Any Positive Wells Fargo Experience?

VaTom

Well-known Member
Money is a tool...

With the passing of our mother, my siblings and I are recipients of a TOD (transfer on death) brokerage account with Wells Fargo, broker in Bay City, Michigan. He promised me a check last February for my share of the account. Seems he had no clue as to what WF required. His assistant did and was most helpful, if annoyed to be cleaning up his mistakes.

Five months later, still no check and no closer to distribution from the account. The (once) helpful assistant now clearly has no intention of speaking with any of us. Thursday I called her direct number. Someone picked up the phone and immediately put it back on the cradle. Then did not return my voicemail. My siblings have had the same experience.

On Saturday I learned that she sent me an overnight FedEx to Mom's unoccupied house. Which she knew from 3 months ago was not near where I live, when she mistakenly sent a mailed package of forms to me there. I had a 5 hr drive to retrieve the FedEx legal papers, after I got a neighbor to look for them.

The broker who wasn't very competent is no longer with Wells Fargo, retired before he wanted to, whatever that means. The broker who supposedly replaced him does not return voicemail and apparently does not accept calls, at least from our three phone numbers. I can call the Bay City office number, get an answer, but am unable to actually talk to anyone who might know something.

I tried to get help here in Virginia from the sole broker serving our cluster of small cities. He wasn't interested, and also gave me wrong information last February about the check I'm still awaiting. Today I was promised the branch manager of one office near me would call. Apparently he's real busy this morning.

Wells Fargo is split into "bankers" and "brokers" with very little overlap.

My Phoenix sibling went to a Wells Fargo office there and was told she needed a WF checking account for distribution. They didn't read the paperwork, we all apparently need a brokerage account because WF refuses to liquidate the brokerage account, even though we all three authorized them to do that, with their required signed and notarized paperwork, several weeks ago.

Does anyone have experience with a competent Wells Fargo broker, or preferably a broker supervisor, that they can share? Today I asked the person answering in the local branch how far I needed to drive to find a competent WF broker. She didn't know, was surprised that the local broker was unhelpful.

There's a substantial amount of money that Wells Fargo seems intent on not releasing. Any ideas on how to start a small fire under them?
 
Contact a competent well recommended lawyer in your area that handles estate cases. He will know what to do to get them to pay attention. It will be money well spent.
 
Anytime you are dealing with a commission paid broker, they really don't want to do anything that doesn't get them paid. And if your account is closed out, they will have to answer for that also. They want to keep as much of your money as possible, for as long as possible. Get a lawyer. It's a pia, but it is the quickest way to get them to do what they are legally required to do. Any commission sales rep is NOT your friend. They are legal parasites.
 
You don't need to pay for a lawyer to handle this. Just file a complaint for free with the state securites regulator for that state. That will get their attention and they will respond.
 

Tell the broker that appears to be responsible that you need a new broker to handle your current retirement account, and would he/she be interested. Puts an entirely different light on the subject.
 
If the state securities thing doesn't work, you might try the state Attourny Generals office. If you do end up hiring an attourny, make sure you hire one who specilizes in estates. Just be prepared to pay a sizable chunk of the estate to the lawyer. Been there done that.
 
I haven't dealt with any brokers, but my wife wound up working for them on the banking side of things when our illustrious government decided to make Wachovia sell out to them. That said, other than keeping an account with them so her check can be direct deposited, and she has immediate access to her money, she wouldn't deal with them if you paid her to.

Basically it's a HUGE company, and their only goal is to make money off the backs of their employees and clients, regardless of who gets hurt in the process, or anything else for that matter.

Beyond that, I think most of the other replies have given you some good advice. That said maybe you just need to threaten with a lawyer, or simply pay one a little bit to make a few calls on your behalf, and maybe that will get them into gear -vs- having to pay one to handle the whole matter. Good luck.
 
"Contact a competent well recommended lawyer in your area that handles estate cases."

That's funny.

My first problem was with my siblings, who got 102 year old Mom to sign over the large majority of her estate last fall, superseding the will.

I called attorneys specializing in estates then (February). Not one of them would work for a non-executor. This is an area with a good law school, and too many attorneys for the amount of work available.

Eventually I found a competent guy in the area where one sister lives, who would/could deal with the attorney she hired to run over me.

He was unsuccessful, but his bluster made it impossible for me to make any headway. The attorney I hired ended up doing both attorneys' work, at my expense obviously.

Now that we have an agreement, we've got a Michigan brokerage office with the original broker discharged, a new one who won't return calls, and the experienced assistant who refuses to have anything to do with any of us.

Supervisor? How do I locate her/him when nobody will talk to me? I asked this morning how to go higher in the Wells Fargo bureaucracy. That office manager still has not returned my call.

I figured it wouldn't be any problem to go through Wells Fargo elsewhere, but that's been a total failure. Unbelievable company, how the hell did they get so large?

I know nothing about Michigan regulation. Maybe time to learn a whole lot more than I ever wanted to know.

Thanks for the suggestions everybody.
 
Thanks Wayne.

I was typing my response below. Trying to keep this sorry mess as concise as I could.

Entirely possible we 3 heirs will agree on an attorney, but the only competent one was the guy I hired and I doubt my sisters will agree on him.

I can do it alone, but I'm not going to give them that gift yet. My guy said it was normal for huge firms to be reluctant to relinquish funds. Did not suggest he had a silver bullet.

Truly amazing that I cannot find anyone in Wells Fargo able and willing to explain how to go about simply liquidating the TOD account and send out 3 checks. We were promised that a few weeks ago, submitted all the paperwork, they reneged.
 
Look at this website. File a complaint for free. Its all you have to do.

https://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-35299_61343_35395_35396---,00.html
 
Freind of mine had Wells Fargo lose 2500.00 out of his account. That was three years ago. Last I heard he was still fighting them over it.Nothing but one excuse after another.
 
Oops, unfortunately:

"We cannot take action in matters involving the internal affairs of a business entity. We only have jurisdiction over the offer, sale or purchase of securities, not over the way business is being conducted except in the case of securities industry professionals (broker-dealers, securities agents, investment advisers, and investment adviser representatives)."
 
OK. In that case you get the general phone number for that branch of Wells from information. Call it and ask to speak to the branch manager. Insist on holding until you do or keep calling back. Become a pain so that they will deal with you to get it over with.

Talk to him and threaten a lawyer if they don't start responding. They will.
 
Filing a complaint is the first thing you do.
Then hire an attorney to get it done.

I hired an attorney last fall for $500 to handle a neighbor that is a pile of schitt. It worked very well, was well worth the $500 to get it done.
 
Immediately advise (by calling) the State's Attorney in the state that you are working in(or where your Mother died), and give them all the pertintent info that you have. If you call make sure that you have all paper work and dates right at hand.
 
I've got the branch number, always answered. Unfortunately, when you ask for anyone, all you get is their voicemail. Never a returned call.

You may be right about enough calls. I'll try that but one sister got nothing after 6 attempts.

Even the branch manager that I left a message for locally here seems disinclined to return my call. All I wanted from him was direction where else to go in the company.

Wells Fargo is a truly unbelievable company. Do they train employees to act like this? How could anyone stand working there? One experience and anybody with any sense would run the other direction.
 
Nothing lost here, that I know of. In January $20k was withdrawn for a checking account elsewhere. No difficulty at all. Unfortunately, one of my sisters ended up with that account (right of survivor).

WF says how much money the brokerage account is worth, distribution is an entirely different matter. I can't find anyone who will even offer an excuse.
 
All these companies are like this. I've never dealt with Wells, but I have with 3 other brokerage firms, 2 of them in similar issues as yours, and a attorney was necessary each time. I don't really care for lawyers, but you don't have a choice sometimes. These companies will stall as long as possible. It may be your money, but they like to keep it, and will beat up a sales guy that loses a account. They really want that thing rolled over, so they make more money...
 
I tried that carrot with the sole local Wells Fargo broker. Told him I would be investing, obviously not the entire account, only my third. Still enough to get his attention, briefly.

When I asked questions about how to actually get a distribution, he lost all interest. Referred that entirely to the Michigan broker.

Pretty sure he didn't think I was planning to buy a new Lamborghini.
 
What happens when you dial "0" after the automated system answers? that might get you to reception.

Otherwise you could just go down there in person and camp out in their outer area until they speak with you. They WILL.

However, at that point it might me more cost effective to just get the lawyer.

Not mnuch else you can do. Until the stuff is retitled in your name you can't transfer it out of there.
 
I have all my business accounts with Wells Fargo, including insurance and investments. They broker third parties, so sometimes you get a good one, and sometimes not.

I would go talk to the bank manager that the policy was bought through and find out how to file a complaint.
 
Not an automated system. A person in Bay City answers the phone. Appears to be the sole person there who will talk to me. The only one there? Otherwise, "busy but here's the voicemail..."

Bay City (near Saginaw) is an 11 hr drive from here. I like my Audi TT, but it only holds 6 CDs. I know, stop for lunch...

A possibility for me in town here, but I apparently need to pick a different office from the one that doesn't want to talk to me. All I want is a referral.

The account is in our names now, that's what TOD accomplishes. No probate court, automatic ownership after you send in the Death Certificate.

If there was only 1 owner, simple. You might think having 3 owners with specific percentage ownerships would make it simple, not with Wells Fargo.
 
Afraid you lost me. This is a brokerage account, formerly was part of Merrill Lynch, then the group migrated to Wells Fargo several years ago.

No policy bought, no bank involved as I understand it. All the people I've dealt with are Wells Fargo employees, far as I know. That's what their cards say.

Last letter I received, under the name says "Registered Client Associate, Wells Fargo Advisors". Brokers cards read similar.

What I've been trying to learn is precisely what department within Wells Fargo to approach. Surely somebody's in charge? The local Bay City people are apparently not, why they don't want to talk to me. Same for my local (primarily) banking branches.

You're a regular client, is this something you can determine? Any help most welcome.
 
Maybe you should start telling them they owe you intrest on money they are oweing and that your going to lawyer up to get it. and sorry to hear about the loss of your mother
 
I've never dealt with Wells Fargo personally, but I've heard plenty of horror stories. You are somewhat fortunate in that you are dealing with a single branch and you have phone numbers of real people to talk to. My niece suffered an identity theft and spent years trying to get things straight with WF. Every phone call would get her to a different person.

Were you listed as a beneficiary for the account? If so, it should be a simple matter of supplying a death certificate and collecting a check. My guess is you are not a direct beneficiary, and the account must first pass through an estate or trust. Good luck getting that straightened out, particularly if you're not the executor or trustee.

You say there's a lot of money coming your way. Have you considered opening an account with a different brokerage and enlisting their help in getting the money transferred? If you're talking about a few hundred thousand, you'll find brokers to be very helpful. Two investment firms I can recommend are T. Rowe Price and Vanguard.
 
That stinks. For what it's worth, my mother set up a similar account with TD Ameritrade. When she died we called the 800 number, they explained what was needed; we sent the forms in and got the distribution right away - with one very minor catch. They had us all set up accounts with them (I already had one anyway) and the money was transferred into those accounts.

You and your siblings might try setting up your own Wells Fargo accounts and asking for a transfer into them.
 
Mark, this was set up correctly to have ownership directly transfer to the 3 heirs. That's what TOD (transfer on death) does. No beneficiary like a life insurance policy, this is akin to right of survivor in real estate or vehicle ownership. The 3 of us now own the account, no question about that. I submitted the death certificate last winter.

Long story about the will, but it will not be filed. There is no need as everything was with right of survivor. For instance I now own her Virginia house, a sister now owns her Michigan house (near West Branch). No probate court needed.

Transferring to another brokerage (I use Schwab) is simple, AFTER someone at Wells Fargo agrees to distribute the account according to the percentages owned, but it currently is mostly not cash, 23 different securities. That's the rub, who owns what? We asked Wells Fargo to liquidate, they agreed, now they're reneging. Makes the distribution difficult, which I presume is their intent.

I'd be happy to use either of your recommendations, hadn't considered asking another brokerage for help. It is a few hundred thousand dollars. Mom was worth a lot more than I had any idea.

But brokers helpful? Definitely not the ones at Wells Fargo. Including the one I enlisted to help, with the plan that I could leave my money with him. He would gladly take my money, so long as he didn't have to do a thing to help me get it there.

Unbelievable.
 
Good afternoon. I have gone through what you are going through. It is a royal mess First thing to understand is that Wells Fargo has nothing to do with the issue. Your brokerage is with Wells Fargo Advisors, who actually are under a company not Wells Fargo.

Go to any wells Fargo Advisors Office and tell them you want the account transfered to them. You will have to have the death certificate and likely written concurrance of your siblings. If at that point you want to cash it out it is going to cost you. If you can determine if the deceased was on an email or call in service to wells fargo advisors with a set number of free trades per year you can save some money. Any wells fargo advisors office should be able to tell you how to get in touch with the call in or email office. Stock Brokerages will have a fund for cashed out stocks. Once you sell the stocks the brokerage can be asked for the funds or you can go to your local bank and have the funds transferred.
HTH
 
Hmm. The fact that the account holds securities rather than cash shouldn't be a problem. Unless of course they want to make it one.

I assume the paperwork you submitted to WF instructed them how you wanted to disburse the account. Short of hiring a lawyer, all I can suggest is to draft a letter with explicit instructions as to what you want done with the account: When it is to be liquidated and where the proceeds are to go. (That is, do you want a check or wire transfer, and where to mail the check or the wire transfer account info.) Include instructions for all three account holders and have it signed and notarized by all three. State that it supersedes any previous instructions. I'd set a date no more than two weeks after the last signature for the liquidation to occur. Send it to the bank via traceable means (priority mail will do). At that point, there is no longer any question as to your instructions. If Well Fargo does not comply, it becomes a matter for the Michigan Attorney General.
 
Some minor hassles over the years- one drill that has worked for me is going to the states attorney fraud office and making the call from there- tell the person who aqnswers the phone you are calling from that states attorneys office and have a recorder going- tell them it is being recorded, they can call back the fraud office if they want- but they had better do it in a hour and have their legal service lawyer do it with them- then tell them what you want to get the problem resolved. Usually the person answering will quickly get the supervisor on line and the minor dodges get a quick- you want the grand jury appearance, what is your legal service address. Usually the states attorney staff is chuckling by this time and will get on the extension and will note the complaint alledges a felony good for 5 years- normal sentence is 18 months with 5 years probation, and obstruction alone is a 2 year felony- so please respond before we get the warrant word processor to the template and it to you. AT&T, Verizon and a Arizona Finance outfit got the treatment, the States attorneys office and the consumer protection new hires get some training. Obnoxious comments and delays for a call from the fraud office one a long running complaint gets the company in real trouble with the fraud office people- they figure a obstruction charge or false statement is good enough for government work- remember Martha Stewart got cell time for false statements, etc on the possible insider trade incident.
 
Wow, Bob, thank you, I think. The former broker in Michigan was a sleazeball, I dropped him 25 years ago after he didn't do what I directed, cost me more than a little money. My mother believed he walked on water. He was Merrill Lynch at the time, who invited me to go after him. Out of courtesy for Mom, I did not.

I've forwarded your post to my Phoenix BIL, more or less a neighbor of yours apparently. There is no WF Advisors office with a different broker near me. The one I tried to deal with last winter was a hopeless incompetent, no better than the sleazeball in Michigan.

He did assure me that most of the bonds could be cashed out without fee, the remainder with "small" fees.

Is this crap typical of Wells Fargo Advisors?

I'm favoring the advice to ask for help from another brokerage. Getting agreement from my siblings is problematic.
 
My wife owned a small percentage of a family trust which was administered by Wells Fargo. A couple of years ago the trust was liquidated or dissolved, or whatever it's called when a trust is closed. WF couldn't get the per stirpes distribution percentages right for love or money. Mainly it seemed to be a combination of incompetence and indifference. My wife finally got it straightened out by doing most of their work for them.

As for the idea of opening a different brokerage account and getting them to pressure WF to transfer the money---good luck with that. I tried to do that with our eTrade account last year by opening a brokerage account with TIAA-CREF, and going through all the correct procedures for the funds transfer. eTrade held on to our money as long as they could (and eventually kept a little of it), and all the TIAA-CREF account managers could do was offer me condolences and advice that wasn't as good as you're getting here.

In my opinion, you're wasting your time trying to find the right person at WF. There is no right person. Their policy is to hold on to your money as long as they possibly can. Sometimes you can cut to the chase by calling/writing/emailing directly to the president of the company, or another executive far above the local level, but I suspect that there's too much money involved for them to want to interfere. Financial institutions seem pretty much indifferent to bad publicity since the way most people feel about them already couldn't be worse. I think that beginning a lawsuit or initiating governmental regulatory action is what it's gong to take.

Don't let this drive you crazy. It would be nice to have the money, but I'm pretty sure you don't actually need it. Eventually, you'll get it.

Good luck,

Stan
 
Tom---a simple brokerage account with T.O.D. that has mutual funds, stocks,C.D's., bonds should have been completed in a matter of weeks.....if all the correct docs were filed in good order.

Most brokers have a special department that is notified when an owner of an account dies.
That department puts together a claims kit with all required docs needed to pay the T.O.D. beneficiaries. Simple.

There are some securities that have "death put options" that will pay the bene the full value of the bond, even if the market value is less....if that bond paid interest every 6 months, you may have to wait for your money from that bond until the "interest pay date". If your Mother owned some of these securities, shame on the broker for not explaining this to you, and that it would take additional time.

There is something else going on here....if the broker that initially began the distribution process left the company....that account could have been just sitting in limbo somewhere....if you really talked to a registered assistant, they can complete this for you as easily as any broker can......they get paid by the hour, brokers don't.

I don't really think they are trying to keep your money....if you think so, call these folks, not an attorney....they get paid by the hour, too. Good luck.

http://www.finra.org/Investors/ProtectYourself/p118628
 
I once made a call to the fraud department of the company that holds my 401. The number and e-mail address were on the home page of their website. Got their attention real fast. had a response within an hour. HTH
 
I don't have ANY good stories regarding Wells Fargo.

I keep threatening to have a few hundred tee shirts made up that simply say...

"I got F#@ked by Wells Fargo"

I think they'd sell like hotcakes...

Ben
 
Tom, it took me several months to find the brokerage house. Wells Fargo, per se, was no help at all. There is a Wells Fargo Advisors office in the vicinity of North El Mirage Road and West Bell Road in the west valley area of the greater Phoenix area. I did some business with them but found their commissions too high for my taste. But, they were competent.
I'm opening my email should you have questions that you prefer to pose offline.

Bob
 
I'm dealing with this issue now due to the passing of my Dad in May. Had two Revocable Trust with WF, Mother's and Dad's. When they were living, all income from the Trust was listed and filed under their SSNs. When they passed the Trust became Irrevocable Trust. Had to file with the IRS for EINs since the SSNs were no longer valid. The WF Advisors broker handling the Trust has been most helpful in getting everything straightened out to make up happy. His assistant is doing most of the work, but he is the one steering the boat. It helps that we have brokerage accounts with WF to disburse monies from the Trusts to, although they have no problem issuing checks at out request. Our lawyer, CPA and broker all talk to each other which helps too.

Noah W
 
Noah---you wrote---

"Our lawyer, CPA and broker all talk to each other which helps too."

BRAVO for the advisor that set that arrangement up for you.....working with each other allows all of them to get educated on what the rest of them are doing....they can all co-ordinate what they do best to help you achieve your goals....
 
Everyone, thank you for your input. Apologies if I did not respond directly.

I love this forum. It brought me into contact with someone high enough in Wells Fargo to get the attention of Wells Fargo Advisors. Someone there with enough clout to get action from the clowns in Bay City, Michigan.

The manager in Bay City yesterday neither accepted my call nor returned it, but late today I received a very polite call from the assistant who would not take my call or return it last Thursday. That caused me to make a 5 hour drive to retrieve papers sent incorrectly, as she previously knew, to my mother's unoccupied house.

Turns out FedEx has no way to track deliveries without a tracking number. When no one at Bay City Wells Fargo Advisors would talk to me, I couldn't get a tracking number. Nor was there much chance of getting a replacement packet sent here, if no one in Bay City would talk to me. I made the 5 hour drive, after requesting a neighbor check to see if the delivery was made there.

I understand that WF Advisors are not all incompetent. Bay City, Michigan is best avoided. I did no better with the local Charlottesville, Virgina WF Advisors people.

Immense thanks to the YTer who started this ball rolling. While not yet successful, it appears promising.
 

I don't want to steel your thread, but we had a some what the same but different experience with Bank of America, with a home equity loan account.

Dusty
 
Dusty, thread's pretty much finished anyway. The help from higher up in Wells Fargo wrote to say I should contact him if further problems arise. Extremely nice, and effective, guy. Unlikely I could ever do anything for him, but I told him to not hesitate to ask.

Bank of America...My invoices state that I will not accept checks drawn on Bank of America. Too many unpleasant experiences there. Life is too short to put up with obnoxious people or companies. My customers took notice.

We're hooked up with the local university credit union, very happy.
 

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