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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: Wire Size for Kewanee Elevator Motor

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John T PS

11-27-2013 10:41:21
216.249.76.176



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Time for an update based on new info, I was getting lost down below. I'm trying to give you a range of options now BUT AFTER THIS ITS YOUR CALL Any electric supply house can size a starter and thermals and safety switch (use NEMA 3R for outdoor use) and fuses and/or Twist Lock Receptacles and Plugs now, let them figure the rest of this lol

The picture is what we were thinking, capacitors in that box plus what appears to be a thermal overload with reset.

1) I would still prefer a two pole fused safety switch disconnect at each location in sight and within 50 feet of the elevator. If you're running 10 gauge from it to the elevator, Id use a 30 amp regular fuse and in the event it doesn't allow the motor to start (which I doubt), Id use Class K5 Dual Element Time Delay Fuses.

NOTE AS I RECALL a simple female Receptacle at the barn and a male Plug on the cord to the elevator can serve as the "means of disconnection" i.e. A full blown Safety Switch IS NOT NECESSARILY REQUIRED. Id use 30 amp 2 Pole 3 Wire Grounding Twist Lock Receptacles and a matching Plug. HOWEVER if you do that remember the overcurrent protection device in your main panel (that feeds the receptacle) would have to be a 30 amp (for the 10 gauge cord to elevator) even thought you're still running 8 Gauge from the panel to receptacle.

ID STILL WANT A MOTOR STARTER although Billy Bob could start it across the line by just flipping the safety switch to on which may eventually burn n carbon up the switch knife and contacts lol

You could use a cheaper simple ON/OFF two push button mechanical two pole 240 volt starter with thermals (heaters) just size it for the Motors HP and FLA. The electric supply shop could do that.

Such a device could be mounted underneath the Safety Switch,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Or above the Receptacle,,,,,,,,,,,,Or buy a "Combination Starter" which is BOTH a Safety Switch PLUS Motor Starter all built into a single enclosure.

Likely the cheapest yet still legal system would be a mechanical two button On Off starter with thermals and receptacle and Receptacle mounted under it,,,,,,,,,,Next cheapest a fused safety switch with a starter under it but then you still need a recp and plug out to the elevator,,,,,,,,,,,Probably most expensive is a Combination Starter but I haven't priced this stuff in years so no warranty.

This all hinges on a Receptacle and Plug serving as the "means of disconnection" which I think is fine (No warranty however) thereby no safety switch is required, but I would still like a starter with thermals even if the motor still has that built in overload device. A real Billy Bob might rely on the motors overload device and just use a plug and receptacle but I dont like to start a motor by just plugging into a receptacle YIKES lol Heck at least have a knife type safety switch Bubba can throw!!! Better buy a real "starter" dont ya think???

If my prices or NEC (and Plug & Recp as disconnect) are out of whack maybe Dusty Man can straighten me out???

NUFF SAID rest is up to you

John T

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MFan

11-27-2013 13:10:52
192.43.65.245



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 Re: Wire Size for Kewanee Elevator Motor in reply to John T PS, 11-27-2013 10:41:21  
Thanks again for all the input.

Perhaps this opens another can of worms, but do am I correct to think the ground wire in the circuit needs to be similar size to hot wires.

EXAMPLE: 8 AWG for L1 and L2, 8 AWG for ground?



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John T

11-27-2013 14:24:39
216.249.76.176



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 Re: Wire Size for Kewanee Elevator Motor in reply to MFan, 11-27-2013 13:10:52  
When I designed I just usually specified the same size HOWEVER if you dig deep in the NEC (Mines soooooo outdated) there are some exceptions that permit it to be smaller wire in certain situations, but Im wayyyyyyyy to lazy to look that up lol

John T



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Dusty MI

11-27-2013 16:32:29
76.250.62.134



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 Re: Wire Size for Kewanee Elevator Motor in reply to John T, 11-27-2013 14:24:39  
The plug and receptacle is good for a disconnect. The starter could be mounted on the elevator near to the motor. That way only 1 starter is needed no mater how many different you places you plug in.

You can get 8-2 w/ground cable, not cord to run to the receptacles. Use cord to go to the starter and motor.

Dusty



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