steel entry doors with steel casement?

Wile E

Well-known Member
The front door to my house is rather cheesy.
One good kick with a workboot and my door will just fall in.
Who makes, and where can I get a steel entry door that has a steel frame? I looked at home depot, page after page is the standard foam core with thin steel exterior with a wood brick moulding.
Can somebody help me out here?
 
Sounds like you want commercial or industrial door frame and door. They are , usually in 3-0 (36 inch) or larger , and are available thru industrial or specialty door and window stores. Look up Steel entry door, to find a dealer.
 
Well first off forget getting much of anything of "Quality" at big box store. They sell to people that are price only crowd so quality is not much of a consideration.

Go to a regular lumber yard. They will be able to get you a commercial entry door. That is what you are looking for.
 
To get a steel frame, you will have to get a commercial steel entry system. The rough opening sizes are different than for residential systems so probably not a good solution. Menards sells them on a special order and they are expensive. You can put a piece of flat iron on the outside of the frame with the proper holes drilled in it and it will make your door more secure. If someone wants in, they will get in anyway.
 
Yes,
But, making it more difficult to get in is important.
Crooks want easy quick access.
I have a home alarm system. I also have a doorwall that is wedged shut with a 2x2 piece of wood. I have deadbolts, but the front door and the wood frame in my opinion will not stand up to an attack. Helping to prevent a break-in is a start. Having a home safe also helps.
Thanks for the info.
 
Search "commercial hollow-metal door frames". If you go this route, a three piece knockdown frame would be your best bet for replacing your existing door. However, this style frame would require drilling and dimpling for additional fasteners for your security requirements.
Keep in mind these frames are typically meant to be installed with the wall sliding into the throat of the jamb. Therefore your wall thickness will dictate the frame you use. You can case the opening, then slide a welded frame into that opening and attach the frame to your casing. This requires "slugging" the frame with morter or concrete first. One advantage to going with a commercial door is the use of commercial hardware, which is far superior to residential in quality and security. I hope this info helps.
Hope this info helps.
 
You are free to do as you wish but here is a idea. It sounds like security is the main issue for replacing the door. Why don't you just buy a OUT SWING door, I have installed dozens of them (lets just say in areas where there are a lot of euthenic back ground people that get there doors kicked in) They are just like regular doors with frames, brick moldings, thresholds, ect & look like they should be on a house rather than on a shop. But they swing OUT instead of IN. Gerald
 
Stanley makes them or at least used to. That's what we put on our old mobile home to replace the original crappy door.
 
fire rated doors are steel with a steel frame---with a dead bolt added it is quite secure
got mine at home depot
 
Sorry Sportster I didn't proof read my comment nor did I use spell check. My comment was only intended to help someone resolve there problem. Gerald
 
The problem with a "swing out door" is that it can be pryed open with a crowbar.

Many years ago on a TV show I saw a special deadbolt that went the entire width of the door with a latch in the center. And the latch would engage this large long deadbolt in and out of a set of U brackets. The long deadbolt ran from the hinge side to the open side of the door.
I have never seen these for sale anywhere.
 
These days there are portable sawzalls ,porta band saws . carbide blades . Almost any door can be entered if enougfh force is used. Confuscious say Man who collect many valuables should not be mad when valuables are stolen --somethin' like that.
 
(quoted from post at 14:05:22 09/29/13) Yes Just post the definintion.That would be fine.

Are you telling me you dont know how to look up a word? Is that how low the education system has slipped? You do know, that if you type the word you dont know into google, it will auto correct spelling and point you to several online dictionaries, dont you?

First you say a word is not in the dictionary when it clearly is and then you want me to spoon feed you the info? Unbelievable..... My offer to help you find it was facetious. You can look that one up too when you look up EUTHENIC.
 
Since you have insulted me and made a big deal about this I still stand EUTHENIC not a word . Google it I just did NOT A WORD [read that slowly] .
 
(quoted from post at 14:25:05 09/29/13) So what is the definition ? First the annoying UUUmmm comment then you can't even supply an answer.

I just supplied you with the answer, please allow me to repeat it again.... "You do know, that if you type the word you dont know into google, it will auto correct spelling and point you to several online dictionaries, dont you?"

Now are you telling me that you did that and couldnt find it or you didnt do it and you are waiting for me to spoon feed you the results?
 
The word posted was EUTHENIC [which oh by the way is not a word in the english language]. NOT A WORD. What that saying about arguing with an idiot .
End of discussion.
 
(quoted from post at 14:27:46 09/29/13) Since you have insulted me... SNIP

I didnt insult you, you insulted yourself. You attacked gmccool over a word. Thats D!CK move and I understand that but you went all in and stated the word in not in the dictionary. It is. Different meaning, of course, but its still there. I just threw it back at you.

Then you go all in in a futile attempt at saving some of your diginity. Sorry.... FAIL. Leave the guy alone, he misspelled a word. A word NOBODY with 2 brain cells to rub together would EVER fail to understand given the context of what was said.

Now, would you like to continue with this?
 
(quoted from post at 14:15:16 09/29/13) The problem with a "swing out door" is that it can be pryed open with a crowbar.

Many years ago on a TV show I saw a special deadbolt that went the entire width of the door with a latch in the center. And the latch would engage this large long deadbolt in and out of a set of U brackets. The long deadbolt ran from the hinge side to the open side of the door.
I have never seen these for sale anywhere.

It sounds like you want not only a commercial quality door, but one that is far higher security than anything that is standard even on the commercial level. There is nothing wrong with that mind you, its just it limits your options because its rare. Rare equals not alot of people sell what you are looking for.

What you want can be built though. As for the pry bar part, it would be very difficult and time consuming to pry an out swinging door open, even using common quality parts. Just try it, it aint easy. Heck, just pulling a concrete filled door frame out (using a chop saw to cut each side) takes a good 20 minutes. You are not going to open the door in less time than that, well I take that back, you can if you have a jaws-of-life. If a bad guy comes with a jaws-of-life and you are not home to stop him, he is in anyway. But thats all unlikely because there are much easier ways into your home, most notibly is just driving a hole in it with a car.

In any case, if you are shooting for a dead bolt that throws both ways in a heavy frame, your best bet would be to custom make one. You can get inspiration from the various survivial websites out there as well as how safes are built with multiple bolts. Some of survival guys build cobbled up messes but there are some real builders out there as well. Here is one website I have seen some cool things, Im sure there are others. http://www.survivalistboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=120
 
I was just typing in what I found when I looked up the [non] word. Not trying to annoy you in any way. I'm guessing you meant ethnic. I thought everyone has some ethnic background so you meant soemthing else anyway because in any on- line dictionary it was not a word . Sorry if I insulted you in any way. I try to be helpful and give info not annoy people.
 
Euthenics / j uː ˈ θ ɛ n ˈ ɪ k s / is the study of the improvement of human functioning and well-being by improvement of living conditions.

Not sure how this term can apply to a group of individuals in your neighborhood, unless you live in a scientific or missionary enclave. Is the Peace Corps operating in your neighborhood?
 
Out-swing doors have hinge pins on the outside. Pretty easy matter to punch out the pins and remove the door. Doh!
 
Rich,

Using inductive reasoning I was able to determine that I probably have more than two brain cells to rub together (the autonomic nervous system cannot function with two or fewer brain cells; my autonomic nervous system seems to be functioning; therefore I probably have more than two brain cells to rub together), and yet I was puzzled by what word gmcool had in mind when he wrote "euthenic", and that was primarily because of the context. I thought of "ethnic", but even though the spelling was a stretch, the word ethnic made almost no sense in that sentence. Giving the man credit for knowing what he was talking about, I decided that he was using a word I was unfamiliar with, and that it made sense in that context, and that if I had known what it meant I would have understood what he was saying.

I suggest that instead of "two brain cells to rub together" being the benchmark for understanding, you should have said "a word which any idiot would understand..." It would be just as strong, and I could immediately agree with it.

Stan
 
(quoted from post at 20:41:41 09/29/13) Out-swing doors have hinge pins on the outside. Pretty easy matter to punch out the pins and remove the door. Doh!

Thats a common misconception but not really true. Its true if you just grab some el-cheapo hinges off the shelf at Menards. Wile E is looking higher end than that, commercial hinges have various systems to make the hinges "tamper proof". The most common is a set screw that goes in from the side of the hinge and holds the pin down (the pin has a groove so the set screw can go in deeper, preventing the pin from being lifted). This set screw is only accessable when you open the door, once you close the door its hidden. Here is a picture of a modestly priced hinge with a set screw visable.

stainless_steel_ball_bearing_hinge%204x4%20square%20.jpg


Another thing to remember, on higher end hinges, they are ball bearing and usually have a swaged cap on the bottom, rather than the pin going all the way to the bottom like in your house (you can see it in the picture above). In your house, you take a screw driver, tap the bottom of the pin up, then the top has some space so you finish tapping it up there. On a commercial hinge, there is a blind cap with knurling on it that is pressed in or welded on. This prevents tapping the pin up and out (in addition to the set screw).

Another little trick I was taught to thwart the vandals and thieves was to surrender the pin.... at least part of it. Cut the pin into sections and drive them in from the top, leaving the top part of the pin that can be removed but the bottom pieces are trapped in the hinge. Good luck getting that hinge apart... the sun will be up before the bad guys figure that one out.

Piano hinges pretty much eliminate worrying about pin removal and they add peace of mind if you are worried about the hinges simply being cut off with a chop saw. They are not chop saw proof but instead of 3 hinges that are 5 inches high, you have a solid hinge that is the height of the door. But if a criminal brings a chop saw, they are getting in toot sweet anyway....

Also, lets not forget, with a custom door you get custom installation. With that comes such features like bolts on a safe. Easily made (even by a homeowner if they do the install) and very effective. Simply putting a few pins through the hinge side of the door to act as bolts like on a safe door, makes the door all but impossible to remove from the outside. Here is a webpage that talks about it, but I have never seen anybody make the pins with nails like was talked about, always heavy round stock. http://ourlocksmith.net/how-to-secure-out-swinging-door/

Remember, every roadblock you can think up can be defeated by a well motivated criminal. The best you can do it buy yourself time. Criminals are typically lazy and scared, they want the easy score. Protect your house with visable and invisable protections and the criminals are likely to pass you by. If they try, they find you have hardened your home and they give up. Like I said above, you cant prevent everything but you can hedge your bets. It dont pay to put $10,000 into protecting your front door because a criminal will just bump your garage door with a car and crawl in. But there are reasonably priced ways to get pretty good protection, all you need to do is plan a little.
 
Talk to RB. The next time he demo's a bank, get the door to the safe. Just realize that you'll have to re-engineer your entire house to be able to support the door. If a thief wants in bad enough, they'll get in. Doesn't have to be through the front door or any door for that matter.
 
a good roll-up door works good , a full size body target solved my sisters problems ,we put 5 rounds in the kill zone with a 357. put her name on the line and and that the gun was a .50 s/w at 50 yards , some of her friends won't come knocking with out calling first
 
(quoted from post at 21:41:41 09/29/13) Out-swing doors have hinge pins on the outside. Pretty easy matter to punch out the pins and remove the door. Doh!

I have an out-swinging door on my shop. The hinge pins are on the outside but they are not re-moveable. It looks like the pins are riveted over on each end. I imagine the hinges could be cut off but like has been mentioned before, those things will only slow someone down if they really want to get in.

The first time I was broken into the door frame was broken out around the dead bolt. I repaired it with a steel plate. The next time they destroyed the door. If they want to get in they will find a way.
 
Some crooks have cut through wood framed garage walls next to a door rather than mess with with a security door.
 
It must be frustrating trying to communicate after you've had a stroke. Keep working at it, your language skills will come back in time. God bless.

Stan
 
Windows are easier than cutting through a wall.

It's harder to kick a door in if the door swings outward.

People need to see just how easy it is to break off a dead bolt.

The only thing any security door do is give you a warm and fuzzy feeling.

A pitbull on the other side of the door work best.
 
Interesting how a simple question can get hijacked.

Anyway, they do make all-steel doors, you just have to go to a place that sells them, probably a place that specializes in doors. They're commonly used in steel and in concrete buildings.

Even with a steel-framed door, if it's not installed properly it can be easily kicked in. The weak point, even with a wood door, is the attachment of the door hinges and deadbolt strikers to the studs. It's important to use long, heavy screws for the hinges and deadbolt; there are usually a couple supplied with the door and couple with the lockset. These screws need to go all the way through the door frame and well into the stud. If the rough framing is oversize, shim it with a board so the screws have more material to grab. You shouldn't rely on the door frame itself, because it's only as strong as its attachment to the house.
 

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