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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Water well not producing volume LONG!

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Guido

05-27-2014 13:35:18




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Hello, The well is about 10years old. It is a submerged pump on a pit less adapter. This morning I added 10 lbs. of pressure to the bladder. It had 28# so I got it up to 38#. Could not keep the pressure up with sprinklers on. Went down below 40# It took a couple of minute to hit full pressure. But one flush and on again it went. I'm looking for something that I can do to get the volume up.
I'm thinking may be time to flush it. There are very fine grains of sand in one of the toilets. Smallest grain of sand I have ever seen, almost powder like. Any help would be appreciated,

Guido.

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charlesCpretzer

05-29-2014 18:24:06




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
My well had the same problem. The well casing plugged up with sand. I tried back flushing with a 1,000 gallons of water. That helped for maybe a week. i've heard of old timers dropping a partial stick of dynimite down the well & blowing the sand out of the casing slots.Make sure you have steel casing. i didn't try that. i ended up drilling another well. Your options are limited.



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buickanddeere

05-29-2014 11:50:45




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
What make and model of pump? Specs ?

What is the free flow rate per minute with minimal from the largest/closest tap to the pump?
How deep is the well and how far down is the pump. Some municipities have the county well info online .
There are pumps made with metal impellers to last a bit longer with abrasive water.



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GUIDO

05-29-2014 17:10:25




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to buickanddeere, 05-29-2014 11:50:45  
Hello buickanddeere,

I am in the discovery process. I will check next week. It is a 1H.P motor, but have not looked at the rest of the specs. It is not my house pump, just trying to help the fellow,

Guido.



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guidoYour Handle

05-29-2014 17:09:53




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to buickanddeere, 05-29-2014 11:50:45  
Hello buickanddeere,

I am in the discovery process. I will check next week. It is a 1H.P motor, but have not looked at the rest of the specs. It is not my house pump, just trying to help the fellow,

Guido.



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D beatty

05-29-2014 06:34:15




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
If you are pulling sand you need a well man. Sounds like screen is bad ( plugged).



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Guido

05-29-2014 17:11:54




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to D beatty, 05-29-2014 06:34:15  
Hello beatty,

That is my hope as well, cheaper then the pump,

Guido.



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big fred

05-28-2014 09:38:09




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
Our well showed a decrease in volume followed the 2001 Nisqually earthquake. Took about a year before the effects showed up. Had to drill another well a couple hundred yards away.



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Guido

05-28-2014 06:11:29




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
Hello,

The pump was short cycling the last time the sprinkler was on last year. This year won't even pick two heads up. They heads should pop at 25#. So if I got pressure volume most be the problem?. I did not check it for proper cycling, I added air because of that. I know that more air does not produce more volume, and it had only 28# in the bladder. Pressure setting is on @ 40# off at 60#. What I am going to do first, is blow the well out and hope to clear it that way. Second I will pick the pump off the bottom by 5 feet. Then if all this has failed to give me the volume I need.......NEW PUMP! OR new well?

Guido.

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rusted nuts

05-28-2014 07:26:22




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-28-2014 06:11:29  

I don"t know where you live at But here in Mercer county Pa. If you have that trouble with Low water flow and small sand You better be calling the driller that drilled it. Do you know how much water the well will make without over pumping it? Do you know the recovery rate? Is it a rock well or gravel well? Is there a flow reducer on the well? These are some of the things you need to know before you "Blow the well out" Or you could very well Blow the well out at least the bottom of it. We have wells here that are finish in sand and gravel That We stomp Stones and rock down on the bottom to keep them from "Blowing out" Pushing sand 20 or30 feet right up the hole and shutting off the water. Good luck.

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Guido

05-29-2014 06:20:49




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to rusted nuts, 05-28-2014 07:26:22  
Hello rusted nuts,

Thanks for the info. I need to check all of the well properties. It may be gravel well. My blowing will be done with a small volume as a quick test. Most people around the place have the same sand problem. Calling the installer will may be the way to go. Guido.



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showcrop

05-28-2014 05:14:49




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
Sounds like you have narrow range on your control. It should be a minimum of twenty pounds between cut-in and cut-out. increasing cut out five pounds won't hurt. Mark is right on with his explanation. You could also have a partially plugged screen at the pump. Minerals can build up on the screen and also trap grains of sand.



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guido

05-29-2014 17:14:30




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to showcrop, 05-28-2014 05:14:49  
Hello showcrop,

I'm hoping the screen is clogged as well. Pump is set at40# ON 60# Off,

Guido.



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MarkB_MI

05-27-2014 21:31:00




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
It seems to me you're trying to fix one problem by creating another. If the well isn't putting out sufficient volume, adding precharge pressure to the tank won't help; it may even make matters worse.

First, back up and make sure the tank precharge is correct. Determine what pressure the pump cuts on at. Then completely drain the tank and check the precharge pressure. The precharge should be 2 psi LESS than the cut-on pressure. If the precharge is higher, then the tank will run dry before the pump cuts on, with resultant loss of water pressure for an instant. Of course, you can't really trust your pressure gages; since you're probably using different gages to check water pressure and precharge it's possible for them to be off from each other by 2 psi. If in doubt, less precharge is better than more. You can have zero precharge and the system will work, but if your precharge is greater than the cut-on pressure it will drive you nuts.

Once you've got the precharge back where it should be you can investigate your original problem. As I understand it, it's taking too long for the pump to build up enough pressure to cut off. Assuming the cut-on and cut-off pressures are set to reasonable levels (say 40/60), if your pump takes two minutes to cycle I'd say you need a visit by a well driller; you're not going to be able to fix the problem yourself.

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Guido

05-29-2014 17:31:40




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to MarkB_MI, 05-27-2014 21:31:00  
Hello MarkB_MI,

No I am not. I added 10# to the bladder, it had28#
Last year was cycling every 10 seconds with the sprinkler on. I thought was acting the same way. silly me. I just added air to the bladder.
Since last year it now runs and does not catch up. Pump cut in pressure is 40# and shuts of at 60# I brought the air in the bladder to 28#, it goes to 60# and shuts off. With one zone of sprinklers on it will go below 40# while running, and none of the heads pup up. I may have a issue with them as well. But one flush makes the pump come on. I have had well water since the sixties.
Old house on a jet pump. Pulled that 144 feet of hoses,1" and 1 1/4, a few times patching leaks. Finally made a cinder block pit, easy access then. Pit less adapter is a piece of cake!

Guido.

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David G

05-27-2014 19:17:30




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
You need to change the pressure setpoints on the pump if you change pressure in the tank. Like others have said, tank pressure should be 2 PSI lower than cutin pressure, so that should now be set to 40 PSI.



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Guido

05-29-2014 17:35:40




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to David G, 05-27-2014 19:17:30  
Hello David G,

Pump is not producing volume. Bladder was at 28#. It supposed to have38# I got the pressure to 36#
That is not the problem. By the way, the cut in pressure is set at40# off at 60.

Guido.



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Owen Aaland

05-27-2014 17:35:05




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
Adding air will decrease the water volume in the tank when the pump switches off.



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Guido

05-29-2014 17:38:38




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Owen Aaland, 05-27-2014 17:35:05  
Hello Owen Aaland,

Yep! I know that. but it supposed to have 38#,
and is had 28? Then as you say must be a volume problem?

Guido.



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guidoYour Handle

05-29-2014 17:38:21




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Owen Aaland, 05-27-2014 17:35:05  
Hello Owen Aaland,

Yep! I know that. but it supposed to have 38#,
and is had 28? Then as you say must be a volume problem?

Guido.



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jdemaris

05-27-2014 16:06:37




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
Sand in the water is often a sign that the pump is set too close to the bottom of the well. That and/or is been running near empty.

Changing the bladder pressure has no effect on the pressure or flow rate. It only effects pump cycling.



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Guido

05-29-2014 17:50:51




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to jdemaris, 05-27-2014 16:06:37  
Hello jdemaris,

You are right! The bladder pressure was at 28#, though, and as you know, it supposed to have 38#. Because it was short cycling last year, silly me I just added proper air to the bladder. Things a different this year. I'm thinking that it is just sand. Will know next week, when I'll get some grunt help to get it up. I don't know how deep it is yet. It should not be more then 100 feet. Pulled the jet pump at the other house. 144 feet 1 1/4 and 1" hoses. I was much younger then!

Guido.

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leroy in ne

05-27-2014 15:57:22




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
pressure in bladder tank should be 2 psi less than cut in pressure of switch with pump off and tank drained by opening faucet . this is so there will be water left in tank when pump starts. changing this may cause bladder to rupture or water to stop flowing before pump starts. it will have no effect on the pumping rate. decreased pumping rate may be caused by worn pump a hole in the drop pipe, well pumping dry ect.

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Guido

05-29-2014 17:55:17




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to leroy in ne, 05-27-2014 15:57:22  
Hello Leroy,

Read my post again! Bladder pressure WAS 28# a added pressure to bring it to 38#. Pump settings are 40# on 60# off.
I need to get the pump out and see what the bottom looks like. Next week hope to do just that,

Guido.



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T in NE

06-01-2014 06:54:40




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-29-2014 17:55:17  
Did you shut off the pump and let the water depressurize before you checked the bladder, like they are trying to ask if you did?



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Guido

06-01-2014 12:16:59




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to T in NE, 06-01-2014 06:54:40  
Hello T in TN, I pulled the disconnect, drain all the water out, checked the air pressure added 10 lb.
It did run for a couple of minutes, but with one flush it came on again with newer type toilet. Not much water don't you think?

Guido.



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showcrop

06-01-2014 13:18:16




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 06-01-2014 12:16:59  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Yes I agree. How big is that tank? and are you sure that it is not partially waterlogged?



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Guido

06-01-2014 15:16:52




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to showcrop, 06-01-2014 13:18:16  
Hello showcrop,

I don't know the size, but it is the smallest thing you can by. Next size was $75. That is how much the builder saved on that system times 30 houses!. It has been short cycling with the sprinkler on. I'm going to check the anti blow back valve. If it was leaking, it could be one of the problems.
I'm still thinking the well is not producing the proper volume. This coming week we will know,

Guido.

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showcrop

06-01-2014 18:03:55




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 06-01-2014 15:16:52  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Well, that is it! Get a tank with some capacity and it will be able to flush the toilet many times. You can't expect a tank that will push one gallon to flush your tank more than once. I don't know the volumes but you should have one about four feet high.



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Guido

06-02-2014 05:12:36




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to showcrop, 06-01-2014 18:03:55  
Hello,

The pump runs too long now, just to fill the little tank. Bigger tank would take longer to fill at this rate. It is a small tank, just another part of the poorly designed system,

Guido.



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rusted nuts

05-27-2014 14:57:37




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
If your getting fine sand FROM the well the LAST thing you want is to increase the flow! Should cut well back to at least 5 gpm. If it still pumps fine sand then you have BIG trouble with the well.



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Guido

05-29-2014 18:03:01




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to rusted nuts, 05-27-2014 14:57:37  
Hello rusted nuts,

I'm hoping that I can ether clear it with some air. Or I will have to get it up. I have had well water since the sixties. Old house on am jet pump. After a few dig out the head scenarios, I made a cinder block pit. 1" and 1 1/4 " hoses with the tail pipe at 144". First water at 80 feet. I was a bit younger then. Pit less adapter should be a little easy with some grunt help. I'm hoping to do that in a week or so. May be I'll just supervise the grunts,

Guido.

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Retired Farmer

05-27-2014 14:23:15




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Guido, 05-27-2014 13:35:18  
If you are getting sand in the water, the pump impeller is probably worn out from the sand.



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Guido

05-29-2014 18:04:36




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 Re: Water well not producing volume LONG! in reply to Retired Farmer, 05-27-2014 14:23:15  
Hello Retired Farmer?

I hope you are wrong. But it may be just that,

Guido.



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