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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: enviromental concerns ?

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MarkB_MI

09-25-2013 18:09:09
75.219.82.5



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Please clarify: What part of global warming do you not believe?

Do you not believe that the earth's temperature has been rising since the beginning of the industrial revolution, and that rise has accelerated in recent years? Sorry, but the temperature rise is well documented from a variety of sources, everything from observations made by British naval vessels to modern meteorological observations. And those observations are backed up by other evidence, such as the shrinking polar ice caps, rising sea level and receding glaciers. http://climate.nasa.gov/interactives/warming_world

Now it could just be coincidental that nine out to the ten hottest years ever recorded are in the past fifteen years. Or maybe not.

Or do you disagree that carbon dioxide levels are rising? That's something that hasn't been monitored for nearly as long as temperature, but CO2 levels have been monitored on Mauna Loa since the late 1950s and during that time CO2 in the atmosphere has grown at an alarming rate. http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

Now if you dispute whether or not these two trends are connected, we can talk. If you want to dispute whether global warming and CO2 levels are man-made, we can talk. If you don't believe the dire predictions made about the long-term effects of global warming, that's something we can discuss as well. But if you're unwilling to accept these two basic facts, then there's really nothing to discuss, because you're in complete denial.

For what it's worth, you don't need to worry whether it's real, because you'll be dead long before the long-term effects really hit home. It will be our grandchildren's problem. Sucks to be them, doesn't it?

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Wile E

09-26-2013 13:16:17
24.180.182.39



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to MarkB_MI, 09-25-2013 18:09:09  
Wow you are an expert in this subject.

I still cannot worry about global climate change, hotter temps, colder temps, whatever. I cannot do anything about it or do I really care.

Now with that said I need to run my tractor.



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MarkB_MI

09-27-2013 02:01:35
75.219.107.89



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to Wile E, 09-26-2013 13:16:17  
No, I'm no expert. But I'm willing to trust the knowledge of those who work in the field. If my doctor tells me I have a tumor, I'm not going to call into an AM talk radio show to get a second opinion.

I'll note for the record you did not answer my question. Perhaps you don't actually know what it is you believe.



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Cas

09-26-2013 10:46:49
74.67.165.216



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to MarkB_MI, 09-25-2013 18:09:09  
I do not think the results of 2 published articles is enough evidence to confirm your position. When you can publish 15 to 25 studies, then maybe you can come to a rational conclusion.
A wider base of data might either confirm or deny the hypothesis.



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MarkB_MI

09-27-2013 01:57:38
75.219.107.89



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to Cas, 09-26-2013 10:46:49  
Cas, did you even bother to click on the two links I provided? Your mind is made up; I could post a hundred links and you would still be unconvinced.



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Ultradog MN

09-26-2013 03:13:06
174.20.244.110



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to MarkB_MI, 09-25-2013 18:09:09  
I can always count on you to be on the goofy side of any issue.



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MarkB_MI

09-26-2013 03:24:47
75.219.107.89



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to Ultradog MN, 09-26-2013 03:13:06  
UD, if by "goofy" you mean "fact-based", yes that would be me.



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Dean

09-25-2013 18:16:05
152.216.3.5



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to MarkB_MI, 09-25-2013 18:09:09  
Actually, I believe that the long term trend in global temperatures has been upward since the beginning of the end of the last ice age. There are, of course, shorter term cycles on the longer term trend(s).

I also believe that there have been countless periods in Earth's past when global temperatures have been higher than now.

I further believe that mankind has far more to fear from the inevitable next ice age than any man-caused global warming that some people believe is possible.

Dean

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JD Seller

09-25-2013 20:34:02
208.126.196.144



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to Dean, 09-25-2013 18:16:05  
Mark I will argue with the data they are throwing about as "FACTS". They have cooked the books to get the fact to match what they want. The simple FACT is that it has been hotter in the past. The "ten hottest years ever recorded" is only looking at about 100 years of records.

Read the history of Greenland. It was much warmer there when the Vikings settled it. They farmed ground there.

I can also remember them SCREAMING at me in the 1970s that the cool years then meant that we where heading into another ICE AGE.

I do think that the whole thing is greed driven by the Greeny weenies that make money off of screaming that the world is going to end. Good old Al Gore is the biggest example of that.

Also the "tree ring" data has been proven false. The researcher had to exclude many sites because they made his numbers not get hotter like he want them to.

You can not look at such short periods of time and predict what is going on. They can't even predict the weather 3 weeks from now but they want us to believe them on Global Warming. It all is a joke that is making many people MILLIONS of dollars while costing the average working stiff money.

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MarkB_MI

09-26-2013 02:26:30
75.219.82.5



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to JD Seller, 09-25-2013 20:34:02  
JD, who is this "they" to whom you refer? NASA, the folks who got a man on the moon? Or NOAA? What motivation do they have to "cook the books"? Fact is, even those few climatologists who dispute the dangers of global warming don't disagree with the basic observations that CO2 levels and temperatures are rising.

You might want to check into who is the "they" on the other side of this issue. Who funds the various climate change skeptics? We can start with the Koch brothers, whose fortunes came and continue to come from coal production. Don't you think the Kochs have a lot more to lose than NASA and NOAA? By the way, even the Kochs are having problems with their paid hacks jumping ship; see the link below.

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Brad Buchanan

09-26-2013 09:37:51
74.71.185.165



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to MarkB_MI, 09-26-2013 02:26:30  
Well now, I think most of the sources you refer to are government agencies.

You don't think that some of the 'facts' might be rearranged to suit political agendas?

The stated goal of NASA a few years ago was to 'highlight' muslim science achievements.

The IRS has been used to target political opponents recently.

The EPA has been used to target business i.e. the coal industry.

The NSA seems to do wonderful work spying on US citizens but misses the ball on catching real terrorists i.e. Boston bomber, Naval base shooting, Fort Hood murders with the shooter yelling allah ackbar (but it was just workplace violence).

Man made global warming is nothing about the environment and all about power and control.

In the 70's the farce was global cooling caused by the same so-called causes.

You should update your talking points as the polar ice caps have increased by 60%, closing the northwest passage to shipping.


brad

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MarkB_MI

09-27-2013 02:22:29
75.219.107.89



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 Re: enviromental concerns ? in reply to Brad Buchanan, 09-26-2013 09:37:51  
Brad, if you're unwilling to believe NASA and NOAA, then who will you believe? Surely not the Koch brothers' paid hacks. Are you suggesting that the scientists at NASA and NOAA are part of a vast conspiracy that goes back at least to 1958, when CO2 monitoring on Mauna Loa began? Since then we've had ten administrations, six repub and four dem, so both parties are in on the conspiracy.

As for the recent increase in polar ice, that is one data point. It's remarkable only because it bucks the long-term trend of rapid ice loss. While climatologists are trying to understand what it means, global warming deniers are busy touting it as proof of their argument. Why? Because they have so little evidence to support their claims.

As I said before, if you're unwilling to accept even the basic facts (rising temperature and CO2 levels), there's nothing much we can discuss. Much like the drunk standing beside his crashed car saying "What tree, Mister Ossifer?". The cop would like to know WHY he ran into the tree, but the drunk is denying the tree exists, even though it's sitting where the hood of his car used to be.

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