JOB

Member
Here is a interesting saw rig that was home built with no thought of which way the blade would spin after it was built. It's for sale on craigs list now. Buyer beware
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Buyer beware of what? Don't you see the set of the saw teeth? Its a belt rig, twist the belt to oppose the drive. The Seller should beware of people who don't know what they are talking about downgrading his equipment.
 
We used a crossed belt to drive the threshing machine. Dad would never use a 2-cylinder tractor on the thresher because they would cause the belt to "slap" and the loud noise would cause some teams of horses to runaway with the bundle wagon, often resulting in a wrecked wagon bed.
 
My first thought was same as everyone else's. Put a twist in the belt. What's for a buyer to beware?

With the blade guard, it looks a heckuva lot safer than a lot of buzz saws I've seen.
 
I had thought of a twist also Like I have seen on the threshing machines. Can you put a belt on with the engine and put a twist in it. Don't think so.
Don't know how a belt tightener would like that twist. Don't know if there is a tightener or not because you can't see whats on the other side because of the blade and guard.
That is a crank start Wisconsin, Lets see anyone crank start that engine with a tight belt.
My first saw rig was a flat belt drive saw powered with a crank start 30 horse VP4 Wisconsin. The Man who could start that with a crank and the belt on I would call Sir and have the utmost respect for him. The one in the picture is a VE4 or maybe the 25 horse version. Either way I would like to see someone start it with the belt tight using a crank.
 
And if you want to get real picky look at the size of the pulleys. the engine pulley looks a lot larger in diameter than the driven. If that engine was ran at 1800 rpm or so the saw would be running in excess of the rim speed of 10,000 feet per minute.
 
I had thought of a twist also, was thinking the pulleys were too close???? See a magneto so it most likely is crank start. A starter could have been added that you can't see on the other side. Don't see a battery, but maybe it's hidden in the picture. Don't really see how you could start it with a crank with nothing to stand on either. I feel it would be a hard start with a starter motor and a tight belt, if it would start. Look at the pulley sizes, the engine should have a pulley smaller than the saw shaft to get proper rim speed for the saw.

My current saw has a starter motor and clutch. With the clutch engaged and press the starter button the starter sure knew the saw was engaged. I did not run the starter long enough to see if the engine would start. Engine was turning a lot slower than it should have been.
 
If you look closely between the engine and the saw , there is a slide to loosen the belt for starting. A Wisconsin with a good hot mag is not hard starting with a crank until you kill it hot.
 
Goose, here are a couple of guards, on a buzz saw what do you think of them. A tilting or a swing guard on the cutting edge I think would be a hazard.
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Maybe I am seeing a part of the horse in the
background that blends in with the engine pulley.
 
I use a chainsaw to get the wood into a pile and a buzz saw to make the pieces shorter.And it saves wear and tear on the chain saw. A chain saw might be safer but I feel it is slower. The pile above took four hours to saw the pieces shorter. Takes a little more manpower though. Had one man throwing blocks, one man feeding the saw and three men carrying to the saw. The saw never sat idle more than a couple seconds between cuts, unless we were moving the saw forward.

The second picture shows the pile cut. The lady in the picture is just for fun. She enjoyed being the block thrower but is no longer allowed near the saw while it is running.
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I use chainsaw and buzz saw and one is no more dangerous than the other. If improperly used you can get hurt by both of them.
 
Seriously, there is NO belt tightener on a flat belt. Gravity is your tightener.

A half-twist in a flat belt is normal, and actually keeps the belt from flapping and coming off. It's a buzz saw, not a threshing machine. How much resistance is there with a "tight" belt?

It also looks to me like the engine pulley is SMALLER than the saw pulley. Even if it were bigger, it surely isn't "bigger enough" to push the saw blade anywhere near 10,000 RPM.
 
And the belt will slap just as much with a 4 cylinder tractor., just the way the belt is tightened.
 
The thing I see is there is NO TABLE to hay the wood on and you need that to be able to hold it firm in place for cutting.
 
My uncle had an H farmall with a saw driven off
the flat belt pulley. He had a tightener on
that saw. Another flat belt pulley that sat on
top of the belt near the engine pulley with a
spring to keep tension on the belt. It might have
been next to the saw pulley can't remember,
it's been 45 years and the memory is a little
foggy. On a threshing machine the belt is
long.I was told the weight of the belt keeps it
tight and the pulleys are large in diameter so
that also. A short flat belt will slip if it is
not tight. When I ran a flat belt it would
loosen as it was used. a tension-er would have
been nice. I was told to run one pulley with a
crown and the other flat, the crown keeps the
belt on the pulleys if the belt is tight.

As for the speed of the saw a log saw or a cord
wood saw should have a rim speed in the
neighborhood of 10,000 to 12,000 feet per
minute. That is not shaft RPM's. Saw shaft
rpm's for a 30 inch saw is around 1250 rpm.
That VE4 gets it's horse power at 1800 rpm or
so depending how many horses you want, and what
speed you want the driven to run at. After
looking more closely the engine pulley is a
little smaller. but large enough to get the saw
over speed if the engine is ran at maximum
speed. If the blade is smaller than 30 inches
shaft speed increases.
 
All you need is those 2 slides, one on each side of the blade. You need another person on the end of the longer pieces. If it has a table, the crooked and knotty pieces will bind and pinch the saw. I have sawn with both & it works much better without a table.
 
I have 2 buzz saws and have been around them all my 71 years and would never atempt to use one set up like that, the table is on only one side of the blade and you need more than the 2" it shows to lay the log on. If you know what you are doing then you know how to lay that log on so it will not turn or pinch.
 
(quoted from post at 16:05:53 11/06/14) I use chainsaw and buzz saw and one is no more dangerous than the other. If improperly used you can get hurt by both of them.

Amen. 99%of the people that tell you how dangerous a buzz saw is have never used one. We cut pole wood with the chain saw and buzz it up. Much faster and easier on the back.
 
Leroy, What has always confused me is the table is always between the blade and pulley. You are limited to a four foot piece of wood. If it is longer you will hit the belt or pinch the saw unless it is laying on the table at an angle.
In the picture of the pile of wood we recently sawed some of the pieces would be a challenge for one man to put them on a table safely. They are too long for the table also. Would be a lot easier for two men to carry the piece to the saw and lay it on the support in front of the saw. the lead man then walks away. The man feeding the saw then begins to cut stove length pieces as the second man that carried the piece to the saw holds the end of the piece level so the man feeding the saw can cut without pinching the saw. The man holding the end of the long piece holds it until the man feeding has the last block in his hand or tells the man he can handle what is left. While that piece is being cut two other men have picked up another long piece and carried it to the saw and as soon as the man feeding the saw tosses the last piece from what he was just sawing the next long piece is layed in front of the saw and the process continues. We have sawed a lot of wood that way and the saw is always singing.
The reply to Goose shows the business end of the saw we use to cut with. The process described in the above paragraph works very well with this saw. The man throwing blocks has a large area to stand in without fear of the spinning saw shaft or any problem with belts. This saw works flawless, I would never use a table between the pulley and saw like I have seen on other saw rigs.
 
If you cannot put a 20' long piece on the table and have it laing sollid then the saw is not made correctly, It either does not have the table positioned correctly or it has an oversize pully on it as normally the pully is not in the way. Either way determin what is the problem and then correct the design. The pully should be no bigger than the flanges that hold the blade solid to the shaft. And the table should not let the wood get to within 2" of that flange.
 
Leroy, If you put a 20 foot long six inch diameter piece of wood on a four foot table, with no one holding the end up it should fall off the back of the table. At least that has been my experience. We saw a lot of large diameter pieces and a lot of smaller diameter looooong stuff.

As for the diameter of the saw shaft pulley you need to match the driver with the driven and get a saw blade rim speed of 10,000 to 12,000 feet per minute. 12,000 being the maximum.

So the pulley on the saw shaft can be any number of sizes, depending on the driver size and the rpm of the driver shaft. The saw shaft pulley on my saw is 14 inches. Larger diameter pulleys are less likely to have slip age.

What you do works well for you and the way we saw works well for us. I see no reason for either of us to change.

The rule of thumb that I have used is that the peripheral speed should be around 10,000 feet per minute.
To calculate this is simple - saw diameter in inches divided by 12, now multiply this by 3.14159. You now have your peripheral measurement.
divide this into 10,000 and you have your correct speed. For example, take a 32" saw. 32 divided by 12 = 2.667, multiply this by 3.14159 = 8.378
10,000 divided by 8.378 = 1193 rpm's
Hope this helps.
 

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