Sharpening Newer knives!!!!

JD Seller

Well-known Member
I have sharpened knives all my life. I have always used a stone with a little honing oil. Start out on the coarse side than then finish on the fine grit side. Then a few swipes on a leather strap and they would be good to go. You usually could shave with them.

I now seem to have trouble getting an edge on several of the knives we have. It started out on the wife's kitchen knives. They are an imported stainless steel knife. I can't get then razor sharp. I can get them kind of sharp. I just put it up to them being "cheaper" knife or maybe a stainless knife. So I bought a few US made regular steel knives named "Old Hickory". They are supposed to be a good knife. I get them a little sharper but not what I would call razor sharp.

I bought a 1 x 30 inch belt sander just to sharped knives with. I have a kit for sharpening coming from Econ Abrasives. It is several types and grits of sanding belts with a leather belt an lapping compound. I had hoped it would be here before Thanksgiving. Did not make it.

My two questions are:

1) Are any of you having difficulties sharpening these newer knives???

2) Do any of you have a belt sander you sharpen with??? How do you like it???
 
Have always found the stainless harder to sharpen & may never get as sharp as the old family collection of knives. Went to a wet, slow speed, gear motor driven stone for first pass, then finish with fine whet stone.........gets pretty good.
 
I use oil stones. I start with a fine carborundum stone. Then I go to a hard Arkansas stone. I use a light oil on both. If I need to shave with it I strap it. I have a friend that swears by a steel to keep an edge sharp once you get it there.
 
Any time you ask a knife sharpening question, you'll get nearly as many answers as you get responses, ranging from experts down to people I wouldn't let sharpen a can of Play-Dough, who, of course, are bound and determined their method is the ONLY one that works. Truth is, there's no magic about any method, and good results can be achieved with many different methods. I've got several methods I use depending on circumstances and the specifics and end use of what I'm sharpening, but a good set of diamond stones and a leather strop to finish is my usual method on blades I want a shaving-sharp edge on. I own several belt sanders, including a 1x30 I built as a purpose-made knife grinding rig, but for everyday sharpening I use a belt sander mainly when I've got several blades to do, such as when someone hands me a dozen elderly kitchen knives that have got to the point where it's a chore to cut warm butter with them and wants me to fixee, fixee, makee all better. Provided they're not completely trashed, a progression of belts on the order of 80/120/240/320 and a quick strop will usually bring them back to some semblance of sharp. The newer knives can be quite difficult to sharpen, particularly the imported stainless steel ones--it's a combination of poor steel that's been poorly heat-treated, resulting in a knife that won't take an edge, or if it will, it won't last as they're too brittle and will quickly chip or round over depending on whether they're too hard or too soft. I've found I have to spend more time on the coarser grits with these, as even my good diamond stones won't remove an appreciable amount of metal on the finer grits, resulting in you wasting far too much time rubbing the knife over the stone without actually doing anything. Even good new knives with steel of known provenance can be difficult, as many of the newer "boutique" steels are designed to offer superior wear and abrasion resistance, the flip side of which is that they're tougher and thus more difficult to sharpen. Same thing applies--you may have to spend more time on coarser stones to ensure your edge is properly profiled before polishing and deburring it with the finer grits and a strop.
 
I was taught to sharpen with Arkansas stones and use water as a lubricant rather than honing oil. A honing oil when it mixes with the steel will plug the pores of the stones making them less effective. If you keep the stones soaking in water, the water rusts away the steel re-newing the stone. I suspect the alloy of the knives you are now buying are not the same quality as what you once used.
 
Hey Tim, now I know why you took that can of Play-Doh away from me the last time we talked!

I have a carbon steel butcher knife that belonged to my father that takes almost no effort to put a razor sharp edge on, and I have one stainless blade made in Mexico that I can get enough of and edge on (after grinding the sucker first) to cut up cardboard boxes, but is next to worthless for field dressing a deer or cutting meat. I think Tim sums it up rather well. I have one that a friend made out of a chain saw bar that takes a nice edge and holds that edge, but the darn blade is only about 2 1/2 inches long so I don't use it much.
 
I too have problems with newer knives. Stainless makes for knives that don't rust in the dishwasher. It's tough but "gummy" and that characteristic is what's making it hard to sharpen to a fine edge.

The old knives were high carbon steel and it's harder and holds an edge better.

The best kitchen knife I have is made of forged stainless and made by Henckels. It sharpens faster and holds an edge longer but is probably not a high end knife by any means.

I'm hurting for some good knives myself and go through several every time I butcher chickens. Sooner or later I'll have to buy some real knives or make some out of old files.
 
I am not a great sharpener to start. I have a Smith sharpening set that holds the angles for you either 20 or 25%. But for a bad knife or good old garage sale knife I will use a Cratex rubberized grinding wheel. Being rubber it will only take material if you apply pressure . If you go light you get a polished finish. { fine grade Cratex].
 
JD,
I went through all the same things trying to get all the kitchen knives sharp. Bought a Work Sharp belt sharpener on line and problem solved. Really works good and fast. Will really put a good edge on our German made knives, Wusthof Solingen. Uses 3 different grits on color coded belts, has angle guides etc. Tom
 
Grandfather used to have a hand cranked grinding wheel he used. Don't know what happened to it. Electric grinders have too much speed and tend to take out any temper in the edge. I use a knife sharpener from Rada. Little thing with two steel wheels. Takes off the rough and then I touch it up with the steel. When we are butchering, we just hit them with the steel when they start to get dull
 
Knife sharpening is like asking what brand of oil one prefers, you may hear lots of different methods opinions and stories, all of which are the best, no doubt just ask them lol.

My experience has been the newer stainless steel seem to take longer to hone down to the edge I want, but once there maintain it fairly well.

One thing experience has taught me is that if you take them down to razor and shave sharp such isn't as durable and doesnt last near as long as if you stop just short of razor shave sharp which makes mechanical strength sense.

I usually start out with a fairly coarse stone to get the edge and angle in the shape I like it,,,,,,,,then move to a finer stone,,,,,,,,then perhaps a hard Arkansas type stone to finish. HOWEVER if I want to take them ahead down to razor shave sharp I finish up with some of those hard crock stick type of rods. CAUTION for general purpose pocket knife just short of razor shave sharp I might stop with a coarse then fine stone and only a few passes with a crock stick because if you take them down with the stick and strop them with leather, although shave sharp, it wont stay that long with hard abuse like a pocket knife may be subject to. Different story if for lighter duty kitchen blade or filet knife use, I may take them ahead down to razor shave sharp.

Soooooo that's my story and method and I'm sure others have their different methods and procedures and stories which is all fine and good, lots of fun and diversity here.

Best wishes

John T
 
I noticed many years ago, that the common folding lock back style knife, brass/rosewood style etc., made by Buck, was difficult to sharpen or hold an edge. I changed to Schrade and or Schrade Steel++ of the same type of knife, there was a stark contrast between the two. Early/mid 80's, and of course Schrade shut down their plant in Ellenville, NY 10 years ago, not sure what became of the product line, which I thought was of great quality. I liked Buck as well, just could not get past this issue on these kinds of knives.

Cutlery and knives are really interesting tools from manufacture to use, as is maintaining them and sharpening. I'm using inexpensive knives to cut meat, rappala fillet knife, and another with the hook knife to pull through hide/skin and membrane etc. and I get by with inexpensive sharpeners that you draw the knife through, appreciate the post, be nice to know more about the real deal with all of this and methods used to maintain quality knives.
 
Over the years, I have found that I can get a razor sharp edge on a stainless knife by lightly sliding across the stone with backside of blade facing me and pulling the blade to me. This is opposite with carbon steel in the fact that I finish sharpening by lightly dragging across the blade away from me, like trying to shave the stone.
 
We have a ss Sabatier French knife that takes and keeps an edge well. On the other hand we have a coupe of cheap ss knives that take a real long time to put a decent edge. Not all ss is the same. You have to pay for quality.
 
Dishwasher soap has fine stone grit in it It will destroy the edges on your knives. They also destroy the wooden handle models. Hand wash them if you want sharp knives.
 
(quoted from post at 16:22:14 11/28/14) I noticed many years ago, that the common folding lock back style knife, brass/rosewood style etc., made by Buck, was difficult to sharpen or hold an edge. I changed to Schrade and or Schrade Steel++ of the same type of knife, there was a stark contrast between the two. Early/mid 80's, and of course Schrade shut down their plant in Ellenville, NY 10 years ago, not sure what became of the product line, which I thought was of great quality. I liked Buck as well, just could not get past this issue on these kinds of knives.

Cutlery and knives are really interesting tools from manufacture to use, as is maintaining them and sharpening. I'm using inexpensive knives to cut meat, rappala fillet knife, and another with the hook knife to pull through hide/skin and membrane etc. and I get by with inexpensive sharpeners that you draw the knife through, appreciate the post, be nice to know more about the real deal with all of this and methods used to maintain quality knives.

The older Bucks had a weird grind on the edge. Once you got past it they sharpened as good or better than most other blades. My old Stockman I bought in 1972 will still take a scary sharp edge and it will last. That weird grind was something like a double hollow grind. I don't know anything about the new China made Bucks.

As far as common as kitchen knives I've yet to find a stainless available at the common Wally World/Sears/Beds, Bath and Beyond that will take and hold a really good edge. OTOH, I have an ancient Chefs Knife that came out of my parents restaurant that's got to be at least 50 years old and still takes an edge that would do anyone proud. My grandfather was a meat cutter at one point and the man knew how to use a steel. That was his knife and he could slice roast beef paper thin. I think it's quality as much as anything else that makes the difference. I have a 1940's Ka-Bar hunting blade and several old Cases that will hold razor edge (they will easily shave hair) longer than anything I've seen today.
 
Granddaddy's whet rock and a little spit work well with old carbon steel , SS is junk in my book . If it dont rust it want sharpen well
Boss
 
i cant get the newer ones to take an edge or hold what semi sharp edge i do manage to put on them, i look for old knives at garage sales now, the older people will have older knives that have the good steel in them, most can be reclaimed with some work
 
Took a while but I rounded up a set of used Chicago Cutlery made in USA knives.

Sharpen them with Arkansas stones just like the old days. I will second the comment on not running them through a dishwasher.

Older Case knives are probably good too.

I asked in the Dept. store why made in USA knives are hard to find, the EPA got us again.

There is at least one American company in the southeast (name escapes me) that still makes premium knives here but I have not tried them.
 
(reply to post at 12:50:54 11/27/14) [/

I have noticed a number of times that many people believe that stainless steel is stronger than say plain old cold rolled steel. I have worked with stainless for over forty years and learned that it is not. It will be "work hardened" by a punch however. I sell dish washing detergent by the trailer load. Neither mine nor any of the competition puts any abrasive in it. Abrasive would ruin pump shaft seals in a few days. Way back in the sixties I read a write-up in Popular Science about a scientific microscopic comparison between using oil vs. dry knife sharpening. Dry won.
 
That is about as ridiculous a claim as I have ever heard.
IF a dishwasher had sufficient heat to take the temper out of steel or stainless, it would also MELT a good amount of your dishes or at least damage them past being usable. Even a self-cleaning oven does not generate the amount of heat needed to de-temper steel.
It is my recollection (without looking it up) that steels are tempered in the 2000 to 2500 degree range. And that removing that temper takes temperatures in the over 1200 degree range. Never heard of a dishwasher getting that hot.
 

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