bit cool, but rather cooling the cutting edge more than the rest of it. This shock will cause premature wear on the carbide, and with the cost of inserts, the longer the life you can get, the better.

Given that Lanse is just getting into the field of machining, and the fact his machine isn't set up with a coolant system, I'll stand by my statement. I also stand by it for the simple fact that I have been doing both lathe and mill in my shop, as well as portable line boring in the field for well over 15 years, and nearly always run carbide tooling dry unless I'm making extremely heavy cuts, or threading. Given the size of Lanse's machine I can't see him doing any cutting that I'd call heavy, but if you'll notice I did say to use lube when cutting threads.

Finally, yes, good tooling can be found on Ebay, CL, and many other places. However, even used tooling often fetches prices much higher than it's imported counterparts. So, if your on a budget, or don't do enough volume of work to justify spending $1000 on something to use twice, when you can spend $100 and do the same job, it's crazy to spend the money on a tool that won't offer you any returns for years to come. In my case I've got plenty of the name brand stuff to work with, but also have plenty of the import stuff that usually does just as good of a job as it's more expensive counterpart. I mean if your using a new lathe and trying to hold your tolerances in the .0001 range, then by all means spend the extra money. But, when you've got an old lathe that hasn't seen a .0001 tolerance in 30 years, it's kind of stupid to waste the money.

But in the end that's just my .02.....
NCWAYNE---Once again I agree with you. I have run Carbide endmills and carbide blanks (That I ground fluted on) and run them [i:49055b39e8]cherry red[/i:49055b39e8] with no problem!
 
You've got that right. When my parents got divorced and the family business got disrupted, I went from working in Dad's shop with an 18" hydroshift lathe, and all the tooling, a Bridgeport and tooling, a K.O.Lee tooling grinder,, etc, etc, to nothing.

With the business and the economy both screwed up I went for several years making do without the tools I was used to having. I finally lucked out and got myself a flat belt driven, '20's era, Southbend lathe that, remarkably was in good shape and would hold a decent tolerance after I line bored, and trued the spindle bushings. I used it for several years with a lantern post, until I finally got a QC setup for it.

Around the same time I found a nice mill with both a 5 HP vertical and 5 HP horizontal spindle.

In both cases I had never realized how much I took the ones at Dad's shop for granted, and how much both machines got used....until I didn't have either to use. Then when I did have the machine I didn't realize how worthless it was with no tooling, or without the proper tooling. Often times a job that I could have done on Dad's lathe in 30 minutes took me two to three times as long just because of tooling issues....and a mill without a good vice is no better than a drill press.....

In the end I my parents got their stuff together, and settled with the divorce. Fortunately I wound up with Dad's lathe in my shop, along with all the tooling I could ever need. Between that and the tooling I have acquired for the mill since getting it, I can do pretty much anything I might need to do. Even now though, I still need more stuff for the mill because it's got 40 NST spindles (though I can use the CAT 40 stuff with the new, longer retaining bolt I made, as the only difference is the extended/threaded top on the NST 40 ones that allows them to catch the factory bolt))). Until I can find a deal, and have the money to spend, I get by using R8 stuff and adapting it, which is a PITA. It's almost as bad as having no tooling when it comes to the time spend getting setup on some things.

So, to say I've been there is right. In fact I've been there, got knocked back, and am now working my way back to where I want, and need to be. It's a long and expensive road, but the plus is always the fact that I get to buy more tools....LOL
 
(quoted from post at 20:26:24 01/28/15) You've got that right. When my parents got divorced and the family business got disrupted, I went from working in Dad's shop with an 18" hydroshift lathe, and all the tooling, a Bridgeport and tooling, a K.O.Lee tooling grinder,, etc, etc, to nothing.

With the business and the economy both screwed up I went for several years making do without the tools I was used to having. I finally lucked out and got myself a flat belt driven, '20's era, Southbend lathe that, remarkably was in good shape and would hold a decent tolerance after I line bored, and trued the spindle bushings. I used it for several years with a lantern post, until I finally got a QC setup for it.

Around the same time I found a nice mill with both a 5 HP vertical and 5 HP horizontal spindle.

In both cases I had never realized how much I took the ones at Dad's shop for granted, and how much both machines got used....until I didn't have either to use. Then when I did have the machine I didn't realize how worthless it was with no tooling, or without the proper tooling. Often times a job that I could have done on Dad's lathe in 30 minutes took me two to three times as long just because of tooling issues....and a mill without a good vice is no better than a drill press.....

In the end I my parents got their stuff together, and settled with the divorce. Fortunately I wound up with Dad's lathe in my shop, along with all the tooling I could ever need. Between that and the tooling I have acquired for the mill since getting it, I can do pretty much anything I might need to do. Even now though, I still need more stuff for the mill because it's got 40 NST spindles (though I can use the CAT 40 stuff with the new, longer retaining bolt I made, as the only difference is the extended/threaded top on the NST 40 ones that allows them to catch the factory bolt))). Until I can find a deal, and have the money to spend, I get by using R8 stuff and adapting it, which is a PITA. It's almost as bad as having no tooling when it comes to the time spend getting setup on some things.

So, to say I've been there is right. In fact I've been there, got knocked back, and am now working my way back to where I want, and need to be. It's a long and expensive road, but the plus is always the fact that I get to buy more tools....LOL
My situation was different, I worked in two large T&D shops for many years and although I ran virtually all machinery, my true love was the Kearney Trecker milling machine and 90% of our work was automotive T&D.
 
Boelube works well and the waxy consistency would work well with no chip pan to catch the mess. Also Energy Release cutting and tapping fluid. Tap Free works decent too but the formula changed to so it doesn't have some of the chemicals that cause cancer in California. Rigid cutting oil is fine too. Pick up one of the little Spillmaster cups and a brush and you can put whatever oil where you want it. I think you will see better surface finish on your with cutting fluid of some type. Good luck. Pick up some center drills, a thread fish and dial indicator and you'll be in business!
 
Youtube has a lot of machining videos as you probably know. A very good machining forum is www.hobby-machinist.com
 
Yes sir! Plus a quick change tool post, 4 jaw chuck, a bunch of tooling, original owners' manual, couple of books and a tool-chest drawer full of other random stuff (HSS inserts, dead center, face plate, etc)

I love it! :)
 
Tim, I think you took that statement wrong.
Lubricant/coolant is not a black and white issue when machining with carbide there are gray areas. For cast iron it is generally recommended to run it dry. For turning or milling it can be run dry as long as you are not pushing the limits for speed and feed (and few do when preforming one -off jobs on a small lathe or mill) Looking at the tables provided by the carbide manufacturers you will find that except when machining hard or difficult to machine metals at production rates that dry will be at the very least "acceptable" and in some cases to be the preferable method of operation. Most of the time there will be wording to the effect coolant will add x and X to allowable feed and speed rates. This varies from Manufacturer to manufacturer. With coolants being considered as toxic waste and chips that contain it being treated similarly by scrap buyers running without it has become an attractive alternative in more and more situations in production facilities. AT home that means little but mess means a lot. I run some coolant or a bit of oil as needed to provide surface finish but when roughing I usually run dry. If insert life suffers 20% because of it I would never know it.
 
When I'm not in a rush, I take light cuts with slow feed speeds and go dry. Less of a mess. Watch your chips and your tool tip, niether should turn blue at any time. When pushing against a deadline, I'll take heavier cuts and use thread cutting oil.
 
I have a couple of the heavy mill vices but use these more than the vices. I have two hand crank turntables and one for the 4 axis CNC.

SUNP0020-vi.jpg
 
You should be around my mold shop while we are building mold and see how absurd and irresponsible we have been for 38 years.
 
You can use about anything and it will help with getting a better finish. One thing you need to do is make sure your tools are sharp. After grinding them hand stone them with fine stones to polish out the scratches from the grinder. I have 5 and 10 power loupes and it amazing how rough and edge will look. A sharp edge will cut better, easier, and last longer. Find a copy of the South Bend lathe book How To Run A Lathe, this will get you started, all the basics are there. I don't like the rocker style tool posts either, not ridged enough, I like my tool mounted solid in a block of steel, not hanging out over the compound rest, this also helps with finish.
 

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