Electric Power To New Garage

I know this has been discussed many times, so I'll provide a few facts and questions anyway.

I will be running electric to my new garage.

-110 feet from Main (in house) to 100 amp sub panel in garage. I have a 200 amp service panel.
-Running underground in conduit
-Also phone wire in conduit

Questions;
-Wire gauge size, thinking? 2-2-2-4 Aluminum
-Conduit size? thinking 2" PVC
-Sub panel "Not bonded"?
-No driven ground rod at sub panel?
-100 amp breaker in main panel as well as sub panel?

Thanks in advance for your input.
 
(quoted from post at 13:43:47 11/08/14) I know this has been discussed many times, so I'll provide a few facts and questions anyway.

I will be running electric to my new garage.

-110 feet from Main (in house) to 100 amp sub panel in garage. I have a 200 amp service panel.
-Running underground in conduit
-Also phone wire in conduit

Questions;
-Wire gauge size, thinking? 2-2-2-4 Aluminum
-Conduit size? thinking 2" PVC
-Sub panel "Not bonded"?
-No driven ground rod at sub panel?
-100 amp breaker in main panel as well as sub panel?

Thanks in advance for your input.

According to code and the laws of physics. That phone cable has to go elsewhere. Technically it's not even supposed to be in the same trench.
It's good to see somebody who is going to run enough power instead of the absolute minimum they need for this week.
All panels downstream of the main panel are supposed to float the neutral away from ground.
Two ground rods at each sub panel located in separate structures . All grounds tied together common across all three panels. This establishes a common ground plane across the entire customer side of the utility .
 
I will address a few questions, the wire size (I like copper, but use anti oxidant and correct torque and approved lugs and terminals for aluminum as I'm sure you're already well aware) and conduit fill and voltage drops are easy to look up. I assume none of the PVC conduit is under a driveway because that requires encasement or more protection.

If you come up from underground (wide sweeping L) outside the building and rise and say turn into the building using an LB, I always specified Rigid or IMC Conduit for better protection in that external application with of course, the correct plastic end bushings for wire protection.

I could swear I always specified THWN conductors for wet and damp locations but my friend the good Dusty Man (retired electrician) tells me its the same as THHN and they're the same AND I BELIEVE HIM OVER MY OLD MEMORY CELLS LOL


1) Sub panel "Not bonded"?

YES Neutral Buss is NOT bonded to the Equipment Grounding Buss at that sub panel. Of course, the metal tub/pan of the panel is bonded to the Equipment Ground buss.

2) No driven ground rod at sub panel?

WRONG each buildings electrical service requires grounding to a proper (check local codes) Grounding Electrode which may consist of metallic water pipes or buildings structural steel or "made" electrodes such as copper rod or rods driven into mother earth. I always used every readily available electrode.


3) 100 amp breaker in main panel as well as sub panel?

YES That's how I would do it

4) I wouldn't put the phone wire in with the power

See if other sparkies agree or disagree or need to add to this, there are some good current practicing professional electricians in here, I'm long retired and rusty on latest codes.

John T
 
Codes must vary from region to region. Is code a recommendation or a law? A union electrician wired my pole barn from house the exact same way you posted. I even asked my county building inspector about adding a grounding rod at the barn, he said NO. There are those who say otherwise, but if anyone wants, I have my inspectors cell # and you can call him and set him straight. My inspector worked for the power company for 30 years, retired and became our county inspector.

So code or not, I would ask your inspector how he wants it. Ask your union guys how they do it. Union guys have to have their work inspected and it must pass before the power company will turn it on. So where I live, three different groups in agree on placement of grounding rod, union electricians who actually attend classes to get their cards, power company, and the building inspector.

I put my electric line, phone line and plastic water line in the same trench, no conduit at 3 ft, seperated them. I like having water at pole barn. Forget phone line. I use wireless security and got rid of landline.
George
 
(quoted from post at 16:32:49 11/08/14) Codes must vary from region to region. Is code a recommendation or a law? A union electrician wired my pole barn from house the exact same way you posted. I even asked my county building inspector about adding a grounding rod at the barn, he said NO. There are those who say otherwise, but if anyone wants, I have my inspectors cell # and you can call him and set him straight. My inspector worked for the power company for 30 years, retired and became our county inspector.

So code or not, I would ask your inspector how he wants it. Ask your union guys how they do it. Union guys have to have their work inspected and it must pass before the power company will turn it on. So where I live, three different groups in agree on placement of grounding rod, union electricians who actually attend classes to get their cards, power company, and the building inspector.

I put my electric line, phone line and plastic water line in the same trench, no conduit at 3 ft, separated them. I like having water at pole barn. Forget phone line. I use wireless security and got rid of landline.
George

Overhead triplex or four wires ? It would appear that somebody is treating the system as triplex while avoiding energizing the surrounding water bowls and stalls.
 
Thanks for the feedback. The county inspector is the one who told me NO ground rod at the sub panel in garage.

I guess I really don't need to understand why, just so I pass their inspection.

My main concern was wire sizing.

Again, Thank you :)
 
I decided to google NEC. Here is what I found.

The National Electrical Code (NEC), or NFPA 70, is a regionally adoptable standard for the safe installation of electrical wiring and equipment in theUnited States. It is part of the National Fire Codes series published by theNational Fire Protection Association (NFPA), a private trade association.[1]Despite the use of the term "national", it is not a federal law. It is typically adopted by states and municipalities in an effort to standardize their enforcement of safe electrical practices.[2] In some cases, the NEC is amended, altered and may even be rejected in lieu of regional regulations as voted on by local governing bodies.
The "authority having jurisdiction" inspects for compliance with these minimum standards.


SOOOO, BOTTOM LINE KEEP THE BUILDING INSPECTOR HAPPY.


JohnT and I live about 100 miles apart and my inspector only wants one ground rod. I'm guessing the power company may have something to say with how many rods are required, because they have the most to lose when lightning strikes the power lines. Again this is just my guess. After you get inspected, I don't see why you can't do what you want. There are no federal laws, no NEC code cops I'm aware of.
George
National Electrical Code
 
Not sure if Tom from Buckeye Lake is planning to
have water bowls or stalls in his new garage.

The last thing I want to do is have animals in my
pole barn.

Having extra grounding rods isn't required where
I live, however if I were getting shocked, bet
the bank I would be addressing the issue. BTW, I
have all my circuits in pole barn GFCI protected
and I have never been shocked.

Read my post above, NEC isn't a federal law.
Local codes can vary too.
George
 
I agree big time, codes and which version or none at all etc etc varies from state and county.

CONSULT LOCAL AUTHORITY AND DO AS THEY SAY NOTTTTT WHAT ANYONE HERE SAYS INCLUDING ME if they say DO NOT ground a buildings electrical service then I would do as they say!!!!

That being said, I've never seen any jurisdiction that doesn't require EACH AND EVERY BUILDINGS ELECTRICAL SERVICE TO BE GROUNDED

AND I ALWAYS SPECIFIED A GROUNDING ELECTRODE AT ANY BUILDINGS ELECTRICAL SERVICE (but that was in Indiana, maybe other states don't require service grounding??? I wouldn't bet a dime lol)

If anyone would please site me any electrical codes, state or national, NEC or Chicago or any that's does NOT require a buildings electrical service to be grounded ID LOVE TO SEE IT I'm never too old to learn so please educate me about any code that says its okay if a service isn't grounded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS for safety even if the code didn't require it, Id sure ground any electrical service, but yall are free not to or do so as you please, its your life and building at risk, not mine

John T Too long retired and not up on the latest codes, so if grounding a service got thrown out its a new one on me lol
 
ONE MORE THING

If the sub panel is in the same building NO ADDITIONAL GROUNDING ELECTRODE IS REQUIRED

If in a different building GROUNDING IS REQUIRED

That's how I recall, again if its changed please cite me the code section as I always like to learn new things.

John T
 
When I ran 100 amp power the 220 ft to my pole
barn from my 200 amp house service, I used two 2/0
and one 1 aluminum buried in a 2" conduit.
I placed a telephone line and coax cable (each in
it's own conduit) along with the water line on the
opposite side in the same ditch.
This was in '95.
About 10 years ago after frequenting this site for
some time, I decided it would behoove me to
separate the neutral and ground in the sub-panel
and run a ground wire directly back to the main
panel. I was fortunate enough to get #4 bare
copper before the price went sky high.
I believe the copper wire in itself should be
ground enough for the out building but I had
already burried about 50 ft of old copper
lightning rod wire around the location of the
"drywell" when I had the building built. Just to
be on the safe side, I also drove a 10 ft ground
rod when I added the ground wire.
Thanks to John T and others I "saw the light" when
it comes to having a separate ground and neutral
at the outbuilding. The fact that my telephone,
water and coax are in the same ditch (right or
wrong) doesn't concern me a whole lot.
 
You're sure welcome. If you missed my other post below:

If the new sub panel is in a part of the same structure NO ADDITIONAL GROUNDING ELECTRODE IS REQUIRED.

IF ITS IN A SEPARATE BUILDING, GROUNDING IS REQUIRED

At least that's how it was for years but maybe its been changed???? so no warranty and again it depends on local codes, I spoke about Indiana

John T
 
Where I practiced in Indiana we drove one ground rod, if it didn't pass we drove another, but we went required to drive more after that.

We bonded to EVERY READILY AVAILABLE GROUNDING ELECTRODE such as metal water pipes and structural steel and to "made" electrodes such as driven into earth copper rods.

John T
 
JohnT,
Perhaps your inspector uses a meter to determine how good your ground is. My inspector on one occasion was going to hospital for heart surgery, he did my inspection over the phone. He asked if I knew what I was doing and passed it without even looking at it.

I've never had an inspector do anything more than look at the work, absolutely no measuring, testing, nothing. Looks only at ruff wiring before you put up drywall, that's it.

So, as the ariticle said, NEC code be changed by local codes, no one universal standard. It all boils down to what your inspector wants. Then once you get a green sticker, you do what you want, no code police to arrest you.
George
 
I know enough about electrical wiring to keep my fingers off, let the pro guys do it.
About elec & phone in the same trench, I worked phone cable way back in my military years. We followed Bell Tel & REA specs. Codes & best practices may have changed since 1965.
In overhead service- 4 feet seperation.
In direct burial or conduit- 4 inches concrete or 12 inches soil seperation.
This was to prevent 110/220 AC induction onto 48 volt DC phone seervice.
Got bit a few times on supposedly dead phone lines that had picked up AC induction from nearby power lines.

Willie
 
The "code" is an interesting thing. It is subject to the interpretations of anyone who is currently in the proper seat. I have known many electricians, and just because someone worked for a utility for a number of years doesn't mean that much to me as utilities were exempt for a long time from the NEC (until OSHA for the most part) and followed only the NESC- which is an entirely different routine. Having years of experience in transmission or distribution doesn't translate to any knowledge of residential or commercial installations past the meter base.

I have known people on the committees of many parts of the NFPA and mostly the word "cluster" comes to mind. If you have been in or around the military maybe the concept of "positional intelligence" (that a private at the Pentagon is somehow smarter than an installation commander elsewhere) may convey my thoughts more readily.

I truly wish that less emphasis was place on the magic side and more on the heat and lightning side of things. Safety and smoke control should be the priorities. As in all things, once an empire is established, it must continue to grow or it will die. Just because a building inspector, union or non-union electrician, or guy in a white pick-up truck says it's good doesn't really mean anything.

Just my 2 cents.
 
The situation with my shop was similar to your garage. Just over 100 feet from the house and a 100 amp panel in the shop. I had some help from my stepson, who's a licensed electrician.

Rather than use the house panel (which is in an inconvenient spot), we double-tapped the meter and added a second service disconnect for the shop. Wiring to the shop is four strands of AWG 2 aluminum USE-2 (Underground Service Equipment), direct burial, using conduit only where it comes out of the ground at either building.

I originally grounded the building using the two frostproof yard hydrants I'd installed inside and outside the shop. The inspector failed that, and insisted I add two ground rods, eight feet apart. I'd say it's very well grounded now, although it's difficult for me to believe the ground rods are an improvement over the yard hydrants.
 
No conduit needed for direct-burial type aluminum cable type URD (bundled USE cables). I just installed one to a pole barn. 125 feet. Only conduit required is where it comes out of the ground. AWG #2 will give you a 3% voltage drop when running at the max of 100 amps. That's acceptable. Most applications require you to use the main ground system at the 200 amp main panel. Some farm wiring applications allow a separate ground at the branch panel. I don't know what version of code your area uses and if you care.
 
If the NEC is adopted by your area authority, they can add to NEC making a rule greater than NEC but not less than NEC.

Until a couple of code updates ago, out buildings were allowed to be fed with only 3 wires.

PVC conduit is not very expensive. If the day comes when you need to change the wire, it saves a lot of work. And I like to over size buried conduit. Some day you may want more power.
I worked on one job where all panel conduit feeders were over sized one size. The wire sure pulled a lot easier.

I've seen a lot of direct buried AL wire go bad, the insulation gets a pin small puncture wound hole in it and the aluminum disappears.

If you use steel conduit, you don't need to have a ground wire. The conduit is the ground.
Check this before doing it. Like John T, it's been a long time.


Dusty
 
Good points, just to add a bit and clarify for the benefit of some here:

"Most applications require you to use the main ground system at the 200 amp main panel."

ALL (not "most" in my experience and jurisdiction at least, unless the code has changed, so no warranty and it depends on local authority and local rules and which, if any, version of codes they may or may not have adopted) buildings electrical services require Grounding, and as required a Neutral to earth ground connection is usually at one of three locations:

1) The aerial service drop where the Utility Neutral connects to the customers Neutral up at the weatherhead; 2) Inside the meter base; 3) Inside the main service entrance panelboard.


"Some farm wiring applications allow a separate ground at the branch panel".

YES in agricultural applications for buildings containing livestock. A ground can be used to maintain the metallic case/frames (where old bossys nose touches) electrical devices such as say automatic heated waterers at the same potential as earth upon which the animals feet are in contact so they dont get a tingle shock when touching the device.

OF COURSE any separate outbuildings (farm or non farm or other use) electrical service requires grounding and in addition, farm buildings used to house livestock have some special rules and exceptions concerning the ground you mentioned.

Best wishes yall, hope this helps

John T
 
You say you've seen direct-buried aluminum go
bad. So have I. You did NOT mention however, if
it was wire designed for direct burial with no
conduit. I've yet to come across direct buried
URD cable with any problems unless physically
damaged by something like a backhoe or post-
hole digger. Or a bad underground splice. It's
called "Underground Residential Distribution"
cable for a reason. If it has the proper USE or
RHW conductors, it's made for the job. As to
code and grounds? Electric code is not legally
binding. It is a book full of suggestions. It
becomes law when some government agency adopts
it and codifies it. Versions of what is
codified very by state, county, etc.
 
We built a new house this year. Phone and electric were plowed in together so apparently not a problem with code. I would put in the phone cable even if you choose not to use it now, it will be there later if you change your mind.
 
Love to read these threads as it reinforces my knowledge of electrical wiring. An interesting side note about residential wiring: I traveled to Evanston,IL on Friday to help my daughter house-hunt as she's relocating from Washington DC in the next month or so. Saw 7 houses in 4 hrs. ("Which one was it that had the funny basement stairs?" :lol: ) My job was to look for major structure issues ("Needs a roof"). Hers was whether she liked it or not. ("Cute yard and location but not a fan of the ugly wallpaper".)

Anyway, EVERY house we looked at had decent electrical service to my surprise. Grounded outlets in all. The oldest house we looked at was built in 1925 and the newest in the 1940's. You could see some remnants of knob-and-tube. Also, there was no romex, everything was in conduit or armored cable. That must be a Chicago code, wife said probably due to the great Chicago fire. I fully expected to see fuses and 2-pronged outlets in some. Must be quite a job for a Chicago electrician to be renovating some of those older buildings, trying to get conduit through walls. ($$$$)

Most of the homes had added sump-pumps and there was evidence that those basements had new drain pipes put around the inside perimeter. One house even had the basement excavated 3-4 feet to give a full 8 ft ceiling. Can't imagine the cost of that job. All homes were around 1800-2300 sq ft. and between $550k and $600k. That was hard for me to comprehend as I own 2 homes plus 55 acres for a retirement home in Michigan that altogether cost me less than that, (albeit over the years).

Ended up being down to 2 homes and she put an offer on the one within walking distance to the Northwestern University campus and downtown Evanston. Hence, she's paying a LOT for location.

Another interesting thing: I was amazed at homes asking $600k with missing door knobs on closets or other trivial things. C'mon people go to Home Depot and buy a door-knob.
 
The reason in the school of thought having no rods at the outer buiding is if the ground going to the main grounding in the main panel is lost and then there is a fault at the outer building the panel will dump current into the earth around the rod. Any people , children, or animals in contact with the soil can recieve a fatal shock.The theory is all grounding must be targeted to the main ground "target". The other school of thought is more rods the better and what are the odds of the ground in the pipe rotting out then having a fault at the building. But it has caused fatalities according to EC&M magazine.
 
JML, Knob and Tube, I was involved in the rewire of our Masonic Lodge building. The 3rd floor was added in 1894 and we had no idea when the Knob and Tube was installed.

I was the lucky guy in the attic pulling wire. Our building has a slate roof BTW 55 feet to the gutter. I came out looking like an old time coal miner. I was amazed of the amount of dirt in there and the roof didn't leak. Found a few treasures up there. Four old Ames swords dated 1832 and some old Ivory pool balls with rack.

Our Building is on the left in the picture.
a173732.jpg
 
I used direct burial aluminum for the 750' to my outbuilding. Worked great for 10 years, then problems started. I ended up digging it up and installing pvc conduit, large conduit. My experience suggests direct burial is a mistake, which I've seen others to have. The insulation is nothing like the long-lasting coating around my electric coop's wire.

For the low cost of pvc, I wouldn't take that risk, wouldn't have then if both the building inspector and the electrical supplier hadn't told me it was fine to direct bury. Not good advice.

This was through a mature forest and the coop was extremely picky about what the backfill looked like. Same trench.
 
I agree, regardless how well any direct buried cable may be made or rated and especially as time passes, its hard to beat burying conduit then pulling cable through it for improved protection, better longevity and less problems. Then if there's a problem assuming the conduit is still good, simply replace the cable. Its sort of a pay me now (cost of conduit) versus pay me later (when direct buried cable fails).

John T
 
To get away from the issues discussed here like "who likes what" or "who prefers what", the plain fact is this. URD aluminum cable made up of USE strands is absolutely rated for direct burial with NO conduit. Whether you choose to add it, or like it better is another matter. Conduit IS require where it leaves the ground and enters a box. Anecdotal stories about one job failing without specifics are kind of useless. Same sort of stories exist for just about any material or installation method.
 
jdemaris, I offered exactly what you asked for. This cable was rated direct burial. It failed, in several places, with an inspected installation. That is not unusual here. That rating worked, for a decade.

If your only interest is short term, you're fine.
 
Lets examine this:

You state: "the plain fact is this. URD aluminum cable made up of USE strands is absolutely rated for direct burial with NO conduit."

I SURE AGREE

"Whether you choose to add it, or like it better is another matter."

I SURE AGREE

"Conduit IS require where it leaves the ground and enters a box."

I SURE AGREE


"Anecdotal stories about one job failing without specifics are kind of useless. Same sort of stories exist for just about any material or installation method."

I DISAGREE

Many of the fine gents here, trying their best to help, very often offer antecdotal stories about some material or method failing I DONT THINK SUCH IS USELESS (I guess we disagree there with all due respect) no more then another antecdotal story about a material or method that proved satisfactory.

People who try to help and offer some antecotal experience REGARDLESS IF SAME OR OPPOSITE FROM ANOTHER PERSONS EXPERIENCE is NOT useless in my opinion. I just don't think its a bad thing nor is it useless to offer the antecdotal results a person had regardless if its the same or exact opposite another person had with some product or way of doing things.

Just because you post an antecdotal story that you had good experience with direct burial aluminum, should others be forbidden to post an antecdotal story about some bad experience with direct burial aluminum ?? Or why they don't like it??

Should others not be permitted to post an alternative method and why they think its superior??? Or must they just shut up because another first posted his or her preferred method??

With all due respect and NOT to argue, I'm here to help NOT fight lol I guess I respectfully DISAGREE with your statement that

"some antecdotal story about one job failing without specifics are kind of useless"

I say thanks to all who take the time to post and submit their antecdotal stories and they have that right to do so even if it contradicts another persons antecdotal story. Were here to help each other and just because one person posts an antecdotal story I don't think opposing antecdotal stories are useless

That's my story and Ima stickin to it

With all due respect and God Bless all who post an antecdotal story, whether or not its useless is open to opinion, but I'm sure not here to judge and say it is.

John T
 
Tom, in almost 40 years in the trade, I likewise have heard and observed plenty of times an underground direct burial installation failed and times when it has succeeded AND IT DOESNT MATTER IF THE CABLE AND METHOD WERE ALL APPROVED OR NOT. Some people have had good experience with APPROVED direct buried aluminum and some people have had bad experience SIMPLE AS THAT.

John T
 
I use a lot of direct burial aluminum, and have had a failure do to a pin hole in the insulation. It is a tough sell to justify the extra cost of putting it in conduit.
 
David, For sure its gonna cost more to bury conduit then using direct burial. Of course if conduit is used that can change the type and cost of the conductors therein, like most engineering and cost calculations, there are trade offs. It costs more initially to do the conduit thing but if there's a failure and if direct burial is more prone to fail then if conductors are placed in conduit (NOTE I'm NOT saying it is or it isn't so keep calm and dont anyone have a calf now lol) its easier to just pull new wires through. TO EACH HIS OWN PREFERENCE AND HIS FINANCES

As far as people who had reported no failures versus people who have, I think the installation and type of earth such as sand or clay and rocks or no rocks and the backfill procedures used and the geological nature of the earth in particular areas has as much or more to do with performance and longevity then the cable itself.

Vey fun and informative discussion, thanks to all who provided insight and inputs and related their experiences, good or bad. Keep them cards and letters comin

John T
 
Actually, copper is the preferred method. I've seen 1/2 x 8 ft rod used and Ive seen 5/8 used, local jurisdiction and authority may vary. There's also regulations as to what maximum angle may be employed to get the full 8 ft driven into the earth.

Neutral to mother earth Grounding is to control spikes and current surges and common low voltage grid reference (done BOTH at utility transformer and again at main panel or close thereby) while Equipment Grounding is for conducting fault current.

John T
 
You did not state what specific type of cable and what rating conductors it had. Also did not describe exactly what caused the failure. Mechanical damage? Improper weather proofing? A quality control issue? Incorrect application? I put a 100 amp service under the highway connecting my house to a barn 40 years ago. Used direct-buried 2-2-2-4 aluminum with USE conductors. Still working fine. That is one of my "anecdotal" stories. Also probably just about every 100 and 200 amp overhead service connection in my area is aluminum. Not buried, though.

I find it kind of amazing that so many people talk about NEC code when it comes to electric wiring (although NEC has no legal force) - yet choose to ignore it in this particular circumstance. NEC states that direct burial of URD cable with USE aluminum conductors is approved. Many, many installations have been done with no problems. And yeah, some DO have problems as can be had with any material.

When I bought the small farm I'm at now in Michigan the power in one barn did not work. Under a load - one leg had 80 volts and the other around 10 volts. So I had to dig it all up and lo and behold the problem was an aluminum cable that had turned to white dust. The problem was that someone drilled through it with a post-hole auger. Then fixed it with a by twisting the wire together and wrapping it up with duct tape. So there's another anecdote. I got some aluminum approved water-proof splicers and fixed it.
 
I did my garage(40X60) 30 years ago and is simular to what your doing. I have 200 amp service in house and ran 100amp to garage 80 FT. from house. I ran copper under ground wire through 6" pvc heavy walled plastic and did use a ground rod. I ran the 6" pvc with the intention of someday running phone but with cell phones now its not going to happen.
 
Buckeye Tom:

Thank you for the picture, it has just restored my faith in the females of the species - ie: full length dresses with petticoats underneath.

In my area it's a snowy day in Hades when you see a woman wearing a dress. Also, fully 10% of the women in my area are 300 pound plus Hippos that seem to delight in going out in public wearing Shorts or cut-off Jeans that are 10 sizes TOO SMALL, or Micro-Mini-Skirts and Fishnet Tops with NO BRA ! (Gag, Choke, Puke !)

Doc
 
Live in Lancaster since 1999, grew up in Canal Winchester.
Need to get down to Somerset in August for the Cub Tug. missed the last two
 
If you do use conduit the whole way be sure to use expansion joints where it comes out of the ground. If applicable they are for when the ground freezes and heaves and breaks things that are attached to the buildings. I would recommend putting it in conduit even though the inspectors "here" say it is not rated to be in continuous conduit. As far as ground rods, I would use one at the garage but comply with your local authorities. I did a job once where I nicked just the outer insulation, not to the wire or even close, and in 10 months it corroded and failed. Typically the problems here are with rodents like gophers or moles or rats that are burrowing and when they hit the loose dirt of a trench they follow it and chew on the insulation causing it to fail prematurely. An article I read once about power distribution lines claimed that the lifespan of overhead lines was about 40 years while underground was only 20.
 
For sure expansion joints can save broken conduit or wires and proper use of the plastic bushings so wire doesn't scrape any sharp conduit edges is important. I used Rigid (NOT plastic) where the conduit exited and came up say the outside of a building. If plastic conduit passed under a driveway I specified it be concrete encased.

As far using a ground rod I agree with you big time as I've yet to ever see any code or any inspector in any state that didn't require a buildings electrical service to be locally earth grounded to a proper grounding electrode, be it a water pipe of structural steel or a "made" electrode such as driven into the earth copper rods. I defy anyone to show me any code that says no ground is necessary at a buildings electrical service!!!

Perhaps Billy Bob is confused because at a sub panel in the same building NO GROUND ROD IS REQUIRED as far as I know unless things have changed so as always no freaking warranty.

Fun and informative chat, thanks to all for inputs. I enjoy this and try my best to help whenever I can even though Im old n rusty grrrrrrrrr lol

John T
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top