environmental concerns again

Having been reading and thinking about the post below on environmental concerns.

While we can debate the cause of it; I think we can agree that temperatures have been rising in the recent past. If they are still rising; leveled off; or we are now on decreasing temperature swing is unknown because we are talking long term research.
I can not consider the fact that temperatures have risen in the past or we had ice ages because we could be on a natural temperature rise now and still be contributing to the problem; in turn accelerating the problem.

On the other hand; if we could prove beyond a shadow of a drought that man is the only cause of this temperature rise; still nothing will be done. We as a group are not going to give up our fossil fuels or other things attributed to the cause and go back to living like we did in the 1800's.

With temperature rise set aside; I think we are doing plenty more harm. It is just not talked about as much because there is not a buck to be made from talking about it.

Such things as........

Companies disposing of radioactive material on the hush hush because the proper person has been paid off and it is not common knowledge that the said company deals in this type material.

The introduction of foreign species (animals) into a country they are not native to destroying entire eco systems.

The man made altering of eco systems without knowing the full destructive value of said altering. Such as flood control levees that cut off natural flooding of bottom land. The manipulation of river courses to suit our needs even though nature pays for it.

Trying to purposely manipulate climate and rain of a area threw cloud seeding without understanding how this effects other areas long term climate.

The depletion of natural clean water sources to grow crops and raise farm animals on marginal or desert lands.

All of these will bite us in the but one day.
But like anything else it is always....
I am whole heartily for conversion as long as you do it in somebody else's backyard.
 
I do not know who or what causes climate change, but believe we should all do what we can to leave air and water clean for our children.

I am ashamed of the water quality in Iowa.
 
Or quarrying large amounts of limestone to make concrete for water shedding highways and green space hogging buildings.
Also this continued mining of copper for electrical wires, and the high energy consuming process of making aluminum for the same reasons.
If we REALLY want to be green we will back civilization up about 10,000 years and live WITH nature instead of continually trying to beat it.
Yes every action has an equal and opposite reaction is still true. It just remains to be seen how bad the reaction is, also in case no one else notices, mother nature wins every time.
 
You will need to look much farther back than 10,000 years to find an era when mankind had little or no effect upon the environment.

I doubt that you have seen any wooly mammoth, mastodon or giant ground sloth lately. Nor have you seen any neanderthals.

Of course, manking is not the only species that has an effect upon the environment....

Dean
 
Another important "enviornmental" concern is what we're leaving for our children-- morally. You could even ask "is it morally right for government to already spend the tax money they haven't earned yet".
 
Mice alter their environment too.

Conservation and recycling and lowering our footprint is a good idea in general, and appeals to a conservative like me. So some of the green movement would be so appealing...

But most of it appears to just be a power/ money grab.

If Al Gore lived in a modest house and teleconferences instead of jetting all over the world, it would make more sense to me. He is just the poster boy, all the 'green' groups are the same as him.....

The 'Green' folks aren't leaving a smaller footprint, better world, they just use any temperature change for their own goals of power and money.

So as you say, nothing is going to change.

And as we are born with self preservation, really it would be quite odd for anything to actually change? Only way to really change course, if for the population to shock downward drastically.

And how do we accomplish that, morally?

Anyhow, I am for better energy sources, better conservation, but I find most all folk talking that talk to be very two faced worms.

Paul
 
Good point but government earns NO money.

Government has no money that it has not first lifted from someone who has earned it.

Dean
 
7+ billion people on a planet that could possibly sustain long term half of that number, all with or wanting the cars, trucks, cell phones and everything else that goes along with life these days
 
Over population is the real problem. Pollution, emissions, natural resource shortages, etc. are just side effects.
 
It might sound harsh to some of you but I don't have kids so after I'm gone it's all over.
This last election changed a lot for me.
I became something of an existential nihilist.
So in the words of Rhett to Scarlett...

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xLnTWxpTQt4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
John, I live in BR, and on a busy day with traffic on I-10 at a standstill for miles, I am bewildered by how many gallons of fuel are being consumed in this incident and realizing they are happening all across our nation and probably the world
 
(quoted from post at 20:12:19 09/29/13) Are you willing to have half of your friends, family, co-workers, neighbours "eliminated" to save the world.
n the news now!

An exhaustive United Nations report that claimed with 95% certainty that humans are responsible for global warming left out data that found the planet has stopped warming over the last 15 years, because it did not fit with the climate change agenda it wanted to advance.

The report, produced by the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), could not explain "why the planet has largely stopped warming over the past 15 years." So it just ignored it. According to the climate data from the U.K.'s weather-watching Met Office, "global surface temperatures rose rapidly during the 70s," but they have "have been relatively flat over the past decade and a half, rising only 0.05 degrees Celsius (0.09 degrees Fahrenheit)."

In September, a draft of the U.N. report simply could not explain why the surface temperatures have not warmed.

“Due to natural variability, trends based on short records are very sensitive to the beginning and end dates and do not in general reflect long-term climate trends,” the report now reads. "There may also be ... an overestimate of the response to increasing greenhouse gas and other anthropogenic forcing."

Judith Curry, professor and chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology, said if the "if the pause continues beyond 15 years (well it already has), they are toast.”

There have been many reports that have shown how climate models have vastly overestimated "warming." For instance, a study in the journal Nature Climate Change "compared 117 climate predictions made in the 1990's to the actual amount of warming" and 114 of those predictions overestimated the amount of warming. Other studies have found that various climate models used by the United Nations have "forecasted two times more global warming than actually occurred."

As Breitbart News reported, a group of 50 international scientists released a comprehensive new report, which cited thousands of peer-reviewed articles the United Nations-sponsored panel on climate change ignored, "concluded that evidence now leans against global warming resulting from human-related greenhouse gas emissions."


Top MIT scientist: Newest UN climate report is ‘hilariously’ flawed
1:27 PM 09/29/2013



Not all scientists are panicking about global warming — one of them finds the alarmism “hilarious.”

A top climate scientist from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology lambasted a new report by the UN’s climate bureaucracy that blamed mankind as the main cause of global warming and whitewashed the fact that there has been a hiatus in warming for the last 15 years.

“I think that the latest IPCC report has truly sunk to level of hilarious incoherence,” Dr. Richard Lindzen told Climate Depot, a global warming skeptic news site. “They are proclaiming increased confidence in their models as the discrepancies between their models and observations increase.”

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change claimed it was 95 percent sure that global warming was mainly driven by human burning of fossil fuels that produce greenhouse gases. The I.P.C.C. also glossed over the fact that the Earth has not warmed in the past 15 years, arguing that the heat was absorbed by the ocean.

“Their excuse for the absence of warming over the past 17 years is that the heat is hiding in the deep ocean,” Lindzen added. “However, this is simply an admission that the models fail to simulate the exchanges of heat between the surface layers and the deeper oceans.”

“However, it is this heat transport that plays a major role in natural internal variability of climate, and the IPCC assertions that observed warming can be attributed to man depend crucially on their assertion that these models accurately simulate natural internal variability,” Lindzen continued. “Thus, they now, somewhat obscurely, admit that their crucial assumption was totally unjustified.”

Scientists have been struggling to explain the 15-year hiatus in global warming, and governments have been urging them to whitewash the fact that temperatures have not been rising because such data would impact the upcoming climate negotiations in 2015.

The Associated Press obtained documents that show the external_link administration and some European governments pressured UN climate scientists to downplay or even omit data that shows the world hasn’t warmed in over a decade.

“Germany called for the reference to the slowdown to be deleted, saying a time span of 10-15 years was misleading in the context of climate change, which is measured over decades and centuries,” the AP report said. “The U.S. also urged the authors to include the ‘leading hypothesis’ that the reduction in warming is linked to more heat being transferred to the deep ocean.”

Global warming skeptics have exploited such data to show that the science behind manmade global warming is faulty and politically driven.

n attributing warming to man, they fail to point out that the warming has been small, and totally consistent with there being nothing to be alarmed about,” Lindzen said. “It is quite amazing to see the contortions the IPCC has to go through in order to keep the international climate agenda going.”

However, believers in catastrophic global warming have said the UN report should serve as a wake-up call to those who would deny the issue’s urgency.

“Those who deny the science or choose excuses over action are playing with fire,” said Secretary of State John Kerry. “Once again, the science grows clearer, the case grows more compelling and the costs of inaction grow beyond anything that anyone with conscience or common sense should be willing to even contemplate.”

The UN is set to release its full assessment of the world’s climate on Monday.
 
As I stated in the earlier thread, the environmental movement is little more than an ancient pagan religion recently revitalized by proven fraud Rachael Carson.

This, of course explains much as religious zealots are rarely influenced by facts.

Dean
 
"Scientists have been struggling to explain the 15-year hiatus in global warming, and governments have been urging them to whitewash the fact that temperatures have not been rising because such data would impact the upcoming climate negotiations in 2015.

[b:8e1dad8663]The Associated Press obtained documents that show the external_link administration and some European governments pressured UN climate scientists to downplay or even omit data that shows the world hasn’t warmed in over a decade. [/b:8e1dad8663]"

Once things like that are show, the rest of the report is suspect.

One other thing I'd mention- The answers given often include things like electric cars. "You just plug them in instead of burning fossil fuels!" Yet, the vast majority of power produced in this nation that provides the power to "plug it in" is produced from fossil fuels! Like the people who won't kill their own meat but buy it from the supermarket somehow thinking it's magically produced in the back of the store somehow, the logic is lacking!
 
Its clear to see that the whole "global warming" issue is a crock and that the ALGORE crowd stood to make a lot of $ on green energy and cap and trade schemes.
I think that its funny as he$$ that their house of lies is collapsing, along with the reputation of the frauds currently in washington.
JMOR: you positively ROCK!!!!
Great post!
 
I find amusing the terms 'save the planet' and that we are harming 'nature'.

The earth is a ball of rock with an iron core.

We live on a relatively microscopic layer of soil and water.

The earth or 'nature' really doesn't care if all is desert or water.

As has been stated a far greater problem for our children and grandchildren is the enormous debt we are piling on their shoulders so that politicians can 'give' something to a certain group of people.

Brad
 
If you haven't seen any neanderthals lately, you haven't been to WalMart.

Not going to the climate change issue but with the US now in the "global world" lots of invasive species & plants not native to this contry are now here and causing lots of problems.
Norway rats, fire ants, crazy ants and Chinese tallowood tree are a few that come to mind. The environmental damage just those few do is immense.
 
Look up the temperature statistics for the years 1912-1914 and compare it to recent years. Then tell us about global warming.
 
Often one of the local TV weathercasters will show the record high for a particular month and day. !913 was really in the news in my state for that.
Look at the website at the link below. Does that make a case for it getting hotter in the USA?
Record high temperatures
 
They omitted the last 16 years of no global warming because it isn't predicted by any of their climate models. If their climate models can't come to today's conditions by putting in conditions from the past, there must be an inherent flaw in the information put into the model.
 
(quoted from post at 21:17:56 10/08/13) They omitted the last 16 years of no global warming because it isn't predicted by any of their climate models. If their climate models can't come to today's conditions by putting in conditions from the past, there must be an inherent flaw in the information put into the model.

Actually what happens when information like that is presented and they are asked to defend their position is, they resort to saying things like, "You're too stupid to understand." and "Global cooling is part of global warming!"

In the initial IPCC report in the first few pages there was a statement that said more or less that any data refuting the global warming theory found within the report was to be ignored. I forget just how they worded it, but it was a baffling statement to discover.
 
(quoted from post at 18:54:59 09/29/13)
Of course, manking is not the only species that has an effect upon the environment.... Dean

Cow farts (sorry, had to say it)
 
I'm still baffled about what's wrong with climate change. If one looks back into history the earth is nothing but one big climate change, it's changed before, it will change again. Would we want a sheet of ice covering Canada and most of northern U.S. ? I'm sure not, it's that pesky global warming that has us where we are today over that time.
 
(quoted from post at 18:54:59 09/29/13)
Of course, manking is not the only species that has an effect upon the environment.... Dean

Cow farts (sorry, had to say it)
 
Man, try to be clever and it comes back to bite. Sorry for the multiple posts. Moderator can you delete the "extras"?
 
(quoted from post at 17:23:08 09/29/13)
(quoted from post at 20:12:19 09/29/13) Are you willing to have half of your friends, family, co-workers, neighbours "eliminated" to save the world.

............The UN is set to release its full assessment of the world’s climate on Monday.

the UN ain't got nothing to say that any body should listen too they ain'nt never done nuthing but run there mouth any way
 

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