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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: MS250 again

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Billy NY

12-16-2013 08:42:16
72.226.79.200



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I've had bouts with hard starting with a '02 vintage MS390, which I think is in the same family 250,290 310, might not be but, there are some things I can think of that may or may not apply. Is this a cold start?

That might be a fuel line, not sure about the impulse line, but mine had a bad fuel line for awhile, runs/stalls, hard starting and any combination of similar problems.

When hot, I have on occasion, flooded it, thinking it cooled enough to have to choke or half choke, 2nd position on lever, and believe in those instances it was flooded, let it sit for a few minutes it will fire up. I realize its better to see if it will start no choke, then use the choke if no dice, after its been run, depends on the temperature, sometimes it cools right off and its a cold start, they are fussy that way or so mine is.

If you have to pull that many times on one of these, from my experience there is a problem.

Best case, no decompression on mine, with a clean air filter, no issues with spark plug,fuel lines or what have you, from cold, full choke, one pull, it should fire, maybe 2 if its sat awhile. from that first pull, I have been able to move the lever to the 2nd position, kept it running, then squeezed the trigger and worked the throttle, most times it cuts out, move the lever, pull and it does the same, and will keep running. Seems as that air filter,(and it does have an intellicarb) fills with particulates, its does take more to start. This one has been temper-mental with starting, and still cuts out sometimes on the descending side of the throttle, meaning, after a cut or some useage, even revving it a bit, it winds down it will cut out, like if you hit a switch, obviously fuel related, after a new fuel line was installed, sometimes you can move it, work the trigger, it will run, might just be the pick up in the tank, the position, you can make a wire hook to pull that and check the screen, I keep on in my saw tool box. One thing I am not impressed with is the barbed plug connecter, that is of some kind of spring steel and penetrates the plug wire to the coil or ignition module, that I always suspected the connection on this type, could be a problem.

I'll know soon as mine is going to be completely disassembled, have all new OEM plastic for it, and will be putting that on, replace fuel line impulse line, see if there is another ignition wire/plug connecter for it. I like the saw for the most part, plenty of power, I try to take care of it mechanically, but aesthetically from use and not having a case it shows, hopefully these problems are sorted out. I do recall it just seems to start and run better with good service and maintenance, performs great, but I won't lie, it has given me some trouble, like hard starting at times.

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woodbutcher

12-16-2013 09:35:56
38.114.125.178



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 Re: MS250 again in reply to Billy NY, 12-16-2013 08:42:16  
Thanks, Billy. Yes, it does this on cold starts, but I haven't been able to get it to run, so it might do it on warm starts also. But, I believe that if I could get it to run, a good warm-up might solve the problem. I pulled the plug, and there was more fuel around the base than I thought there should be, but the electrode was dry. Maybe it is flooding. When I try to drop-crank with the choke off, it still won't turn the crank. It's like I'm working against compression.
Butch

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Billy NY

12-16-2013 11:57:09
72.226.79.200



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 Re: MS250 again in reply to woodbutcher, 12-16-2013 09:35:56  
That sounds odd, well for the discussion here, has to be more to this, if its straight up pulling hard like you say and can't get it to run. Well you have fuel it seems. Its odd, because typically, thats how these seem to start, most times, you'll get it to fire on full choke, mover lever, but not squeeze trigger, and like you say 1-2 pulls it is running, thats how mine is, and it will start after sitting for months, I use Stihl oil in the fuel and some startron, the latter could be snake oil, but it seems to work, I'm on the 2nd fuel line, so I'll see if using that prevented the alleged ethanol/alcohol problem with fuel line material, these do get hot enough, I have to believe over time or use, that may also dry a fuel line out and make it fracture like mine did.

I have to wonder if so much fuel is getting in its vapor locked or hydraulic locked, don't even know if that is possible, I've never heard of this on one of these saws, and if its in running condition, no problems with the piston or cylinder, that is odd, something to learn here, hopefully someone can help here that has expertise, they are not the easiest to pull over, I cannot put my foot in the handle and do it on the ground, I always start it waist high, chain brake on and bar pointed away, for me its safer and easier, my friend has the decompression on the newer MS 360, a nice feature, but mine at 64CC is still not too bad, seems the air filter plays a role in this, I always clean that with compressed air, split in half and carefully blow out the particulates, you get a lot of that from dead dry wood, vs live or trees that have moisture, chips vs straight up dust.

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woodbutcher

12-16-2013 14:03:17
38.114.125.178



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 Re: MS250 again in reply to Billy NY, 12-16-2013 11:57:09  
I'll look for that Startron around here. I don't remember seeing it before.



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Billy NY

12-16-2013 21:41:02
72.226.79.200



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 Re: MS250 again in reply to woodbutcher, 12-16-2013 14:03:17  
I don't know if or in fact that this additive is or is not to the benefit of the fuel keeping, stihl 2 cycle oil I believe has its own additive. I run the higher octane fuel, local outfit was touting no ethanol fuel, so I'll have to check that out again, been awhile. Thing is, I rarely have any carb or fuel related problems, unless it is something that sits a for a long time, like years. Things that don't get run as much season to season, fuel seems stable, maybe not hoses and such, but the saw does sit for quite awhile summer, have not cut now since late sept/oct, 2-3 pulls it will start every time, barring any cracks in fuel or impulse lines. that took me just less than 2 hours the first time to replace, so even thats relatively easy, should go quicker the next time. Its a T-27 (torx) if I recall, will take all the screws out, get the covers off etc.

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EricB

12-16-2013 12:13:21
184.65.40.175



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 Re: MS250 again in reply to Billy NY, 12-16-2013 11:57:09  
On older well used saws it's also important to clean carbon out of the muffler (or buy a new one if it can't be disassembled) in order to maintain the right amount of resistance for fuel mixture/compression.



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woodbutcher

12-16-2013 14:04:11
38.114.125.178



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 Re: MS250 again in reply to EricB, 12-16-2013 12:13:21  
I'll try that, thanks.



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Billy NY

12-16-2013 12:59:53
72.226.79.200



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 Re: MS250 again in reply to EricB, 12-16-2013 12:13:21  
How'd I forget that, LOL ! yes very true, I have checked mine periodically, its never been loaded up, or ever needed cleaning, but that is going to vary by user and it does not look to difficult for that to happen, it would certainly cause problems. For some of these saws in that family, there is a modification that opens up the exhaust ports, as well as adjusting the carburetor, and checking with a small engine tachometer to insure you stay within the safe rpm range, so it seems they are restricted for emissions already, unlike those built outside of the U.S or exported, supposed to make them run better and last longer.

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