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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: long ratchet extensions

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rustyfarmall

12-18-2013 06:54:35
208.126.186.41



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An extension should be used only when you can't reach the bolt or nut otherwise. The longer the extension, the less torque you can put to that stubborn nut.




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GUIDO

12-18-2013 11:54:51
71.168.200.122



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to rustyfarmall, 12-18-2013 06:54:35  
Hello rustyfarmall,

Socket extension does not change torque applied.
Torque wrench cheater bar DOES!

Guido.



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GordoSD

12-21-2013 09:08:56
216.106.249.93



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to GUIDO, 12-18-2013 11:54:51  
You got it backwards Guido.



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John T

12-18-2013 08:09:34
216.249.76.176



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to rustyfarmall, 12-18-2013 06:54:35  
YES and if you ever have to use an air impact wrench on a really tight nut, you can see just how much less effective it is if you start hanging extensions on there lol Energy gets wasted/absorbed in flex and vibration versus that which otherwise goes to direct torque grrrrrrrrr

John T



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GUIDO

12-18-2013 12:06:42
71.168.200.122



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to John T, 12-18-2013 08:09:34  
Hello John T,

You are talking about two different animals.
Loss of applied torque, and torque applied,

Guido.



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John T

12-18-2013 12:53:03
216.249.76.176



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to GUIDO, 12-18-2013 12:06:42  
EXACTLY some of the ENERGY supplied by the wrench gets wasted/absorbed in flex and vibration, therefore less energy is used to supply twisting force torque to the nut where its needed grrrrrrrrrrr

The extensions do not create or destroy energy, only change its form. The energy supplied by the wrench is all used (none created or destroyed) but some goes to turn the nut and the other as flex and vibration.

Its the old Physics principle of conservation of energy all over again

Fun chattin with ya

DISCLAIMER this opinion, like all others here, may be right or may be wrong, and Im not saying if it is or it isn't

John T

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Butch(OH)

12-18-2013 18:53:20
74.135.32.232



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to John T, 12-18-2013 12:53:03  
A person could place 100 feet of extensions between two torque wrenches and when the torque reading on the one being turned reached say 150 Foot lbs you will have exactly the same reading on the other end no matter how many revolutions you have to turn it to wind up all the extensions. Now put an 800lb capable impact wrench on the end of those extensions and you'd be lucky to get a bolt much over finger tight just as you said. BUT The reason the impact wont work with long extensions is the impact wrench applies torque in spikes that last only a few degrees followed by zero applied torque for many degrees. The extensions do not change the total amount off energy being developed. But due to the springing they spread that force out over a longer time period. Since they make or destroy no energy as you said the peak torque must come down when the time it is applied goes up.

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John T

12-18-2013 19:07:39
216.249.76.176



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to Butch(OH), 12-18-2013 18:53:20  
I agree, the impact wrench sits there and pulses and surges its energy output and each time it gets a hit the extensions flex/rotate a bit which absorbs energy but its returned when they flex back HOWEVER that flexing and return each time converts some of the input energy to heat instead of it all going to rotational torque......That's different then a straight dead pull on a breaker bar and once the extension reaches its elastic limit and turns/flexes no more, Id say torque in equal torque out after that PERHAPS, MAYBE LOL

John T

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GUIDO

12-18-2013 15:58:01
71.168.200.122



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to John T, 12-18-2013 12:53:03  
Hello John T,

It appears you have a good understanding of the energy dissipation, through metal flexing, while applying force-torque. The old energy explanation,
works for me1

Guido.



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John T

12-18-2013 19:02:47
216.249.76.176



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to GUIDO, 12-18-2013 15:58:01  
Another thing is the difference if you were using a breaker bar versus an air impact wrench. The impact wrench sits there and hammers and and surges and some of its output torque is absorbed and dissipated due to the rotational flexing of the extension each time the wrench hits it. If it were a perfect mechanical device (no friction or heat losses) the energy it absorbs would be returned each time the shaft bounced back but when theres friction and flexing involved I bet there are some wasted heat losses??? With a breaker bar (no surging pulsing and bouncing ) the extension can still flex, but once you turn it to its elastic limit if all was at 90 degrees, after that torque in should equal torque out Id guess?? But hey Im an electrical NOT a mechanical or structural engineer NO WARRANT MAY BE RIGHT OR WRONG AS RAIN LOL

Still a very fun chat

John T

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GUIDO

12-19-2013 06:49:17
71.168.200.122



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to John T, 12-18-2013 19:02:47  
Hello John T,

I guess we stole the thread! Anyhow torque values are not up for debate, it is not theory, its simple math. Torque wrench length X torque desired / torque wrench length = torque applied.
Changing the torque wrench length, will change torque applied period!

Guido.



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GordoSD

12-21-2013 08:53:25
216.106.249.93



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to GUIDO, 12-19-2013 06:49:17  
A torque wrench does not measure the force (lbs) at the end of the handle, It measures the force at the point of application (drive). The drive doesn't know and could care less how long the handle is.



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showcrop

12-19-2013 07:04:26
75.67.231.80



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 Re: long ratchet extensions in reply to GUIDO, 12-19-2013 06:49:17  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Yes, It will change the torque applied period! Then the torque wrench will still measure the tourque and the fastener and the parts and the mechanic and owner will all be happy. You can even put a six year old grand daughter on the wrench with a cheater, and she, (with a little guidance and perhaps help holding the head of the wrench) will be able to apply proper torque to a 5/8 bolt.

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