Home generator

I have recently acquired a small lake cabin [12'x16']which is on skids.Iam going to move it home and you it as a wood working shop.It is completly wired and comes with a 100 amp box.The power company wants $3500 to get power to it and they only have to go 150'.Instead i was wondering about a home gen.How could i power up the shop with one and how big do i need.A table saw would be the biggest draw for power
 
Table saw may be the biggest draw; but what is the total number of electrical devices that would run at the same time? Heater, AC, large air compressor; etc.
 
No they have to put a transformer in. Its on the other side of the roud from the building site.I would say it would be one tool at a time ,no AC and a wood stove heats it.So basically lights and a tool.It has recessed lights wired in.
 
If a 15 amp table is going to be your max load, what about lights, grinders, compressor?

I use a 3500 watt RV genny as my portable power source and back up for house. I only want to power up the well, ref and coffee pot.

I made an energy management device so when well kicks on, everything is turned off. The coffee pot comes back on when the well turns off. The ref is delayed for about 5 minutes before it is powered up. I added a 4th circuit using a diode in series when using my 4 hp electric chain saw. The diode is removed in one second, saw gets full power. The reason for the diode is the saw's peak amps is 70a.

You may need to use a diode for the table saw.

I would recommend a RV genny because they are very quiet and use very little fuel. Like a gallon in 3 hours at half power. I have a honda clone, champion. Liked it so much, I bought a second one with electric start for my other place.
George
 
Why not trench in a wire from your home, or wherever power is available. If you are unsure about doing the hookup you could hire an electrician to do that. It would have to be way less than $3500! You do not want to run a generator, and you do not want another meter!
 
You need to buy a name brand unit. Buy one of those cheap Chinese gensets and anything goes wrong. You will be stuck with a boat anchor. I refuse to work on them anymore. Can't afford to spend days looking for parts.There is one called Champion. They are the only one of what I call clones. That has a good support system.
 
Unless you want to keep the cabin 'portable' on the property, I would also recommend direct burial wire from the house. Probably 60 amps worth of electric would handle about anything that would be done in the cabin. Probably just tie-into the existing entrance box in the cabin with a 50 - 60 amp breaker in the house.
 
George, would you elaborate just a little about the device you made that would turn off some loads when the well kicks on?

I am really interested in a device like that.
 
Dunno about electrical, likely cheaper, but I had horizontal boring done to put a 60 foot, 12 inch culvert under a road, and it cost $1500 a couple of years ago.
 
Generators are nice and sure have their place. 100 amp at 120 VAC is a 12,000 watt generator. Have to be careful though because few generators, especially smaller ones put out a constant, smooth cycle in these days of some pretty sensitive electronics, solid states. A couple of years ago, I used a 4000 watt job with the intent of powering only a $1,500 GE brand refridgerator that was only a couple of years old, having lost power for three days. Its sensitive control unit got smoked by the spikes put out by the generator. Generators have their place, but they are dirty power. Might think about buying a quality surge supressor, like an ONEAC brand between the gen and your stuff.

You say its going to be a 150' away and is equipped with 100 amp service (ckt brkr I assume). Rental places often rent small, self propelled trenchers that can cut a 4" wide swath, 36" deep. In your existing home panel, do you have room for a 100 amp double pull double throw ckt breaker? Go to Menards, buy 170' or so 2GA buried cable, put in your own service to the shelter.

Good luck.

Mark
 
It was made out of common parts found on furnaces and air conditioner. I did order a 1 second adjustable timer for the saw circuit that used a diode to soft start chain saw. I had posted pics of it a while back, not sure if on Tool or Tractor talk.

I used a 24 vac transformer, 24v contactor, 2 24v fan relay, current sensor, diode, delay timer used on A/C. Diagram isn't easy to draw.

Actually I put out the challange and someone came up with the circuit diagram.

The pic is the second generation energy management system using spare parts off shelf. Not all the parts in pic are found on furnaces or A/c's. Both do the same job.

Like all my projects I buy very few parts.

Not sure, but I think I called it may energy management system. Pics are on old computer, no longer in use.
a164360.jpg

a164361.jpg
 
Wow, George, that is neat.

With the ever increasing popularity of the small 1,500 to 2,000 watt portable generators, there sure is a market for a device that would keep the chest freezer from starting if the refrigerator and furnace were already running.

That's what I would like, to be able to run my furnace and frige and freezer but, only run the freezer when the refrigerator had shut off.

You could set up an assembly line and sell a ton of these.
 
(quoted from post at 11:55:09 07/31/14) I have recently acquired a small lake cabin [12'x16']which is on skids.Iam going to move it home and you it as a wood working shop.It is completly wired and comes with a 100 amp box.The power company wants $3500 to get power to it and they only have to go 150'.Instead i was wondering about a home gen.How could i power up the shop with one and how big do i need.A table saw would be the biggest draw for power

Generators are for a backup power source and should not be used for your primary power source. In the long run you will need alot more in gas $$$ to keep it running than what you will need to pay to get power brought up to the house.

I have a 5500 watt back up generator. When I need to run it, it drinks up to 5 gallons of gas every 13 hrs. Whether I am drawing current or not. Under heavy loads such as when my 220volt well pump continuously kicks in, gas usage goes up.

You will need to keep a good amount of gas around unless you want to keep making trips to the gas station each day.
 
Actually my first one was put in a box about 4 times that size, much heavier. I have 2 3500w RV gennys at 2 different locations. The reason I like the RV genny is it has one 30 outlet. Most smaller gennys have 15 or 20 amp 120v outlets.
 
That can easily be done with a current relay and another relay. The outlet to the well is wired direct. When the current relay senses current to the well, another relay pulls in, by using the normally closed contacts to power the coffee pot and refrig, the power is turned off to everything else.

Bubba helped me design the energy management system, I'm sure anyone with an electrical engineering degree can make a better one.
 
I recently purchases a second 35oow RV champion with remote electric start, a digital voltmeter, hour meter and frequency meter. It seems to run on gas fumes, very easy on gas. It also is the quietest, like 67 db(I think). Haven't found any quieter.

Unlike most generators, all 3500 watt is applied to the RV out. All the 4000 w genny I've looked at are really two 2000w generators. So if you try to start motors, refrigerators or freezers, you may have issues with a genny.
 
I have customers that wire enclosures like that, makes it real hard to troubleshoot. An enclosure is like a shop, just make it twice as big as you think you will need.

On another note, I did the load shedding for a new Intel plant a few years back. They had 6 2500 kW Cats backing up a UPS. We did it with PLC's and a kW meter.
 
We turned our chicken coop which was around that size into a wood shop.(actually too small) We have it insulated well and a small electric ceramic heater keeps it above freezing.
Years ago we borrowed a 3pt. subsoiler and hook a piece of conduit to the back with a curve in it and plowed an electric line to it.
 
Russ thats what I did to my shop.I ran my wire in a 6" pvc plastic so if it ever needs replacing I won't have to dig up the yard. I ran 100 amp off of my 200amp service in house. I did all the work myself ( to code) and saved a lot money.
 
Get an inverter style generator like the Hondas. They run slow at low use and speed up with demand.

Don't know how big of one you can get though ? May make electric service look cheap by comparison.
 
The smallest Honda quiet generator that will run 220/240V starts at around $4000. It would be cheaper to run electric.

You'd want at minimum 5000 Watts IMHO. Probably 8000 Watts. Generators that size are not cheap, and you don't want a cheap generator that may or may not start when you want to work in your shop. Cheap generators are designed for people who will never use them, who only buy them for "peace of mind." Good generators in the 5000+ Watts range run upwards of $2000.
 
Solar PV panel on the roof , a couple of batteries ,12V LED lighting and a 2000W inverter.
The solar stuff is cheap now.
Lights, radio and small tools from solar. Crank the generator for large loads.
If you don"t presently own a generator , you should.
 
Glen, if I wasn't so darn old and just starting Id really be into smart technology earth sheltered housing with plenty of Solar and Wind power etc. and be pretty well off the grid. Id venture (subject to location and sun and wind and overall system efficiency) the payback numbers would pan out for a young couple just starting housekeeping.

PS can you shoot me an e mail? [email protected]

John T
 
Try talking to several local electrical contractors. One of them should be able to bury a cable or run an overhead line for less than $23/foot.

Is there more to it than just the connection, like moving or adding an electric meter, changing your transformer, or increasing your service amps & voltage?
 
Double-tap your existing meter. This is something I'd call in a licensed electrician to do, but you can save yourself some money by running the trench yourself.
 
(quoted from post at 16:58:15 07/31/14) No they have to put a transformer in. Its on the other side of the roud from the building site.I would say it would be one tool at a time ,no AC and a wood stove heats it.So basically lights and a tool.It has recessed lights wired in.

What kind of a road ?
 
WOW!, talk about highway robbery. I just recently purchased a 200 foot spool of SOOW - 4 conductor - #6 AWG - 600 Volt cable, from Home Depot and paid less than $450. for it.

:>)
 
(quoted from post at 03:13:12 08/04/14) WOW!, talk about highway robbery. I just recently purchased a 200 foot spool of SOOW - 4 conductor - #6 AWG - 600 Volt cable, from Home Depot and paid less than $450. for it.

:>)

I hope that you know that that SOOW is cord, and NOT to be used as building wire.

Dusty
 
Not about the electricity, but a 16' building is too short for woodworking. You can't rip an 8' long board unless the saw is cutting diagonal thru the room, or unless lined up with a window or door. 20' is about minimum. Just another thing to think about.
 
(quoted from post at 14:04:57 08/04/14) Not about the electricity, but a 16' building is too short for woodworking. You can't rip an 8' long board unless the saw is cutting diagonal thru the room, or unless lined up with a window or door. 20' is about minimum. Just another thing to think about.

Possibly the beer fridge and the TV will use more power than the wood working equipment?
 

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