Advice on filling stock tank

ssuesens

New User
Please help me determine if this is possible...
I"d like to rent a 1000 GPM trash pump, hard line, and soft line to pump water from a deep, fast moving creek to a stock tank. The challenge is that the creek is 600 feet away from the tank and about 15 FT lower in elevation. The pump I would rent is a Multiquip MQ62TDD 1083 GPM. I"ve calculated the volume of water needed to fill the tank to be 180,000 gallons. My concern is the distance of 600 feet from creek to tank. Would the distance and friction be greater than the pumps ability? Does anyone know of a good internet resource to calculate efficiency of pumps with distance and lift?
 
What is the "head" on your pump? For what you are useing it for,you can rent a better pump unless the stream has so much trash in it a screen would clog.
 
Here are the general specs I found on-line


Model: MQ62TDD

Suction x Discharge (inches): 6 x 6

Max Capacity: 1083 gpm

Max Lift: 25 ft

Max Head : 100 ft

Max Pressure: 43.3 psi

Max Solids: 2 inch diameter

Engine: Deutz F2L2011, 29 hp
 
that pump has a max head of 115 ft, 1000 gpm through 6 discharge pipe has a friction loss of 6.0 ft per hundred feet. so you will loose approx 36 feet of head from just friction loss. I would not use anything less than 6 inch for discharge. the above figures are based on sched 40 pvc
 
Go to the pump manufacturer's website, or your pump supplier. They should have a graph or a table listing flow rate vrs head pressure. If there isn't any ask in the support or help section of the website.

As others have said include head for both the elevation change and for friction losses in the pipe. Note: fittings, sharp bends and elbows all add friction.
 
Sounds like a good application for a hydraulic ram water pump, Google it! Runs quiet, no gas to buy, and the tank would be overflowing a lot of the time.
 
(quoted from post at 12:32:14 06/27/14) Please help me determine if this is possible...

........"My concern is the distance of 600 feet from creek to tank. Would the distance and friction be greater than the pumps ability?...." [color=blue:43a9817ad3]No, the pump is rated at a max head of 100 ft and the total discharge head is 51 ft.[/color:43a9817ad3]

........"Does anyone know of a good internet resource to calculate efficiency of pumps with distance and lift....." [color=blue:43a9817ad3]You will need the performance curve for the pump from the manufacturer data.[/color:43a9817ad3]

As previous posted for a 6" ID line at 1000 GPM the head loss is approximately 6 ft/100 ft. Therefore, you have 6 x 6 = 36 ft head loss in the 600 ft of discharge pipe. Add the elevation change of 15 ft and you have a total discharge head of 51 ft.

Now this is all fine however, we determined the head loss for the 600 ft of pipe based on a flow rate of 1000 GPM. Although per the specs this pump has a max head of 100 ft, typically the flow is zero or near zero at max head. To determine the actual flow rate of the pump through 600 ft of 6" pipe we need what is called the performance curve for the pump. The flow rate will be less than 1000 GPM which means the head loss in the pipe will be less than 51 ft however, only the performance curve for the pump will allow one to determine the operating point, i.e. actual flow rate.

I could not find any reference to a performance curve in any of the manufacturer data. Without that, I can only say the pump will not pump 1000 GPM at the discharge conditions you discribe.

Note: the 15 ft elevation change also needs to include the height (or water level) of the tank you are pumping into.
 
Ken
here is the data you were looking for.
a161543.jpg

a161544.jpg
 
The tank is 75 Ft in diameter and I need to raise the surface level about 5 - 6 feet. I used a couple different online volume calculators.
 
Buddy of mine let a 5000 Ford run for better than a month. PTO powered pump with 2" discharge flex line run 500' and it must have been at least 30' in elevation. He had a guy checking oil and adding diesel 2x's per day.

I don't know the exact dimensions of the tank but it was big.

Money was not a concern he wanted the tank filled and not have to wait for mother nature to do it.
 

Wow, a pump curve, thanks John:

Finding the pump operating point is an iterative solution using the pump performance curve and a water data table for the friction loss in the 6" by 600' long discharge pipe. My water data reference is; Cameron Hydraulic Data, Ingersoll Rand Company, 1970.

1) We know the pump will not do 1000 GPM since that flow rate results in too a high discharge head. To keep this post short I will guess (an iterative solution) at a flow rate of 750 GPM.

2) From the pump curve we see that the pump is capable of 750 GPM with a total discharge head of approximately 48 ft. Note, I am using the orange curve, 16.7 ft. This is not labeled however I believe the different curves are for different suction heads. The orange curve is in the center so we will use it.

3) From my water tables a 6" (6.125" ID) smooth pipe at 750 GPM will result in a friction loss of 3.91 ft/100 ft. Therefore we have 6 x 3.91 ft = 23.5 ft total friction loss. Adding the 15 ft elevation change and the 6 ft water level (per Ssuesens, 6/28 post) we have a total discharge head of 44.5 ft.

4) Since our total discharge head (44.5 ft) is slightly less than the pump capability (48 ft) we conclude the pump will deliver approximately 750 GPM (pump operating point) for this application.

5) To check our work we check the total discharge head for 800 GPM and find it is 47.4 ft. Since this exceeds the pump capability, 750 GPM is the solution.

BTW - at 750 GPM the water velocity in the pipe will be 8.15 ft/sec. Therefore, it will take approximately 74 sec for the water to arrive at the end of the discharge pipe, after the pump has primed.....that will seem like a long time.

Hope this helps.
 
Could you use the existing pump to pump the water into a smaller tank, elevated 30 ft high, and then gravity drain into the larger tank?
 

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