Possible Rut Ro for users (abusers?) of Sears

Bob

Well-known Member
Possible Rut Ro for users (abusers?) of Sears tool warantees...

(You don't suppose replacing all the broken tools guys have brought in from junk bins and flea markets had anything to do with their current financial state, do you?)
Sears advised to liquidare...
 
Sears will probably close sometimes next year. It borrowed 400 million to get it through the Christmas season, but that load is secured by Sears's real estate holdings. If they're unable to pay it back, they'll have little choice but to liquidate. Meanwhile, their suppliers are becoming increasingly concerned about non-payment and are finding it impossible to get credit insurance against a Sears default.

I'm sure its lifetime tool replacement policy hasn't helped its bottom line in recent years, Sears's problems are mostly self-inflicted. Chalk up one more one-proud company that was mismanaged into the ground by executives who didn't understand how to do business in the twenty-first century and who were more concerned with their own compensation packages than the health of their company.
 
I doubt tools are the cause. Sears built it's reputation on quality, choice and the mail order business. Yes, you went to Sears when you got to the city, but mail order was the big thing and they had EVERYTHING. When they dropped the catalog sales, when the Sears Big Books ended, that was the beginning of the end.

Sears, Montgomery Wards, Spiegel, the old JC Penny, it was all mail order. Drop the business base and what do you expect to happen.
 
I think your analysis it correct. I think the tool replacement is pretty small potatoes to the financial problem. One thing is that the regulatory environment has changed. Prior to 1980, the justice department kept Sears from knocking off Wards, and GM from crushing it's rivals, thru anti trust regulation. Anti trust activity seems to be targeted to select industries these days?
 
I agree 100%. They dropped the one thing that made them stand apart from the rest. Their catalog sales. People from every corner of the US were able to buy from them and not have to walk into a store to do so. Go look at anyones tool box and you will probably find something from Sears. Think of Sears as the Amazon or Ebay that was ahead of its time.
They should have turned to an internet catalog and kept up with the times.

Their 100% tool policy is what made them famous, not what buried the company.
 
Sad, but likely inevetible. Warranty fraud is, no doubt, contributory.

I have numerous Sears items, some quite old, and use their parts system to conveniently order replacement parts several times each year. I will certainly miss the convenience if the parts business is not maintained.

Legacy costs will eventually eliminate nearly all large US businesses.

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 07:07:56 10/06/14) I doubt tools are the cause. Sears built it's reputation on quality, choice and the mail order business.

They were Amazon, before there was Amazon. The management simply didn't understand and react to the market accordingly. They contracted, then killed the catalog business, when they should have pushed it.
 
I recall as a kid how Sears & Roebuck (loved the catalogs each year) was king and a trip to their store was a treat. However times changed and they failed to adapt and are now paying the ultimate price. Oh Well life for me will go on just the same except I will miss that tool warranty grrrrrrrrrrrr Better search my junk tools and head to their stores soon lol

John T
 
The problem at Sears is multi-fold, but basally comes down to poor management. As times changed the corporate leadership was unable to find a workable business model for them to grow into. When I was a boy Sears was the number one retailer in the US, you went there to get quality goods at a fair price. Many times they ranked their merchandise as "Good" "Better" and "Best" giving you the opportunity to decide what level of quality you wanted. Craftsman tools were well respected. Sears did successfully transition from Mail order to onsite retail, but that was the beginning of the end for them. In the 1970's they decided to re-make their image and moved up market, a tactic that didn't work well for them. Basic problem was the public's perception of them wasn't upmarket. They might of been better off launching or purchasing another retail conduit to service the upmarket market and make better use of their supply and logistics systems. Sears went through a period where they couldn't see a future in retail and morphed to a financial services provider owning Allstate insurance and IRRC a brokerage. That didn't work well they were retailers and didn't really understand in financial services it's more about people and less about the product. This was at a time that Walmart started their tremendous growth often in cities that Sears was pulling out of or back in. Walmart made some pretty impressive gains in US retail mostly because they were the first to really understand the power of computers in retail, with Sears management missing that concept hampered their ability to stand or grow against competitors who did get it, in the end it challenges their ability to survive. Sears closed their mail order division and within ten years bought Land's End to get back into mail order totally missing the whole explosive growth in mail order of the 80's and 90's. Home Depot, Lowes and Menard's all blossomed all at a time that Sear's was retracting from those markets. If Sears had competent management they would be a major player in the home improvement market. I also look at Car-Max and some other automotive sales service and rental facilities and wonder why Sears wasn't able to get into and prosper in those areas. I look at the Growth that W.W. Grainger, Fastenal and McMaster-Carr have had in industrial sales in the last 20 years and wonder why one of the big boys in retail (like Sears) didn't get on that wagon. Why didn't Sears get into tool trucks like Snap On , MAC Matco or Cornwall?

I think the major problem at Sears as been the corporate office's basic inability to understand the value of people in the field and in their stores and what those people ad in value to the product being sold. They focused on product, eventually on product cost at the sake of quality and moved away from a concept of value and service. So much of their leadership became MBA types who never spent time on a retail floor or on a farm (remember Sears farm catalogs?), or in a service bay or where their product was used. They lost that connection with the customer.

Sears was unique in that they had brands like Craftsman, Kenmore, Ted Williams and others but never made any product. They weren't astute enough to protect the value of those brand names.
 
How can you say that dropping catalog sales is what killed Sears when that's all Montgomery Wards ever did, and they've been long gone for decades?

Sears didn't drop catalog sales to be mean. They did it because they weren't making enough, if any, money at it to make it worthwhile to continue.

Improvements in transportation through the 1950's and 1960's brought stores to the people, and people to the stores. They could actually see and feel what they were buying instead of going by some pencil drawing in a catalog.

THAT is what killed Sears catalog sales, not short-sightedness.

If anything, Sears probably waited too long to end catalog sales. They steadfastly held on as the market was circling the toilet out of loyalty to a certain segment of customers.

Sears' problem is that they've been a step behind everyone else for close to 40 years now, and it's finally come to a head.
 
I fully agree with you. Sears, Roebuck and Company's biggest competitor is Wal*Mart. Sears refusal to understand this is directly a product of believing they had a 'lock' on everything they sold. Back in the seventies, Sears was a destination for my family, both direct and in-law. I fully believe that the 'gurus' operating Sears never had family, much less an education, involved in retail business. Me? I was employed with Western Auto and watched them fold up because of the same 'wisdom'. Our biggest competitor back then was the Firestone stores that were similar to Western Auto in what they sold. When a store or individual becomes beholden to a loan company, their days are numbered.
 
There were many things that combined to cause problems for Sears, one of which was their product support. People used to purchase sears products knowing they could get whatever parts they needed for the life of the item. Around 15 years ago or so they changed that policy, and reduced much of the parts availability to 5 years. Roughly 10 or 12 years ago my mother needed an access door gasket for an LP wall furnace. It was a high temp. fire box gasket, so it was not one you could cut out of gasket material. It was no loner available (8 year old furnace), and we ended up having to replace the furnace over a $5 gasket. Neither I or my family have purchased a major item from sears since. I have heard similar stories and results from several people.
 
Good post and I agree with most of what is said. Sears was in an excellent position to take advantage of several "new" markets (mail order, quick lube, DIY home improvement) and left most of those markets or failed to make small modifications just before the going got sweet. Could their timing have been any better to go wrong?
 
Your comments have a lot of merit. I went to work for Sears as a "stop gap" (translate stop starvation) measure right out of college in the 1980's. At the time I was hired there was in the store a general manager and two assistants, personnel manager, credit manager and a large credit department. There was a formal board room in the store where they had management level meetings and posted plaques for employees who exceeded expectations. I was hired by the personnel manager but two weeks later when I started her department was closed and she was the manager of the children's clothing department. I worked in that store for a year while I searched out better employment. The GM and his assistants were phased out. Two left and one took over furnishings. The credit department was taken out of the store along with the cash office at some point and all that space devoted to retail. In the end there was little that qualified as management in the stores. Today all these changes show up in poor service and merchandising. I hate to see Sears go. That year between education and the responsibilities of later life was one of the best I remember.
 
Warranty fraud? Hardly! In their own advertising, Sears took great pride in showing their tools mis-used and abused...always followed by an explanation of the no questions replacement warranty. The tools were good quality, but by no means cheap. Customers paid a premium for the warranty.

IMO, the only fraud is the garbage Sears now replaces tools with. The quality and material are very poor compared to their old tools. Sears products (across the board) in recent years have become nothing but gimmicky junk.
 
(quoted from post at 11:01:54 10/06/14) How can you say that dropping catalog sales is what killed Sears when that's all Montgomery Wards ever did, and they've been long gone for decades?

.

Yet Cabelas, LL Bean, Northern (Hydraulics) Tool and many other near pure catalog stores continue to this day. Cabelas has grown from a 12 page flyer to a hard bound 300 plus page full color catalog. Northern Hydraulics used to be a 20 page newsprint rag. The model works. What Sears, Monkey Wards, etc. missed was the ability to bridge the gap from the end of the mail order era to the internet era. Like others have pointed out, Sears was the Amazon and Ebay of it's day. The Sears, Montgomery Wards and JC Penny catalog stores in the towns I lived in were always busy. To this day people still lament their closing. Yeah, Wallyworld did a job on Sears, but that was partly because Sears shut down the catalogs about 10 years before I saw my first Walmart. The rest was Sears retail stores trying to compete with a lower quality competitor. Nobody can compete with Walmart on price. That's why we went to Sears last year for good towels, for good, heavy duty cookware and flatware. That's stuff we can't get at Walmart and certainly can't afford from some high end Williams Sonoma type outfit. Sears and Pennys, to this day if I want a decent dress shirt that; where I head. I don't think I own a suit coat that doesn't come from Sears or JCP. I would just as soon have bought them from a catalog.
 
The writing was on the wall when they merged with Kmart. Eddie Lambert did a great job with Autozone and thought he could repeat it with Sears and Kmart. I do not understand how you can merge two almost bankrupt companies and end up with hundreds of millions of dollars of equity.
Lambert runs a large hedgefund and has a few other hedgefund friends. I do not understand why the financial analysts can not say when Lambert and friends stop floating Sears the lights will go out amazingly fast.
 

I think the same thing that got sears is going to get NAPA.. Instead of expanding corporate owned stores and building a net work that works together 24/7 they went with mom and pop owned operations and kept the big markets for themselves... I have brought 2 washers a drier and a dish washer in the last few years from sears it took a week for the local mom and pop store to get them in.... Are they that hard to come by :shock:
 
The small hardware/appliance stores with no carts or baskets, and 2 kids working 1 of the 2 registers and not much of a clue about anything in the store. If anyone gets to the register ahead of you, you're stuck standing there holding whatever it is you came for (if they have it) while they get things figured out for the guy ahead of you.
 
My uncle worked for sears back in the 50-60's. As a kid, I remember him saying the end for sears is near. Back then they decided to only hire part time people so Sears didn't have to pay benefits. That was over 50 years ago. I have never been impressed with sears. Do little shopping there.

I do like sears shop vacs and their electric chainsaws. As for their lifetime tools, so what, so does everyone else.

I won't miss sears.
 
(quoted from post at 15:17:36 10/06/14)
(quoted from post at 11:01:54 10/06/14) How can you say that dropping catalog sales is what killed Sears when that's all Montgomery Wards ever did, and they've been long gone for decades?

.

Yet Cabelas, LL Bean, Northern (Hydraulics) Tool and many other near pure catalog stores continue to this day. Cabelas has grown from a 12 page flyer to a hard bound 300 plus page full color catalog. Northern Hydraulics used to be a 20 page newsprint rag. The model works. What Sears, Monkey Wards, etc. missed was the ability to bridge the gap from the end of the mail order era to the internet era. Like others have pointed out, Sears was the Amazon and Ebay of it's day. The Sears, Montgomery Wards and JC Penny catalog stores in the towns I lived in were always busy. To this day people still lament their closing. Yeah, Wallyworld did a job on Sears, but that was partly because Sears shut down the catalogs about 10 years before I saw my first Walmart. The rest was Sears retail stores trying to compete with a lower quality competitor. Nobody can compete with Walmart on price. That's why we went to Sears last year for good towels, for good, heavy duty cookware and flatware. That's stuff we can't get at Walmart and certainly can't afford from some high end Williams Sonoma type outfit. Sears and Pennys, to this day if I want a decent dress shirt that; where I head. I don't think I own a suit coat that doesn't come from Sears or JCP. I would just as soon have bought them from a catalog.

The thing about companies like Cabelas, Bean, Northern, etc. is that they 're all "specialty" stores. As such they were the only place to get certain things, so they had a captive audience to keep them afloat if not profitable.

As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, Sears was the "Amazon" of its day. They sold EVERYTHING. By the 1960s at least, and definitely by the 1970s, there was very little you could get at Sears that you could not get somewhere else, except it would be nicer, cheaper and quicker.

There was a huge gap between the catalog era and the internet era too. Nigh on 30 years by my estimation. That's almost an impossible gap to bridge especially when you stubbornly hold on to the belief that your customers will remain loyal.
 
I have several older Craftsman tools that supposedly have their lifetime warranty.
Wonder if that warranty will be good when Sears files bankruptcy???
From all I read and hear, its just a matter of time--within a year??
 
(quoted from post at 10:45:58 10/08/14)
(quoted from post at 15:17:36 10/06/14)
(quoted from post at 11:01:54 10/06/14) How can you say that dropping catalog sales is what killed Sears when that's all Montgomery Wards ever did, and they've been long gone for decades?

.

Yet Cabelas, LL Bean, Northern (Hydraulics) Tool and many other near pure catalog stores continue to this day. Cabelas has grown from a 12 page flyer to a hard bound 300 plus page full color catalog. Northern Hydraulics used to be a 20 page newsprint rag. The model works. What Sears, Monkey Wards, etc. missed was the ability to bridge the gap from the end of the mail order era to the internet era. Like others have pointed out, Sears was the Amazon and Ebay of it's day. The Sears, Montgomery Wards and JC Penny catalog stores in the towns I lived in were always busy. To this day people still lament their closing. Yeah, Wallyworld did a job on Sears, but that was partly because Sears shut down the catalogs about 10 years before I saw my first Walmart. The rest was Sears retail stores trying to compete with a lower quality competitor. Nobody can compete with Walmart on price. That's why we went to Sears last year for good towels, for good, heavy duty cookware and flatware. That's stuff we can't get at Walmart and certainly can't afford from some high end Williams Sonoma type outfit. Sears and Pennys, to this day if I want a decent dress shirt that; where I head. I don't think I own a suit coat that doesn't come from Sears or JCP. I would just as soon have bought them from a catalog.

The thing about companies like Cabelas, Bean, Northern, etc. is that they 're all "specialty" stores. As such they were the only place to get certain things, so they had a captive audience to keep them afloat if not profitable.

As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, Sears was the "Amazon" of its day. They sold EVERYTHING. By the 1960s at least, and definitely by the 1970s, there was very little you could get at Sears that you could not get somewhere else, except it would be nicer, cheaper and quicker.

There was a huge gap between the catalog era and the internet era too. Nigh on 30 years by my estimation. That's almost an impossible gap to bridge especially when you stubbornly hold on to the belief that your customers will remain loyal.

Sears dropped the catalogs in 1993. The PC craze was in full swing by 95. I think it was more like 5 years at best, not 30. As far as "nicer, cheaper, quicker", well, yeah you could drive 50 or 100 miles and get something quicker, maybe cheaper. But we couldn't afford to get much nicer than Sears, most of us. Maybe your memory of Sears is different than mine, but I never saw their goods as inferior at all, they were fairly if not competitively priced and mail order was mail order no matter where you got it. It took a while.

What tended to kill catalog sales IMO was malls. The mall became a destination on it's own. I can recall when going to the mall was an event. I think that played a part in it.

Personally, I'd just as soon order something than drive 35 miles or more to a stupid mall. And since Borders closed, there's no reason whatsoever for me to step foot in a mall.
 
Naaaah, it's more likely to be Sears refusal to honor its "lifetime gaurantee and the subsequent loss of customer base.
 

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