OT: Weeds growing through black crushed rock

Stan in Oly, WA

Well-known Member
I'm going to put 3/4" minus black crushed rock on a driveway. It will be a minimum of 4" deep. Do I need to worry about weeds and grasses growing up through the crushed rock from the soil underneath? I had planned to put down landscaping fabric before spreading the crushed rock, but I won't do it if there's no point. I know that some weeds can grow in the fines of the crushed rock itself, so landscape fabric would do nothing about those. The driveway is bounded by a fence on one side, and plantings on the other, and is narrow enough that a significant portion of the center will probably never be touched by vehicle tires.

Thanks, Stan
 
In my humble opinion, your idea has merit. Just remember later on that Roundup works on weeds / grass growing in the driveway!

The fabric will also help some with keeping potential potholes at bay. After spreading your aggregate and dressing it up with your blade, you'll to run over it slowly with a heavy truck to pack it down. Go back / forth and move over the width of your tires till you have it all done.
 
Weeds will grow in the dust and dirt that blow in between the rock. I think the only way to keep them out is to keep killing them as they grow.
 
Also lightly wet it down before you pack it - don't make it sopping wet, just dampen it. It makes the fines pack down tighter & helps to bind everything together.


:>)
 
I think over time it may happen, the fabric may still be worth the time you get out of it, but I would think the consideration would be sharp edges of crushed stone penetrating as wheels from vehicles press on it as well as drainage, assuming it to be porous like filter fabric. You would be surprised where things will grow, I have a chimney flue that has not been used in years, and its clay tile, and somewhere in there is a place that will grow a tree, either birch or poplar, I think it was birch, I cut it off, again, and need to kill it off, how in the heck it got started, several flue down and these are 24" x 24" flue, obviously using the fireplace should kill it, theres even a huge nest of yellow jackets in there, with nowhere to nest, its amazing how mother nature could care less what is built, things that grow and live in what we build LOL !

Weed killer , with the nearby plants, may also be a concern, somewhere in the past I have seen it called for in asphalt specifications, prior to placement. I assume there might be something you could apply, but you don't want it to migrate too far either.

Over time you may have a center aisle of grass or weeds, my driveway being gravel does it, and anywhere no traffic is present.
 
You're in western Washington, Stan- weeds will grow up through the rock, regardless whether you put down landscape fabric or not. Probably better with it than without it, though, from the standpoint of keeping the rock from just being pushed down into the dirt when its wet.

Couple of shots of Roundup in early and late spring will pretty much take care of it.
 
Hi Billy;

I have a related question that you might be the person to ask. I'm getting 11 yards delivered (about half of which has to be moved to a nearby location which is inaccessible to any vehicle). The driveway is too narrow to contain it, so I have to put up some barriers along the sides. This is not a problem as long as I know where it will be dumped. The driver is supposed to be very skilled, so it shouldn't be a problem---except that there is a utility line 17' high at the street end of the driveway. I can't talk to the driver until tomorrow at 8 am, which will give me only a few hours until the scheduled delivery.

If the raised dump bed will clear a 17' wire, then it's not an issue. If not, the worst case would be that the driver would have to back far enough into the driveway to miss the wire, and put the load against the garage door. Clearly, I'm not going to do that, but the issue of where to put my sidewall barriers is still unsettled. What can you tell me about this?

Thanks, Stan
 
Dont worry about the fabric. you will be wasting your money. Weeds will grown in it, but not from underneath it. As long as you have a nice base like clay the 3/4" down stone will give you a nice drive for a long time. you should only worry about weeds growing in the middle where tires wont drive in it. Just spray round up when you see weeds or products like Ground Clear to keep weeds off of it. I work for an excavating company in Southern MI and we install driveways with 3/4" down limestone all the time. Thats is very similar to "county mix" for the gravel roads in these parts.
 
First and foremost raised steel or metal dump bodies and power lines are an extremely dangerous combination, as is with similar equipment, a friend with a large paving company had a fatality last year with a light tower and power lines on a road job, it's a stark reminder, I'm probably not telling you anything you are not aware of given your knowledge of welding. I have driven single, tandem, tri-axle, dump trucks, and delivered how many hundreds of tons, I can't even recall. From residential deliveries to large sites.

First consideration is to avoid the wires, see what trucks are available down to a small 1 ton mason dump, the right truck here will be safe and get the material spotted where you need it and will save a lot of hand labor. Low profile single axle, short wheel base etc,. always shines for residential deliveries for the above reasons, always a better fit.

2nd, barriers will work fine, stake off some boards, plywood or what have you to retain it, I've done all kinds of odd things to suit a jobs needed, planked pavement to protect asphalt, sidewalks too, one job I bought a unit of 3/4 plywood for just such a purpose, as I had to run equipment onto it and did not want to be held liable for damages, worked very well too.

Often times you can chain off the tailgate with an opening just enough to allow the right amount of material to flow out while the body is raised, an experienced driver should know how to do it, space its opened, and speed play a role in this, small quantity here, but you DO NOT want a driver doing this with risk of any contact or unsafe proximity of the dump body to the overhead wires, in that situation, spot it as best you can and do the hand labor.
 
Stan;

As I have previously written, I have quite a bit of personal experience with this situation.

First, I have found that landscape cloth is a total waste of time & money. As others have pointed out, weeds still germinate in the material (even gravel) on top of the cloth. The roots then quickly grow down through the cloth. The problem then is pulling them out. It usually pulls the cloth up, disturbing the very surface you are trying to protect.

As to Roundup, it is a (very effective) POST-emergent. That means a weed has to germinate and show itself before Roundup is applied. NOTE: Putting Roundup on bare dirt or gravel surfaces is a total waste. It is only effective when directly applied to growing foliage.

Then depending on how soon the Roundup is applied, you wind up with some (or perhaps lots) of dead weeds showing in an area where you only want the cleared gravel surface you paid for. Weed whacking the resultant dead foliage usually results in gravel all over the place, and can spread seeds that will provide the next crop of weeds.

My local solution is to use the pre-emergent Ground Clear on places where we do not want any weed growth.

My brick patio (laid on gravel with coarse sand in the ~3/4" spaces between the bricks) that was sprayed (only in the spaces) with Ground Clear nearly 2 years ago is still totally weed free. A similar patch that was only sprayed with Roundup is really ugly: Lots of small weeds continuously germinating, and lots of dead weeds (from the Roundup applications) that are very hard to remove.

Next step here is to weed whack that area, then apply Ground Clear.

Hope this is helpful!
 
Stan,
What's wrong with weeds in drive?

Weeds, grass in drive will keep the rock in place when you push snow.

Weeds in drive will keep the rock there when someone is driving fast while turning, or trying to spin tires.

Men need to learn not to argue with a woman. Anyone who is trying to keep weeds out of a drive is arguing with a woman, MOTHER NATURE.

A concrete drive, with no cracks, is the best way I know of to keeps weeds down. I've put concrete down 20 years ago, no sealing, no weeds.

I will never spend a dime on landscaping fab. I've used it and hate it.
George
 
(quoted from post at 09:26:51 08/04/14) Hi Billy;

I have a related question that you might be the person to ask. I'm getting 11 yards delivered (about half of which has to be moved to a nearby location which is inaccessible to any vehicle). The driveway is too narrow to contain it, so I have to put up some barriers along the sides. This is not a problem as long as I know where it will be dumped. The driver is supposed to be very skilled, so it shouldn't be a problem---except that there is a utility line 17' high at the street end of the driveway. I can't talk to the driver until tomorrow at 8 am, which will give me only a few hours until the scheduled delivery.

If the raised dump bed will clear a 17' wire, then it's not an issue. If not, the worst case would be that the driver would have to back far enough into the driveway to miss the wire, and put the load against the garage door. Clearly, I'm not going to do that, but the issue of where to put my sidewall barriers is still unsettled. What can you tell me about this?

Thanks, Stan

17 yards will most likely be on a triaxle and the front of the cab protector will be way over 17 feet. I have had situations where I dump as much as I can by rolling ahead as much as I can and still be able to put the body down to get under a wire by backing a little way onto the pile. He can the dump the little remainder outside of the wire.
 
Hi showcrop,

It's 11 yards, not 17, but you gave me the information I was after. The way you described it---backing in far enough to clear the wire, then coming forward with the bed up to spread the load, and backing up onto it a little to get the bed back down---was how I imagined the driver would have to do it. I'm pretty nervous about it, though. Twice I've had drivers who have left me with up to an hour of hard work with a shovel because they didn't take the extra minute or two to line up the truck better. What I worry will happen is that when I call the driver tomorrow morning, he will listen to me describe the site and give the dimensions, and say, "No problem. I can do that." But what he means is that he's not bringing the rock back to the yard regardless of whether he can put it where I want it, or has to leave it in the street.

Stan
 
Stan, I had an old neighbor that swore by monobor chlorate. It's a soil sterilizer, and he raked it into the gravel where he parked his motorhome every spring. Didn't seem to have a weed problem. When I tried it, I didn't have nearly as good luck as him, though. Maybe he applied it heavier than I did.
 
big fred,
I'm not a tree hugger, but I don't like using chemicals. People give farmers a big rap for putting chemicals on their fields, I don't, but I still don't like putting anything on a drive way next to my well.

One time I had a water softner leak. I dipped the salt water out and like a big dummy I pitched it out the back door on top of flowers. Three years later nothing grows there.

I would just as soon put salt on things instead round up or chemicals. I could live with a little NACL in my water better.
George
 
(quoted from post at 05:44:18 08/05/14) big fred,
I'm not a tree hugger, but I don't like using chemicals. People give farmers a big rap for putting chemicals on their fields, I don't, but I still don't like putting anything on a drive way next to my well.

One time I had a water softner leak. I dipped the salt water out and like a big dummy I pitched it out the back door on top of flowers. Three years later nothing grows there.

I would just as soon put salt on things instead round up or chemicals. I could live with a little NACL in my water better.
George

George, last I knew Round-up was salt, which is why it is so widely accepted.
 
You can do that, but you need to be there or someone has to be there to help the guy with the body up and signal him, its really kind of hard to see that while in the cab of the truck, or judge distance.

The things people don't think of do happen. I was placed on some old junk excavator, an Insley 1000, years ago on a road job, stripping blacktop, under electrical wires, and the control linkage broke, jammed, the boom kept going up, I could not stop it, I jumped out and got away from it, it ended up into the wires and arc'd out, who would have thought, controls stopped working, something goes wrong and you are too close, which we were with a machine that should have been scrapped out.

On the other end, think of what its like to be a driver, I had this dozer operator who worked for a large outfit who hired our trucks, they were doing site work, we were hauling top soil to them, heavy topsoil, and he'd have me back into dangerous places with a freightliner tri-axle, with a 20' body on it. Soft, uneven, got to the point on every job, he'd keep waving me to come further back, this and that and I told him no, he got really ticked off, and we were headed to get into it, no way I was turning that truck over, drop was close enough for him, he was greedy.

If there is enough room to get behind the wires, its ok, but someone needs to guide the driver, its a dangerous combination and one slip or mistake doing this, only reason I mention it, most drivers will consider it, but it sucks to have to trust a brake, get out of the truck, with a body up and check how close it is to electrical wires, having a set of eyes on the ground is a nice gesture for the driver.
 
If you live where lots of rain and wind,
absolutely nothing will stop weeds in the stone.
Wind blows the dust in, then seeds......

A landscape rake to stir it up regularly, letting the stones themselves turn into weed choppers helps.
Dumping your old calcium out of tractor tires on it will give you a clean year.
If it's like where I live, a couple years are all you need, as after that, the stone is just....gone.
35 years here, my driveway's stone must be 20' thick under there by now. :)

I gave up years ago, I just mow the center of it......
 
Thanks, I didn't know it was a salt. Is it safe to
drink? Are there warnings not to use roundup next
to wells or ditches?

I still like an alternative way, other than using
chemicals, to get rid of weeds. Today I was given
used carpet. Put carpet down upside down, then put
my Jubilee equipment on carpet, snow blade, disk,
rock rake, cultivator, cultipacker. If weeds grown
through the carpet, I may just use salt.

I still want to know what's wrong with mother
nature planting grass in drive?

I have about a dozen gravel drives at rental
properties that I snow plow. The grass keeps the
gravel in drive when I push snow. I also have a 3
inch pipe on snow blade. It better than putting
rock in the yard. So I like grass/weeds in drive.
It prevents pot holes too, not to mention redneck
tennants spinning wheels just to throw gravel.

George
 
Hi Billy;

Thanks for all the information. I got the delivery yesterday, and it went just fine. It started off well when I called the quarry at 8 to talk to the driver as I had been advised to do on Friday. I was told that he was making a delivery and would call me when he got the chance---not helpful for my anxiety level. But he called me within five minutes, so that was reassuring. He listened to my description of the situation, and said it didn't sound like it would be a problem. I said I had been told he was very skillful, but all the skill in the world wouldn't matter if it turned out to be impossible. He told me not to worry, if he couldn't do it, he'd take the load back to the quarry.

He arrived exactly on time, and spent a few minutes talking to me to find out what I planned to do with the rock (there was clearly more than twice as much as it would take to just do the driveway) so that he could put it where it would do me the most good. When I asked what I could do to help him, he thanked me but said he thought he could handle it. When he backed the truck into my 2' high, 16' long, 9' wide braced plywood enclosure there wasn't a whole foot of clearance on either side. At one point he was a few inches closer to one side than the other and when the pile got high enough about 1/2 a cubic foot went over the plywood. He realigned the truck and didn't spill any more. He apologized for that small error.

He dealt with the utility line by positioning the truck, raising the bed about half the max height, and getting out to visually inspect it. He even walked about 40' down the line to get a more precise idea of where the line was in relation to the truck. Very careful, I'd say.

I was also impressed at what a beautiful piece of equipment the truck was, and how much respect the driver showed in how he used it and in how he talked about it. It wasn't his, either.

Stan
 

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