apartments, future housing?

pete black

Well-known Member
construction sites using tractors and building apartments. several locations with extremely large complexes of apartment, probably 50 or more per complex. is this the future on purpose or just what people want?
 
With so many forclosures, many people cant get a loan and are moving to apartments. Right now the rental market is booming.
 
Its all they can (or will be able to) afford. Being happy with less than your parents had is the "new normal".

There is also still a lull in construction so you can think of building an appartment as a good investment and its also "on sale" right now.
 
I worked for a multi-family management company for 3 years and owned rent houses for 30+years. I can tell you that most apartment dwellers would destroy a house if they were given one. Time after time I have seen apartments where tenants left furniture,food and clothes behind when they left. While they were living there they were subsidized and still couldn't pay their share of rent. They live on pizza and convenience store snacks which as you know is far more expensive than supermarket food. There is a huge population that has zero ambition to improve their life or position in socioty. As my dad would say "you can buy them books and send them to school but they will only eat the jackets and remain ignorant". I had the pleasure of working with a wish man who taught the rest of us a lot about human nature. Example,he called a street bum over to give him a quarter two days in a row. 4th & 5th day the bum came to the door and waved for the quarter. 6th day my co-worker put everyone on lookout so he could hide out. Sure enough when told Dean was busy,the bum waited around for 20 minutes. When Dean showed up he opoligized for being broke. The bum insisted Dean could borrow a quarter from one of us then called Dean all kinds of liars and sorry sons of so and sos when Dean failed to comply with his demands. Everone needs to understand what that means.
 
If investors didn't think there was a market for them, they wouldn't be building them.

Fact is, apartments/condominiums are a much more efficient use of space and resources than single family homes. That makes them cheaper to live in and more profitable to own.
 

When I was kid and for many years after there were plenty of people who lived in shacks. Laws were passed that made shacks illegal so more "low end" housing was needed. Under the Clinton Administration it was decided that everyone should own their own home, so banking laws were changed and the stage was set for sub prime lending. We all know where that led. There are still many people working entry level jobs who cannot afford to own. There are many who never will be able. Thus there is a need for plenty of apartments.
 
Most of those housing projects die before they are even started. "Big town" near me believes everything any developer tells them and gives tons of tax breaks and subsidies. The developer then takes the money and runs. They are currently dealing with an old hospital toxic waste dump and vagrant dorm that is now going to be torn down on the tax payer dime because they believed an NYC developer.

In my town, you can buy a decent house for less per month than rent in the same town. Problem is, most people today want taken care of and coddled like mommy did, so it is easier to rent and just call the land lord when something is wrong.
 
Lots of apts and townhouses around me.It seems the trend is away from a house and large lot in the 'burbs because of the time,expense and work to maintain the house and grounds.With these townhouses and apts there is no outside work to be done even painting the townhouse is covered in the annual fee.Not the way I'd want to live but it seems to be getting more popular all the time.I'll say most people with 5 to 20 acres around me the land is a liability as they're not interested in doing anything with it and they're paying taxes on it and paying someone to cut it off a couple times a year.City dwellers mentality is very different from country/farmer mentality
 
(quoted from post at 06:21:46 03/25/14) Lots of apts and townhouses around me.It seems the trend is away from a house and large lot in the 'burbs because of the time,expense and work to maintain the house and grounds.With these townhouses and apts there is no outside work to be done even painting the townhouse is covered in the annual fee.Not the way I'd want to live but it seems to be getting more popular all the time.I'll say most people with 5 to 20 acres around me the land is a liability as they're not interested in doing anything with it and they're paying taxes on it and paying someone to cut it off a couple times a year.City dwellers mentality is very different from country/farmer mentality

A lot of my friends have moved into condos. For them, it's better. If they want to go someplace, they just go. No maintenance, more time to spend on travel and grandkids.
 
Large apartment complexes are in right now. Easier to finance, one of the favorite investments of Wall Street firms, declining incomes, declining per capita savings, etc, etc.
 
Pete,

I think that the other problem is that many, if not most, builders are not willing to build small houses. I lived in a middle-class, blue collar neighborhood when I got out of the Navy and was starting a civilian career. All of the houses were 1,000 sq. ft. houses on slabs with no garages - either 2 or 3 small bedrooms, one bathroom, and no dining room.

Today, a house like that is a "Habitat for Humanity" house. The only homes like that around here are condominium apartments. Middle class, blue-collar folks are forced into deep debt or into an apartment.

At least, that's what it looks like to me.

Tom in TN
 
Market demand.

As we continue to overpopulate that drives wages down. Too many people applying for the same jobs. Lower wages mean people have to look for cheaper housing. Here in Houston we're seeing multiple families in single family homes. This used to be typically Asian or Hispanic now it's across all groups. They are putting up apartments in huge #'s here also.

There is fierce advertising competition for disposable income. How many people do you see that choose to spend money and incur debt on the latest gadget & junk. Those folks would be much better of throwing money at a home.

Rents here are high. Mobile homes and shacks start at 7-800/month and decent apartments 900-1000 and up. The people I know that are renting don't want to,but are not willing to get their financial priorities in line to buy.
 

High rise apartment complexes are the wave of the future. We are quickly running out of farm ground to build sub-divisions on.
 
What I have seen in one town 10 miles from me is that an apartment complex was built, then it is filled with black folks....Now this is in the high end suburb areas. What I think is happening in some areas is that a developer gets a loan and promises to fill it with blacks.....I could be wrong but how and why a new apartment complex is filled with these individuals is beyond me. Oh and there are no other blacks for at least 20 miles in all directions.
 
In my town, you can buy a decent house for less per month than rent in the same town.

That may be true for the actual mortgage payment, but that is generally only about 1/2 of what you send to the lender every month. There are also property taxes and school taxes that are for sure not additional expenses when you rent. Mortgage insurance, and homeowner's insurance add up too. Sometimes even utilities are included.
 
Unemployment and under employment are still a major problem in many areas. Some (many) people can't afford a house. Even if the monthly cost is the same, they don't have a down payment, and they don't have the money for maintenance.

Someone mentioned that builders don't build small houses anymore. There are reasons for that. First off, many towns won't allow it. There are minimum square footage requirements, there are requirements that builders have to install sod rather than seeding the lawn, nearly every town in my area requires that new homes have brick fronts. A few towns even require all brick exteriors. The list goes on and on.
The other reason no one builds small,cheap houses is they wouldn't be able to compete price wise with existing houses.

The county where I live and a couple of neighboring counties have made it clear they want people living in town. They've made it difficult and expensive to build in the country.
 
Pete, there are a couple of reasons builders don't build affordable starter homes.

The first one is demand: Back in the fifties and sixties, first time buyers tended to be couples with one paycheck. They also most likely grew up in fairly humble homes (think Depression years) and had lower expectations. First time buyers today tend to be either single people or couples with two incomes. They can afford more luxurious homes, and they expect them. Because of low interest rates and low down payments, they're buying starter homes that would have been mansions fifty years ago.

On the supply side, builders don't like to build cheap homes because they aren't profitable. You can't build a fifty thousand dollar home for a tenth the cost of a half-million dollar home. Land costs, utility hook ups and various municipal assessments are fixed costs regardless of how much the house is worth. So they build a few McMansions rather than a lot of 1000 square foot homes.
 

Most of the apartment building going up are subsidized by the government from the get go... The owner only has to put of 20% of his money... He does have to guarantee he will keep them up for 30 years... The other 80% is gave to him in tax checks... He can sell the tax checks are use them for his own use... He may find a buyer that will pay full value but normally he will sell them for 90 to 93% of the value... The buyer just saved 10% on his tax's... His his goal is to only have 20 to 27% of his money tied up in the project for 30 years...

It will be interesting to see if any of those apartments are standing in 30 years...
 
Nice imagery, but they really aren't as bad as all that. Nothing about living in an apartment (or townhouse, or condo) requires that you spend all your time in it. And many of them have more than four walls; actual rooms in fact, just like houses. I've been in many apartments that were far nicer than any house I've ever owned---more expensively furnished, better views, more spacious even.

After I got out of the army in 1970, I lived in Honolulu for a few years. I lived in an apartment in Moilili, a condo inland (or mauka---toward the mountains) from Ala Moana Park, and an apartment on Kalakaua just across the Ala Wai Canal from Waikiki. If that was hell, all I've got to say is, bring it on! I didn't get nearly enough of it.

Stan
 
That's true, but two people working one full time job each isn't that different from how most people do it nowadays. Of course, that was 40 years ago. Honolulu is more expensive now, I've heard.

Stan
 
By the way, Circus, what makes you equate "apartment" with things like hell, and cubicle? I'd guess you've had some really depressing experiences. All of the three apartment type places I lived in in Honolulu were more luxurious than any place I had previously lived in my life, and one of them was the equal of anything since. I will admit that being in Honolulu had a lot to do with it. The exact same apartment probably wouldn't strike me as nearly so great if it were located here in Olympia, WA.

Stan
 
Any place you live where you have anyone living closer than a mile from you is hell. lol.
Five miles would be bad enough.

Having said that, the majority of people nowdays are used to living like rats in a cage and don't know any different. Someone mentioned all of the expenses and hassles that go with property owership, especially for those who can't fix anything themselves. Another factor is that property taxes keep getting higher and higher and less and less people can afford to pay them. With all the stinking building codes and lot size requirements, it's darn near impossible to just build a simple basic home anymore. Gotta get a building permit to so much as build a doghouse. And God help you if you get caught building that doghouse without the permit. Almost have to hire an "engineer" to put up a set of clothes lines these days. I can go on forever, but the gist of it is it has become a real hassel to build or own a home nowdays and steadily getting worse.
 
Y'all seem to have a problem with apartment dwellers for some reason. You should be grateful so many people live in apartments, townhouses and suburban subs because if they all insisted on having their own five acres you'd have a helluva lot more neighbors.

For what it's worth, city living is not all that bad. It's what you make of it. I know plenty of happy city dwellers and I know plenty of miserable folks who live out in the country.
 
Hi Donald,

I agree with everything you said in your second paragraph.

My opinion is that in a rational and well run society, building permits and everything they entail would be optional for private, non-commercial buildings. Elements that impact the general infrastructure would still have to be regulated (i.e. You couldn't do your wiring in such a way that it could harm utility workers or shut down the power grid).

Selling a building that was built to current building codes, as evidenced by a permit, might then be like selling a product with a guarantee as opposed to a let the buyer beware situation.

There are plenty of problems with this idea---for example, whether parents own their children, or have a legal responsibility to provide at least minimal care for them would bear on whether they should be protected from having to live in an insane person's death trap of a house---but the problems could probably be worked out.

Stan
 
Since this is a tractor forum I would suspect most of the folks that participate on this site live in rural areas. Most folks that have lived in rural areas would struggle with the thought of living in town, and especially in an apartment building.

Hobo, where did you get your info that most apartment buildings are subsidized? I'm not sure how many apartment buildings we have around here. I would guess between 400-500 buildings. There are exactly 3 that are subsidized. They were all built in the 70's.
 
Whats so bad about Blacks? If you mean the sterotype I think you mean, many whites are black!!!!!I was a young man living close to a wonderful family of color. Hunted with him raised hunting dogs together. They rented their small farm to me when I was only 12 years old. My dad was not a trouble maker and was known to be well tempered. No one ever got away reculiting that family around him!!
 
(quoted from post at 01:47:19 03/29/14) Since this is a tractor forum I would suspect most of the folks that participate on this site live in rural areas. Most folks that have lived in rural areas would struggle with the thought of living in town, and especially in an apartment building.

Hobo, where did you get your info that most apartment buildings are subsidized? I'm not sure how many apartment buildings we have around here. I would guess between 400-500 buildings. There are exactly 3 that are subsidized. They were all built in the 70's.

Any of them were the rent is based on your income... Privately owned and privately built,,, I am not talking about government Public Housing ( projects) that are maintained by your local government (housing authority)...
 
Any of them were the rent is based on your income... Privately owned and privately built,,, I am not talking about government Public Housing ( projects) that are maintained by your local government (housing authority)...

OK, I know what you're talking about. Nothing like that in the immediate area. I sided several apartment buildings in another county that were probably something like what you're talking about. The ones I worked on the owner put up a portion of the money when he built them. A government agency either guaranteed the mortgage or they covered a portion of the interest. He told me what the deal was but that was 30 years ago. A certain percentage of the apartments had to be rented to low income people that received a rent subsidy. Part of the deal with the government agency was a certain percentage of the income from the buildings had to be reinvested in the buildings for maintenance or improvements. If I remember correctly the guy had to spend the money on the buildings by the 20 year mark. So about the time the buildings were showing some age he spruced them up to like new condition. Also, once the mortgage was paid off he didn't have to rent to subsidized renters. The guy had been building apartments in rural towns under that program since the 1960's. He was still doing so well into the 1990's. Maybe later. All of the buildings he owned were still in excellent condition. He didn't tolerate problem renters whether they were subsidized or not.
In the towns near where I live there are a lot of single family houses that have subsidized rent as well as apartments that have subsidized rent. Still, the vast majority of apartments in this area do not have subsidized renters.
 

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