Patsdeere

Well-known Member
So I am doing some work that a 6 ft level
is of great assistance, but this is by no
means finish carpentry. I have been
borrowing one from work and decided to
spend a little xmas money on one. Is there
a difference between the $70 home depot
one and the $20 (before coupons) harbor
freight one?

Thanks
 
Did you go to the Harbor Freight website and read the customer reviews for the 72" level? My feeling is that H/F reviews are legitimate. There are only 4 reviews for that level, two five star, one three star, and one two star. The two star review made no sense because that person had very positive things to say about the level, entirely inconsistent with such a low rating. The one I would be concerned about is the three star rating because that person said one of the vials went dry in a few months. I would ask at Harbor Freight if a level is considered a hand tool because they have a lifetime warranty on their hand tools. Since the level is only $20, the additional cost of a one or two year extended warranty might be small. You've got a lot of leeway in that regard if the alternative purchase you're considering is $70.

Do you know how to test that a level is true while you're in the store? If you do, you don't have to read the rest of this paragraph. Lay it on any approximately level surface and carefully note the position of the bubble. Turn the level end for end in exactly the same place and note the bubble again. If the bubble is in the same place both times, the level is true. Test for plumb the same way---against a vertical surface, of course. I usually test for level and plumb against both the top and bottom surfaces of the level.

Good luck,

Stan
 
I would not buy a level out of Harbor Freight. I have been in Harbor Freight about 4 times and think most of the stuff they sell is of low quality. I would buy out of Menards or Lowes first. If I have any problem they have always replaed with no hassle.
 
My dad, grand-dad and bro-in-law were all professional carpenters, and none ever had a 6 foot level. I think it would be extremely cumbersome, and I think you'd be much happier with a 3 or 4 footer. As for Harbor Freight, I've got quite a bit of stuff from them, and am satisfied with it. The only thing I avoid are tools that require high quality steel, like chisels, side cutters, etc.
 
It is easy to check any level. Just place it and note the position of the bubble; then reverse the level end-to-end, if the bubble is in the same position the level is accurate. If the bubble is not in the same position, don't buy that level unless it can be adjusted.
 
HF quality has improved on a lot of their items over the years. Yes, they still sell some junk, but it is up to your to exam the product and decide if it will be good for you - or not good for you.
 
Patsdeere,
HF does have some good things, some are not. The best thing about HF is they will take returns if you keep your receipt, no hassle. So get HF level, don't like, return it. For me, HF is 3 miles away. Go past it on my way to town. If I had to drive 30 miles out of my way to HF, I may think about saving gas and get something else. Problem is the something else is probably made in China too.

I only have a 2 and 4 ft level that I carry in truck. Don't really see the need for a 6 ft one. For the really big jobs, I use my dewalt rotating laser on a tripod. Leveled dirt in a 80x160 ft horse arena within an inch and neighbor said that was good enough.
 
Another way to check a level while in the store is to take 2 levels and hold them together and see if the viles are the same, if so then turn one of them around, if both viles are still the same then both levels are true.

Dusty
 
I have a 4' and a 6' and though I don't use the 6' very often it is easier to be accurate than a 4' when you need one. If you think about it, 6' is 50% more accurate than 4'. I use it mostly for installing prehung doors or building new walls in a basement, etc.
I buy good tools.
I live about a mile from Harbor Fright and never go in the place.
Yes a cheap level will do the same job as a good one and yes you can check a level for accuracy.
But a cheap level is not going to give you the same life long accuracy as a good one. Drop one once and see what you get. And yes they all get dropped or slide off a wall on occasion.
 
That's the problem with Harbor Freight. Someone goes to Harbor Freight a couple times and maybe gets a lemon and then spreads the word around that all Harbor Freight stuff is junk. The fact of the matter is in todays world junk is everywhere and I don't see Harbor Freight has any more junk than anyone else. What few lemons I've bought at Harbor Freight they took back with no questions.
 
A little over a year ago I decided I needed a better level, mine just weren't accurate and they were hard to read. I settled on a couple of these...a 2 footer and a 5' one. What a difference. I really like them.
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=level+stabila&tag=googhydr-20&index=tools&hvadid=30987769221&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2704582470236805802&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_7jqmb1hn2x_b
Untitled URL Link
 
Look at a cross section and compare the two. Then before you do leave the store test it . { I draw a line on the wall and flip it but guys have posted other methods where you don't have to mark the wall]. I'm going to guess now you will probabl;y pass on the Harbor -Freight because it will look flimsy. As Stan posted below the Harbor -Freight online reviews seem legit. A flimsy level will be ruined by one bad loading of the gang box.
 

Level has various uses, it can also be used to determine level, or vertical or to set a slope...etc. Checking all those functions in the store before your purchase will likely draw a large group of curious on lookers.

I believe there are differences, however you may not be able to observe it with a simple inspection. For example: I purchased a four foot level with a window in the top which allows me to see the bubble when laying drainage tile. Since it would be used in wet/muddy conditions I did not want anything too fancy. As I used the level it became apparent that the bubble was sluggish as it moved off of the center level position. This made it in-accurate to set slopes.

I purchased another level of higher quality. Both the levels were "Johnson" and made in the USA. I paid much more for the better level and there is a noticeable difference (improvement) in the bubble movement.
 
I was working with an experienced carpenter many years ago so I decided to buy my own level. He took me to a high quality tool store and told me to pick one out. I picked out one that looked good (pretty). He took it and placed it on the floor. Next, he turned it over on the opposite side. Then, end for end both ways. Then we went to a wall and checked it all 4 possible ways. We went thru 5 levels to find the best (most accurate in all positions). I still have that level, a Johnson. A few years later, I decided I needed a 2', 4', and a 6' level. I already had the 2' so when I did the same procedure on 4' and 6' levels in the store, they got upset with me. When I showed them the variations, even in the same brand and part number, they had never heard of that.

When housing was going big a few years back, I was asked if I could work for him again, as a follow up to his crew and check the walls. It pays to have good tools.
 
When I posted on this thread last night it was normal. Now it comes up wider than my screen. Usually this happens when someone has posted an oversized picture, but there are no pictures here. Can anyone explain what happened?

Stan
 
(quoted from post at 00:47:33 01/08/15) So I am doing some work that a 6 ft level
is of great assistance, but this is by no
means finish carpentry. I have been
borrowing one from work and decided to
spend a little xmas money on one. Is there
a difference between the $70 home depot
one and the $20 (before coupons) harbor
freight one?

Thanks

Listen to JD Farmer, get a Stabila. Those are sweet levels and can really take a beating. Looks like the 72 incher is just over $100 now, thats money well spent. I hated Stabilas for years, insisted on high priced wood levels (Smith and Crick mostly) but seen a Stabila on a great sale one day so tried one. I really havent used my wood levels since, the Stabilas are that good.

Get one, you wont be sorry. If you are sorry, sell it on craigslist, you will get most of your money back. They are rare as used tools and usually sell way over my usual buy point of "half price" because everybody loves them and usually keep them forever.
 
(quoted from post at 07:28:30 01/08/15) If you think about it, 6' is 50% more accurate than 4'.

You got it backwards, a 6 footer is [i:7c110af024]less accurate[/i:7c110af024] than a 4 footer or even a 2 footer. Well technically they would be the same but in practial use, the shorter level will show you a out of level surface easier than a longer level will.

Try this. Grab your 2 footer and your 6 footer. Set the 6 footer on a level counter. Level reads right (level) so take a couple business cards and put just enough under the end to show out of level on the 6 footer. Now replace the 6 footer with the 2 footer.... wow, huh? Roughly 3 times as many cards under the 6 footer to read off as the 2 footer, isnt it? 2 footer is more accurate in finding out of level, it "sees" the out of level easier.

This will prove the "technically same" part. Go back to the 6 footer with no shims, everything is level. Now put the 2 footer on top of the 6 footer, again its level and the same as the 6 footer. Now put shims under the end of the 6 footer, what happened to the 2 footer? Right, its off the exact same amount as the 6 footer. Thats because they have the same tolerances. This is how level companies test their levels, with a fancy test stand. All levels are tested with the same "shim" (out of level) no matter what length of the level but as you seen above, the shorter level detects an out of level condition easier.

High volume level companies like Empire and the like, I believe use computers and optics to build and check levels. Smaller companies like Smith and Crick are done by hand. I built a test stand out of UniStrut years ago and even reset vials on levels I liked. It was a great skill to learn but kinda obsolete for me now, I have gone to Stabilas and the only failure I have with those are bent bodies. Cant fix those so the only thing to do is not run them over.
 
Well, Harbor Freight does their best not to honor their warranties or even their own policies. I've gone head to head with them twice on them taking advantage. I even have the District Manager's cell phone number, not that I'll ever need it again.
 
I'd be interested in hearing the details about them not honoring their warranty, if you wouldn't mind taking a few minutes to tell me about it. I make personal buying decisions based not only on the price/quality of a product, but also on whether the seller will stand behind it.

I've had to return a few items to Harbor Freight, and the only time I can remember having to argue about it was when I returned a 10" brick/tile saw because the motor was starting to cut out intermittently. I got the feeling that the person I had to talk to over the phone at the store wouldn't have argued if the saw had failed completely, but I had to convince her that I had a right to have a major tool that wouldn't fail in the middle of a job. That had already happened to me with a Harbor Freight concrete vibrator that stopped working partway through a pour. That incident demonstrated to me that a good warranty is a lot less valuable than a tool that doesn't fail. Anyway, I got the new tile saw under the warranty, so I'll never know when or if the old one would have failed.

Stan
 
Good post.
I understand your comment about accuracy but here's what I meant.
Take a 2' or 4' level and check for plumb on a wall you're building.
Now take your 6' level and check it.
Which of the three levels will more accurately set plumb on the wall?
 
I'm a 4th generation carpenter with 40+ years on the job myself. There's a few things I've learned about levels.

1. There are all sorts of good "new" levels. But not all of them are worth a hoot after a few days on the job. Wood levels absorb shock better than metal ones. You just have to take good care of them and NOT let them get wet, OR, lay out in the sun. Remember, these are precision instruments, and not to be bounced around like a crow bar

2. When buying levels, put 2 of them against one another. If EITHER shows any inconsistencies (bubble slightly off) Put BOTH of them back on the shelf and leave ;em be. You have no idea which one is off, so assume BOTH are inacurate.

3. NEVER stand a level on it's end. One slight bump and they hit the floor. Lay 'em down flat.

4. Handiest size is a 4'er. I've got a 12", a 16", a 24", several 48", a 72", a 79", and an 84". The 79" is a jamb level....Just barely able to fit in a standard 6'-8" tall door jamb, floor to header...for plumbing and straightening door jambs as you're hanging them. They are kinda rare...I've only seen 3 of them in my entire life, and 2 are "family" tools.
 
If we ever needed a longer level, we'd always just find a nice straight 2x4 the length we needed and electrical taped the 4' level to it.
 
Yes that will work fine and is just as accurate. - for a guy who isn't charging for it.
But when you are billing your customer nearly a buck a minute to remodel their home you really do need to have the right tools to maximize your productivity.
Kind of like having both 6 point and 12 point sockets in your box. A guy like me who does a little wrenching for stress relief can get by with only one kind but a fellow who's wrenching for a living had better have both.
 
(quoted from post at 07:30:56 01/09/15)
Which of the three levels will more accurately set plumb on the wall?

The one that touches top and bottom of the wall, generally speaking that would be the 6 footer. But if you are setting a 24 foot wall with a 6 footer, you are just as hamstrung as setting a 8 foot wall with a 2 footer. Enter lasers, used to be a plumb bob but we threw old Bob in the river years ago...

A longer level bridges the small inperfections and goes "bump to bump" so to speak, giving a better overall picture of plumb. But my point was, a 6 footer is not 50% more accurate, its less. But that doesnt mean you should use a 2 footer to plumb up walls just because its more accurate, you miss a good bit of info because of what the level is NOT touching. I think thats the point you are making and I agree 100%.

I also agree, you have to have the proper tools if you are out getting paid top dollar for your work. The one day you forget your jamb set at home or another job is the day the customer is watching every move you make. Those are the times that the customer forgets you are working 20% less than the other guy but will tell everybody you set the door with a 2 footer. Gotta have tools, that second jamb set you bought years ago just saved $10,000 worth of future work because the homeowner, Joe Cheapskate/Loud-mouth will go out of his way "spread the word" of how you set doors....
 

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