Water Softeners ?

Billy NY

Well-known Member
The below post sparks my question, how do they actually work, what is the deal with salt in the water, I know the brine tank is what cleans the part that removes minerals, salt would concern me, but I thought that was NOT the case with one of these.

What is the longevity of a softener system and if there is salt present, reverse osmosis or what have you, what can you do for that? Can you test for salt content ?

I've had one here for a long time, I like poland spring water, as much as a cold beer, so I keep some ice cold at all times, reminds me of the spring water at my grandmothers farm in the mountains, that was always cold and good. I've never noticed any difference with the well water taste being salty or anything here, can bypass it and it tastes the same. It's actually a good well, 245'-0" deep, the aquifer is said to be so substantial, the supply is about endless, old well driller said that about this area. Slight hint of sulfur on occasion, other houses in the area do have sulfur that does reek, some don't, our old house down the hill had great well water, here it comes out nice and cold too, but hard, will mineralize the inside of pipes, softener eliminates that.
 
Positive and negative Ion exchange through the membrane. Same principal as electroplating, batteries and chemistry in general.
 
(quoted from post at 13:20:26 08/10/14) Positive and negative Ion exchange through the membrane. Same principal as electroplating, batteries and chemistry in general.

Atoms or molecules that have fewer electrons than protons are positive charged and known as a cations. They are attempting to find an electron or bond with a atom or molecule that is a negative anion that has a surplus of electrons.
So that limestone and calcium in tap water is going to bind with the metal in the radiator core.
Can't seem to get people to understand the importance of using distilled water in batteries and cooling systems. They sure cry a lot however when battery life is short or cooling systems over heat.
 
Softeners use salt water solution during regeneration to remove the minerals,etc., that the softener removed from the water between regeneration. The salt solution is discharged separately and does not increase the salt level in the water that has been through the softener.

The salt solution is just a cleansing agent and does not enter the normal water flow. The salt water goes out through a separate drain. Most manufacturers advise not to dump the salt solution into the septic tank, but several people on this forum have been doing that for years with no detrimental effect.
 
I have been to a number of water conditioning schools and the brine that is in a softener enters the resin tank on the backwash cycle and floods the resin (a piece of resin is about the same size as a large piece of sand and under a microscope looks like a golf ball). The dimples on the resin each hold an ion of calcium (hardness) and when the dimples all get filled up with hardness, it is time for a regeneration which happens through the flooding of the resin with the brine solution. The resin pieces are positively charged and the hardness is negatively charged, but because the sodium ions are so prevalent during the recharging process, the sodium ions knock the hardness (calcium) ions off and replace them with sodium ions. When this process is finished, the little golf balls have their dimples filled with sodium (notice I did not say sodium chloride or salt) ions. Because the sodium ions have a weaker negative charge than the calcium ions, when the softener goes back into service, the incoming hardness or calcium (liquid rock) ions knock the sodium ions off the dimples a little at a time and result in the water tasting kind of flat. The sodium is softer than calcium and wipes off fixtures easier, but again, it is not sodium chloride. I hope this makes it clearer.
 
Drinking the Water from a Softener:You should never drink soft water from a water softener.

In most cases you should never drink soft water from a water softener. By its very nature a water softener is designed to replace hardness with sodium. It is called a one for one ionic exchange. For example if you have 200 PPM of hardness it will be converted to at least 200 PPM of sodium. Our tests show you can expect an additional 20% in residual salt and sodium after that exchange in most cases. In other words 200 PPM of hardness will usually be replaced with 240 PPM of sodium. The EPA maximum contaminant level (MCL) states that the maximum sodium allowed in water is 150 PPM. PPM (parts per million) and MGL (milligrams per liter) are the same. Many states and organizations are now passing laws or are considering state laws limiting sodium to far lower amounts. We think anything over 20-30 PPM or MGL is too high.

If your test results are in GPG (grains per gallon) then you multiply the GPG times 17.1 to determine what the PPM number is. For example: 10 GPG converts to 171 PPM. 171 PPM of hardness is higher than the EPA maximum of 150 so the water would be beyond the MCL (maximum contaminant level) for safe drinking water. Using a water softener as an iron filter greatly increases this number and adds a great deal more residual sodium to the water. That is one of the many reasons you should never use a water softener as an iron filter. If you have an iron problem you should use an iron filter. Then if the water is hard you would add a water softener after that. It is a common marginal practice for in home water treatment salesman to use a water softener as an iron filter. The iron will damage a water softener over time and will probably create expensive service calls; which turns into a lot of unnecessary expense with the company selling the water softener. It is a shame that money means more to them than your family's health.

The main point is this: If the water is high in hardness then once it goes through the water softener it will be high in sodium. If it is not high in hardness then you did not need a water softener to begin with. DON'T drink water that comes out of a water softener. Even if it should be below the MCL for safe drinking water, most people do not want unnecessary amounts of sodium in their drinking water. You don't have to take our word for it either. Just take a sample of any water from a water softener that has high hardness going to it and take it to a lab to test for sodium and salt. The results will speak for themselves.
 

Water softener installer thought I was nuts running a non softened water line. Up to a separate drinking water tap at the kitchen sink.
 
(quoted from post at 16:28:38 08/10/14) Drinking the Water from a Softener:You should never drink soft water from a water softener.

I've been drinking soft water off and on since the 70's.
 
Hmm, I think those dimples hold more than a single ion. And how do the ions know to stick to the dimple and not to the rest of the resin bead? And why would it matter? I think the dimples are just a way to increase the surface area of the bead.
 
I have a water softener, and chlorine injection system. My problem is iron, iron bacteria and sulfur smell. My system is 26 years old.

I went to by a Mahoning stainless steel outdoor wood burner several years ago and the dealer told me to bring a sample of my water. He teasted the water and asked if I had a water sotfener which I told him that I did. He said he could tell that I did by the salt in the water.
He refused to sell me the wood burner because he said the salt would crack the welds.

We no longer drink the water because of the salt.
Although we never tasted the salt, now that we have been drinking spring water, I can taste the salt in the softened when brushing my teeth.
 
(quoted from post at 16:28:38 08/10/14) Drinking the Water from a Softener:You should never drink soft water from a water softener.

In most cases you should never drink soft water from a water softener. By its very nature a water softener is designed to replace hardness with sodium. It is called a one for one ionic exchange. For example if you have 200 PPM of hardness it will be converted to at least 200 PPM of sodium. Our tests show you can expect an additional 20% in residual salt and sodium after that exchange in most cases. In other words 200 PPM of hardness will usually be replaced with 240 PPM of sodium. The EPA maximum contaminant level (MCL) states that the maximum sodium allowed in water is 150 PPM. PPM (parts per million) and MGL (milligrams per liter) are the same. Many states and organizations are now passing laws or are considering state laws limiting sodium to far lower amounts. We think anything over 20-30 PPM or MGL is too high.

If your test results are in GPG (grains per gallon) then you multiply the GPG times 17.1 to determine what the PPM number is. For example: 10 GPG converts to 171 PPM. 171 PPM of hardness is higher than the EPA maximum of 150 so the water would be beyond the MCL (maximum contaminant level) for safe drinking water. Using a water softener as an iron filter greatly increases this number and adds a great deal more residual sodium to the water. That is one of the many reasons you should never use a water softener as an iron filter. If you have an iron problem you should use an iron filter. Then if the water is hard you would add a water softener after that. It is a common marginal practice for in home water treatment salesman to use a water softener as an iron filter. The iron will damage a water softener over time and will probably create expensive service calls; which turns into a lot of unnecessary expense with the company selling the water softener. It is a shame that money means more to them than your family's health.

The main point is this: If the water is high in hardness then once it goes through the water softener it will be high in sodium. If it is not high in hardness then you did not need a water softener to begin with. DON'T drink water that comes out of a water softener. Even if it should be below the MCL for safe drinking water, most people do not want unnecessary amounts of sodium in their drinking water. You don't have to take our word for it either. Just take a sample of any water from a water softener that has high hardness going to it and take it to a lab to test for sodium and salt. The results will speak for themselves.

Bison, you left out one little detail. Unless the softener has been programmed wrong, After the salt flushes the cal-mag away there is another flush where almost all the salt is removed
 
(quoted from post at 17:21:36 08/10/14)
(quoted from post at 16:28:38 08/10/14) Drinking the Water from a Softener:You should never drink soft water from a water softener.

[b:4c6b1905bf]I've been drinking soft water off and on since the [/b:4c6b1905bf]70's.
here's people that been drinking beer or coke or rotgut all their life as well.
Most have now health issues.
Beer gut(they have not seen their pekker in many years)
Diabetes.
High blood pressure,
Etc etc.

I have a softener and find the water to salty,..i NEVER drink it.
 
Recently, I had a customer of mine as me to figger out why the water pressure was so low in the upstairs bathroom sinks and showers.

I put a pressure gage at various points along his in-house plumbing system.

I discovered the inlet water pressure at his Lancaster(tm) water softener was the same at the water pump. However the pressure on the outlet of the softener was about 1/2 the normal inlet pressure.

I made arrangements with the manufacturer to take the softener to their factory and have it flushed and cleaned.

First time for me to see the normal preventative maintenance actually being done. I saw those small beads and I first thought that I discovered gold. About a bucket full.

The service guy said that the softener was really dirty. Well, after all it was the first time in 30 yrs. or so that the tank was taken apart, flushed, and new "beads" installed.

I re-installed the softener tank and the water pressure was back to normal.

The Lancaster(tm) pump representative advised me to "stick to the old doctor's advise" and get my drinking water direct from the well.

Moral to the story: We only soften the cold water that supplies the water heater, and/or the cold water supply to hot water furnace systems.

John,PA
 
(quoted from post at 21:58:21 08/10/14)
(quoted from post at 17:21:36 08/10/14)
(quoted from post at 16:28:38 08/10/14) Drinking the Water from a Softener:You should never drink soft water from a water softener.

[b:8e39f8bbdf]I've been drinking soft water off and on since the [/b:8e39f8bbdf]70's.
here's people that been drinking beer or coke or rotgut all their life as well.
Most have now health issues.
Beer gut(they have not seen their pekker in many years)
Diabetes.
High blood pressure,
Etc etc.
___________________________________________________

Some people can do what most believe is the right thing to do healthwise and yet they succumb to some disease or another while others will do what they want and live on. Just sayin....
___________________________________________________

I have a softener and find the water to salty,..i NEVER drink it.
 
I've been drinking softened water all my 51 years. No health issues what so ever. My water is about 15 grains per gallon hard. The sodium added to a gallon of water of that hardness is far less than the sodium in one hot dog.

I have drank soft water over in the Austin Tx area that hinted of salt. That water tested 110 grains hard. The harder the water the more added sodium. If you really research it you'll find you'll get far more salt in your diet from the food you eat than soft water.

If your worried about it at all buy potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride aka salt. That way your adding potassium to the water instead of sodium.
 
(quoted from post at 10:49:44 08/11/14) I've been drinking softened water all my 51 years. No health issues what so ever. My water is about 15 grains per gallon hard. The sodium added to a gallon of water of that hardness is far less than the sodium in one hot dog.

I have drank soft water over in the Austin Tx area that hinted of salt. That water tested 110 grains hard. The harder the water the more added sodium. If you really research it you'll find you'll get far more salt in your diet from the food you eat than soft water.

If your worried about it at all buy potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride aka salt. That way your adding potassium to the water instead of sodium.

I know a guy that smokes three packs a day, drinks a quart or whiskey a day and messes around with wild women. He is 85yrs old , going strong And hasn't hurt him a bit.
 
I would not be without a water softener now that I owned one, and no issue with drinking water, and have been doing so for around 25 years. The salt is, as others have said, flushed out with the regeneration process. As a matter of fact, my water is nearly unusable without the softener, and I can always tell when it is time to run a cleaning solution through it. I use Ironout available at WalMart or many stores (read the instructions for cleaning the media). Put the softener in, you won't regret it, and don't worry about drinking it.
 

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