Electronic Ign. I'm convinced

Gary Mitchell

Well-known Member
I've pulled classic tractors for several years and stuck with standard old point and condenser ignition systems. I just couldn't see how anything else would give much better performance in relatively low RPM, long stroke engines, as long as the points were clean and set correctly.

I have a friend that always wanted to fly and have a plane. He got his license a few years ago and a Piper Colt about 4 years back. I have flown with him a number of times and never really paid a lot of attention to his pre-flight "ritual" but I did notice the last couple of time that when he tests his coils the engine runs better when both are engaged.

This has convinced me that even if the regular old style ignition is adequate, more is better. I haven't exactly figured out why yet but I sure am convinced that it is.
 
SURE, Points are fine,,,,,,,,they worked for 50 or 60 years or more,,,,,,,,,if they are burned you may be able to file them and get back to the barn,,,,,,,,,,,,,they are less expensive then an elec switch,,,,,,,,,,,if an elc switch fails youre screwed lol no filing points to get her home,,,,,,,,,,,and several other issues.

HOWEVER IFFFFFFF (that a big if mind you) an elec switch is working????? it provides fast more positive coil current switching then bouncing, burning, ringing, mechanical closing and opening bouncy contact points. From the day they are installed, they begin to slowly deteriorate as carbon and burning and pitting develops which results in voltage drop and resistance across them reducing spark energy.

ALSO, since an elec switch can have the capacity and ability (depends on switch) to switch more current then conventional points (around 4 amps or so) a higher energy higher voltage capacity coil might be used and the electronic based system has the capacity to deliver more spark gap energy (Volts x Amps x Time) across and often used wider spark plug gap when it fires to ignite the fuel air mixture.

Points are old technology while elec ignition is new technology.

CAVEAT it seems however, the add on modified old tractor elec ignitions are NOT the quality of a modern automotive elec ignition system.

NEXT, you may hear all sorts of stories about some gents who used them and love them and brag on them, while other gents tell stories about how they (maybe even same brand and model) failed or they hate them lol and I consider such stories valid and useful experiences and opinions.

Pay your money and make your choice. Its your call none of ours, if you're happy with points or prefer elec ignitions that's fine. Each has advantages and possible disadvantages. Often (depends on switch and coil) an elec system has the capacity and ability to deliver a higher energy discharge across the spark plug gap. If you're just parading and light use the old system is fine (also fine for heavy work) but if you have greatly increased the compression maybe running exotic fuel and higher RPM and into tractor pulling, you may want to consider a higher energy elec ignition system.

Nuff said, use what you like, the above may be right or wrong, NO WARRANTY, like every post here, its only one persons opinion.

John T Long retired EE and rusty especially on electronics SO THERE lol

Now for stories how a set of points lasted years n years n years or how an elec switch failed or how an elec worked great, I enjoy them all
 
(quoted from post at 11:58:05 11/17/14) I've pulled classic tractors for several years and stuck with standard old point and condenser ignition systems. I just couldn't see how anything else would give much better performance in relatively low RPM, long stroke engines, as long as the points were clean and set correctly.

I have a friend that always wanted to fly and have a plane. He got his license a few years ago and a Piper Colt about 4 years back. I have flown with him a number of times and never really paid a lot of attention to his pre-flight "ritual" but I did notice the last couple of time that when he tests his coils the engine runs better when both are engaged.

This has convinced me that even if the regular old style ignition is adequate, more is better. I haven't exactly figured out why yet but I sure am convinced that it is.
olt "probably" had dual mags & two plugs per cylinder.
 
I put in on om MF35 several years ago. I can't see any reason to go back to points. (But I still have them in a box just in case) TDF
 
Don't know if they are available for your tractor but I put a set in my 6 cyl inboard outboard and it mad a significant difference in the acceleration when pulling skiers and tubers.Had to install their coil also.Don't member the name but purchased thru Summit racing .
 
Most aircraft engines use magnetos rather than the point-and-condensor ignition, so they really need both ignition systems firing to get full power. Also, they are prone to plug fouling, particularly on the bottom plugs. Each mag is connected to the top plugs on one side and the bottom plugs on the other side, so when you switch off one mag you're usually running on two fouled plugs and two clean plugs. In other words, don't assume as dramatic of a difference if you switch your tractor from points to electronic ignition.

That said, there are a number of aftermarket electronic ignition systems for aircraft engines. Most are not certificated and must be used on experimental (homebuilt) aircraft. One of the problems with these systems is it's difficult to do an ignition check because the engine will run as well on a single electronic ignition as it will on two.
 
Most of my problems with ignition points is corrosion from sitting a long time in damp places. I have/had several tractors with points that would run fine all spring, summer and fall. Put away for the winter and no-start in the spring until I filed or scraped the points.

I used to assume that installing something like a breakerless Pertronix kit and retaining the OEM coil offered no gain in ignition performance. Just enhanced durability and no more corroded points. Well - I was wrong.

I HAD to put a kit in my Deere 1010 because the points-cam was worn out. I also put the Pertronix breakerless kit in a 55 horse Crosley engine (powering a Bearcat 4-stroke outboard). With both - hot idling is smoother and cold starting is better. Can't say way. Same coil but no ballast resistors anymore. More consistent dwell angle? My Deere 1010 saw a big difference. Back when it had a good distributor in prefect tune, and OEM ballast resistor in the ignition switch - cold starting and running was sort of a game of playing with the throttle and choke until it finally warmed up and ran OK. Once I put in the Pertronix - it starts and runs cold MUCH better. Timing is the same but when I put a light on it - it's steady and not bouncing around. And note - like I said - coil is still OEM, spark plug gap still stock OEM, etc.
 
Great story JD, not a surpris, even with a stock coil, the elec switch still provides fast positive coil current switching as opposed to burning bouncing contact points.

Take care nolw and keep warm

John T
 
Maybe 22 years ago I had Petronix (Perlux) then in a '72 f-250 pickup 390 engine. They had been in about a year when one day driving down a remote back road on the Oregon coast, raining hard of course, the truck stopped suddenly. I went to restart and the engine backfired so hard it split the muffler in two pieces. I dug around in the glove compartment and sure enough there was the old points and condenser and rotor. As luck would have it I actually had a old pair of pliers and a screwdriver. 20 minutes later i was moving along headed home. That was the last experiment with 'lectronic ignition for me. bjr
 
One of the best upgrades on a 360-390 with points ign is the electronic ign from a newer Ford. I think 75 and up. Got it on my 71 F350 and it starts every time and runs smooth.
 
They are magnetos. The reason for the pre flight check is to make sure both are working. The switch allows you to run on left, right, or both. Plus, RPM drop with either one alone gives you an idea how the two compare. Only a minimal difference is allowable. It's all about redundancy. Just like having multiple fuel pumps, and overlapping duty instruments, which, even if one fails, and you know what you're doing, can keep you out of trouble.
 
I had trouble at 1st with the petronix electronic ignition,been every bit 8 yrs ago ,,today in 20 degree temps and 4 inches of new snow ,the 54 DC Case started instantly and ran up ,,smooth as silk ,,.. not sure why the 1st few monthes I had so much trouble some 8 yrs ago ,, starter would crank and crank , but the motor would not hit a lick , let go of starter button and the motor would run , sometimes , I could flip the swich and the compression was just perfect up on stroke that the DC would start without even rolling over the motor ,, odd ,removed ignition switch and tried direct wire to battery, worked fine , so , still , today I have a direct wire alligator clamp to battery post to the petronix kit ,, and another direct wire from single wire alternater to battery ,, that is the ignition switch for now ... simple , and it worx fine
 
Like MarkB said, plug fouling is an issue on Avgas due to the high lead content. The magnetos also do not make as hot of a spark as a battery ignition.

The other factor is that light aircraft recip engines are using 1930's technology and have relatively crappy combustion chambers. It works so they're not going to mess with it also it is a Herculean task to get something new approved by the FAA.
 
(quoted from post at 12:02:12 11/17/14) Most [color=red:cccde0b9aa]aircraft engines use magnetos rather than the point-and-condensor ignition, [/color:cccde0b9aa]so they really need both ignition systems firing to get full power. Also, they are prone to plug fouling, particularly on the bottom plugs. Each mag is connected to the top plugs on one side and the bottom plugs on the other side, so when you switch off one mag you're usually running on two fouled plugs and two clean plugs. In other words, don't assume as dramatic of a difference if you switch your tractor from points to electronic ignition.

That said, there are a number of aftermarket electronic ignition systems for aircraft engines. Most are not certificated and must be used on experimental (homebuilt) aircraft. One of the problems with these systems is it's difficult to do an ignition check because the engine will run as well on a single electronic ignition as it will on two.

A magneto is a point and condenser ignition
 
I'm typically a real stickler for keeping things original, but the one exception I'll make is electronic ignition conversion!

Greatest aftermarket accessory ever! Never had a problem with one, pay for themselves many times over with the down time they prevent. One of the best features is they will make a less than perfect distributor work just fine.
 
>A magneto is a point and condenser ignition

Yes, I'm aware of that. I used that term because that's what the original poster used to describe a conventional ignition system.
 
What ????

How about all the millions of small engines using a magneto and the special coil with the electronics that eliminate the points and condenser. An aftermarket company even offered conversions for Briggs and Tecumseh. I never tried one on a tractor mag. but no reason one could not be manufactured to work.
 
By definition, a "magneto" is any device using
permanent magnets to make electricity. Some have
points and some do not.
 

in the old days......building hot rods and racing engines...

a distributor put out the best spark at idle and got weaker with speed

A magneto put out a weak spark at idle and got stronger with speed.

Guess which one we used on our race cars...
 
One way to increase the output of the coil at high RPM is to increase your ignition point dwell. But if you do that with a set of points, the contact gap gets too small and they will arc. (That's why dual-point ignition systems were popular with the hot-rodders for a couple of years) Electronic ignitions can do it without having to worry about point arcing.
Plus, if you remember the old tuneup oscilloscopes that let you actually "see" your points opening and closing you will see that the ignitions points have "point bounce", where your electronic ignition systems do not and thereby increase the output of the coil.
When comparing the performance of a point system verses an electronic ignition, there is no comparison, EXCEPT quite often you can see the problem with a point ignition. An electronic ignition usually has to be troubleshooted.
 
Point bounce... ??? We are dealing with 1500, 1800, 2100 RPM TRACTOR engines here, not 900 RPM hot-rods!
 
(quoted from post at 01:03:19 11/19/14) Point bounce... ??? We are dealing with 1500, 1800, 2100 RPM TRACTOR engines here, not 900 RPM hot-rods!
n E.I., these forums have me convinced, too. Convinced that E.I. is for some folks & not for some folks.
 
What you're calling "point bounce" is the normal transient response of the LRC circuit formed by the ignition coil and condensor. It exists also with solid state ignition systems.
 

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