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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ?

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Dr. Walt

11-22-2013 12:24:23
12.2.223.79



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Everything else being equal; which is better, a Cummins 5.9 Turbo Diesel or a Ford 7.3 Powerstroke Turbo Diesel ?

Thanks in advance.

Doc




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T in NE

11-23-2013 10:27:41
75.238.77.222



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
It's hard to beat the reliability of a mechanical Cummins or a 7.3 powerjoke- but the Cummins will take a lot more abuse than the International will due to the fact it was designed to be used in construction and farm equipment- where it could be run at full load/full throttle for hours and days on end. The 7.3 was built as a truck engine only.



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skip33652

11-23-2013 05:37:38
68.69.74.91



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
ford truck, cummins engine allison trans and gm seats would be my ideal truck .Paul



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mick in il.

11-23-2013 05:29:32
99.116.132.47



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
I like the 5.9 cummins, if I had my choice to build the perfect truck, I'd have a 5.9 cummins in a Ford truck with a allisons tranny from chevy.



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jdemaris

11-23-2013 05:18:07
70.194.4.79



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Define "better." The word means different things to different people in different settings.

5.9 Cummins and 7.3 IH-Ford have the same longevity under equal care and usage. But the Cummins will give better fuel mileage - from any I know of.

From an engineering perspective - the Cummins is absolutely built heavier then the Ford-IH 7.3. But who cares if they both can outlast the trucks they are in?

I still have my 92 Dodge 4WD extended-cab, long-box, 5.9 turbo-intercooled. 3.50 axles and Getrag 5 speed manual.

I also have a 94 Ford 4WD extended-cab, long-box, 7.3 IDI turbo. 4.10 axles and E40D trans (auto with lockup and OD).

The Dodge pulls hills better with a trailer and always gets 2-3 MPG better then the Ford. Considering it has 3.50 axles whereas the Ford has 4.10s the ability to pull better is impressive. The Dodge always gets better MPGs, loaded or empty. Granted that my 7.3 is not a later DI Powerstroke 7.3 but I've used a few. More pulling power and same MPGs, more-or-less.

If I had to say which of my two trucks were "better" . . . I'd say the Dodge-Cummins is "better" for hard pulling and economy. The Ford is "better" for comfort. It rides and handles like a Cadillac and the Dodge rides like a Sherman tank.

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RodInNS

11-22-2013 21:12:36
216.118.158.123



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Cummins.



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Hoof print

11-22-2013 19:12:28
98.16.105.165



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  

The 7.3 and the 12 valve cummins are both excellent engines, and they will both give execellent service. Pick the truck you like the best and enjoy it.



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JMOR

11-22-2013 20:02:03
72.181.173.171



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Hoof print, 11-22-2013 19:12:28  
With all respect to DR. Walt, I must say that these kinds of questions are really not worth asking. Every AH out there has to defend whatever he has made the decision to buy......otherwise he would be saying, "hey look at me, I am an idiot & bought this POS!"



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Dr. Walt

11-24-2013 03:14:57
12.2.223.79



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to JMOR, 11-22-2013 20:02:03  
JMOR:

I thought the purpose of these forums was for people like myself that need answers to questions can get those answers from the vast array of people that DO have the answers.

I know absolutely nothing about diesel engines for pickup trucks other than the Cummins 5.9 & the 7.3 Powerstroke are both very good engines; BUT . . . I ask a plain, simple, and honest question and everyone acts as if I committed a crime to dare to ask the question.

All I want is the PRO's & CON's from BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE.

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varmint

12-22-2013 07:43:17
216.237.70.109



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-24-2013 03:14:57  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

USED to be that way but a lot of bs being spred now



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D7fever

11-22-2013 18:05:38
96.240.210.152



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Well, I have the Cummins, had a Ford,buddie has a Chevrolet, all pre DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER. I like the Cummins better than a Ford, no y pipe, 6 cylinders, plenty of power, buddie has had good luck with his Chevy. However, anything with a DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER is apt to be a problem.
I was looking at a new Dodge, but read horror stories about the dpf so not so sure now. They are probably all good, I guess with any of them if you have problems you have to start throwing $1,000 bills at it.

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flambeauone

11-22-2013 17:48:26
66.87.102.117



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
I loved my 5.9. It never gave me any trouble in 230000 miles. I agree with the others that its a matter of opinion and personal experience. Personally, I would be more concerned about how the truck has been maintained, and how its been modified. I wouldnt hesitate to buy either if it had been maintained.



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Dr. Walt

11-22-2013 17:35:58
12.2.223.79



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
THANK YOU EVERYONE for your very informative responses . . . the second time around.

I noticed in the link provided by JMOR, the durability ratings provided by jdemaris, that the Isuzu 6H diesel has a B10 rating of 410K miles while everyone else only have a B10 rating in the 200K to 250K miles.

Does anyone know if that Isuzu engine is available in a "pickup" style truck or is it only available in "commercial" type vehicles.

Doc

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Billy Shafer

11-22-2013 17:00:38
173.185.117.60



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
We have both at the feed store where I work. The Dodge with the Cummins. Will out pull the Ford all day long.



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ShadetreeRet

11-22-2013 16:46:28
76.3.100.234



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Cummins builds some tough engines. In your question, you specified the 7.3 Power stroke. The 7.3 was a tough workhorse, but I understand that they are no longer produced. So one would have to really check out the pros and cons from those who own the newer engines. While diesels do have a reputation for lasting a long time, you have to ask your self, will I actually save any money over the long haul with a diesel? Fuel is more expensive, they require more maintenance, Fuel and oil filters are more expensive. They require more oil per change. and they cost more initially. Just my thoughts.

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GordoSD

11-22-2013 16:34:41
216.106.255.140



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  

I'm going to sell this creampuff soon. 96 12 valve 148K



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mike m

11-23-2013 05:36:06
184.20.169.244



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to GordoSD, 11-22-2013 16:34:41  
I thought you would of sold it by now? I remember this picture from awhile back and I thought you even priced it. I had a gasser just like it. Very good truck. Only thing I didn't like was the wondering steering and the GM brake system they used on the front.



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GordoSD

11-23-2013 14:06:55
216.106.255.140



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to mike m, 11-23-2013 05:36:06  
Buyer turned it down.



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big jt

11-22-2013 15:04:46
206.72.54.246



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
As I am gonna be in the market for a pickup in the category within a couple of years I asked my high school friend pretty much the same question. Main background on him for this conversation, he is a service tech for a small ford dealer.

His response was if you want a rattler go with a inline 6. Ford is still having problems and Chevy has issues with the water separator. He qualified with Chevy if the water separator was serviced regularly you would be ok with a chevy but stay away from ford. This is from a Ford service tech.

He also said that all the gassers were good.

jm2cw

jt

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David G

11-22-2013 15:02:38
205.215.206.18



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
I have had 7.3, 6.0 and 6.7 Ford and 6.6 Duramax Diesels. The Duramax was the weakest of the bunch. I like the weight and suspension on the Ford for pulling, the trailer does not seem to wag the truck as bad as other brands.

The Fords will run all day at 85 plus.



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JMOR

11-22-2013 14:41:57
72.181.173.171



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeSee demaris B-ratings post on page 1 of

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1081577&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0



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crwilson

11-22-2013 14:31:37
64.250.36.158



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
I've owned several of both. I wouldn't have anything but the new Ford diesel, the 6.7. To date Ford has not been inside of one yet. It has the six speed auto in it which is the same transmission they use in the bigger trucks. It will pull my forty foot goose neck ninety miles an hour loaded up any hill you want to put it on. It is a hoss. It gets twenty four unloaded on a two lane road and nineteen on the interstate running seveyty five. I've had fifteen diesel 3/4 and one ton trucks in the past twenty years and this is the best truck I've ever owned bar none. My dad owned Dodges with the new and old Cummins and my Ford 7.3 would walk all over his Dodges. He finally admitted it and started buying Fords. He was a Hot-Shotter. They all have duds but the new 6.7 is the best diesel on the road today.

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gmccool

11-22-2013 14:15:53
76.9.55.56



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Dr. Walt
On a little more serious note I will go into more details than in my previous note. I have owned several of both 7.3s & 5.9s. I used to do a LOT of hauling & pulling for a living. The 5.9s will get about 2 mile per gallon better than the 7.3s The 5.9 will lug better in the mountains. BUT I had tranny troubles in the dodges (automatics)when I had around 400-450K on them. The Fords were trouble free for the most part but I did have front wheel bearing trouble at about 250K & I thought the seats were starting to break down before there time BUT I usually only put about 350K on them before I traded as per the Dodges I ran about 600K before I moved them. I think as far as buying used I would look at maintenance schedules & like anything used just hope for the best.

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Dr. Walt

11-22-2013 13:39:28
12.2.223.79



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Come on guys, I'm SERIOUS ! I'm not trying to stir any pot. For the most part, I've always been a GM guy & Gas engines to boot; but I need to haul a HEAVY load to the top of a mountain on a repetitive basis and I'm looking to buy a good used DIESEL truck. I know both engines will do the job but which engine is better economically, fuel wise, miles per gallon, durability, etc. . I've NEVER owned a Diesel truck before and I need this information on which to base my decision.

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wile E

11-22-2013 12:55:45
75.129.76.76



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
The only REAL answer is to look up the warranty costs and issues to customers and FORD and XSLER directly. I have no idea, nor do I care.



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State of Jefferson

11-22-2013 12:55:35
75.210.46.11



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Weeeeeeeellllllll...

I'm a devout Ford guy.

But I just melted a piston in my 7.3 Powerstroke. If I had an extra $15k sittin around I'd be replacing that engine w/ a newer Cummins, rather than the plan I have to just rebuild what I've got...

Ben



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John A.

11-22-2013 15:33:09
64.128.16.238



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to State of Jefferson, 11-22-2013 12:55:35  
St. of Jeff, What was the Chip, Setting, Load, Pyrometer reading when you melted that piston on your 7.3???
Later,
John A.



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State of Jefferson

11-22-2013 21:42:35
75.247.44.241



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to John A., 11-22-2013 15:33:09  
Hey John,

Edge tuner.
80 hp setting, I think...
It nudged 1300 for a bit, then I backed out.

I don't think it's a matter of it getting hot this one time. It's been worked pretty hard for the last 120k that I've owned it. Probly some before that...
I have a truck so I can USE it, perhaps a little toooo hard. Expensive lesson, but that's the breaks, nothin lasts forever...

Ben



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John A.

11-23-2013 06:10:38
64.128.16.238



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to State of Jefferson, 11-22-2013 21:42:35  
St. of Jeff., It does happen they will let go when worked really hard. I had a neighbor in the Panhandle back in the 80s he had an old COE Pete with and 400 hp 855cid Cummins, after the first rebuilt it was punched out to 435HP when it came out of every rebuild. This was back in the day when a full rebuild kit cost about $1500/$2000 and a weekend of work and a guy was back haulin on Monday/Tuesday
He was a pump twister. As soon as he got his truck from the shop he reset the pump and took a set of pliers and Cut the Pyrometer lead! He would melt down that engine every 18 months or so!, get a new rebuild kit,...3 days later he was screaming down the Boulevard! Guys would ask him what his pyrometer reading was most of the time His usual reply was...What is a pyrometer? He ran the everliving crap out of that old truck. OBYW it had a Turned-around 10 speed in it. H3LL it would run 40 mph in Reverse!
The guy was a Bull-wagon Hand, Been known to have been Clocked and Stopped at 120mph with a full load of Cattle comming out of Tenn. Headed back to the High Panhandle of Texas/Okla.
Anyway sustained high temps will kill a Dsl as fast as anything. It was previous times where the temps went unchecked was where the damage happened, it just happened to be at this time when it let go.
I agree with you a truck is to be used, But if you are pushing it hard, asking it to do more than it is suppose to, the Operators must stay on top of the Gauges, at all times!! Yes, and expensive lesson. I don't think it is the engines fault here. Take care.
Later,
John A.

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State of Jefferson

11-23-2013 07:58:32
75.247.0.105



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to John A., 11-23-2013 06:10:38  
Haha! I like to go, and I perhaps expect a little too much out of my mechanical objects, but not to the extreme of your friend...

At least not since I've matured >;-)

I had known that I was pushing the limits on this engine. It can't be faulted for my impatience. I just HATE creeping up some mtn pass doing 30mph, so I push it. Not real likely my habits will change. Much. Rebuild it, it'll go another 200k, by then the body will be junk and it'll be time for a replacement...

Have a good'n!

Ben

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da.bees

11-22-2013 12:50:06
72.181.176.234



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

This weather have you cooped up with nothing better to do than try to stir up trouble?



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JMOR

11-22-2013 12:37:39
72.181.173.171



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeWhat?! You trying to generate traffic for YT web site or something? You will get nothing more useful than this response of mine. Can you say opinion? You know, just like that other thing that everyone has one of.



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gmccool

11-22-2013 12:35:29
76.9.55.56



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
It is like comparing Apples to Tennis shoes. The Cummins will get better fuel economy & will still be running when the 7.3 will be shipped to China & then sent back as a arcade toy.



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David G

11-22-2013 12:29:57
205.215.206.18



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to Dr. Walt, 11-22-2013 12:24:23  
Apples and Oranges.



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varmint

12-22-2013 07:40:25
216.237.70.109



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 Re: O.T. - Engines, Which is Better ? in reply to David G, 11-22-2013 12:29:57  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

the cummins is medium duty an the ford is rated as a light duty engine



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