Yesterday's Tractor Co. Affordable Parts, Just in Time
Click Here or call 800-853-2651 
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 
Marketplace
Classified Ads
Photo Ads

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journals
Tractor Town
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
Paint Codes
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Torque Values
3-Point Specs
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Yesterday's Tractors Facebook Page

Related Sites
Tractor Shed
TractorLinks.com
Ford 8N/9N Club
Today's Tractors
Garden Tractors
Classic Trucks
Kountry Life
Enter your email address to receive our newsletter!

subscribe
unsubscribe
  
Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: BD, How does the transfer box with the few breakers work

[Show Entire Topic]  

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author  [Modern View]
JD Seller

07-26-2013 11:01:43
208.126.196.144



Report to Moderator

B&D and John Thanks for your replies. I pretty much under stand how they work now.
I have another question for you. Another person posted a link to a steel sliding breaker block that would make it where you could not have the mains and dedicated generator breaker on at the same time. Would one of these be good enough???
The house in question is on city water and has all gas heat, cooking, and water heater. So we would be just talking about needing lights, frig, and the furnace fan in winter.
I do have a plug and box that has a MALE 220 volt plug mounted in it. ( weatherproof box too) I have not seem one like it around. But I was thinking about wiring it as the supply for the generator. This could be hard wired into a box on the side of the house. Then you would just need a short cord between this and the generator.
With the interlock setup the male ends would never be "hot" Which is why I never have used this box before.
I kind of like the sliding interlock deal in that it would be cheaper but even better you could change what you powered just by flipping different breakers. This way a smaller generator could be used.

Example: You have maybe a 5000 watt generator. You run your light and frig. Then after you go to bed your freezer and the frig.

Just thinking you would have a lot of flex ability with this over the dedicated circuit deal.

We have looked at the automatic systems. They just switch a few circuits. So you are stuck with just those things being powered.
The farm has a automatic system on a stand by Generator that can run everything. It is great but not cheap.
Where we are thinking about this setup having it switch automatically is not needed. If they are not home they do not need the things to switch over by themselves right now. Maybe later but trying to keep the cost down for now.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
jgayman

07-26-2013 13:10:09
67.234.179.69



Report to Moderator
 Re: BD, How does the transfer box with the few breakers work in reply to JD Seller, 07-26-2013 11:01:43  
"Example: You have maybe a 5000 watt generator. You run your light and frig. Then after you go to bed your freezer and the frig.

Just thinking you would have a lot of flex ability with this over the dedicated circuit deal."

PMFJI again... :-) This was my thinking EXACTLY. I have a 6500 watt generator and have no problem running lights, TV, fridge, freezer, UPS, computers, furnace. Basically everything except the hot water heater. In a crisis situation, I could flip the breakers for the other circuits and bring on the water heater by itself to get hot water.

I initially looked into the standard transfer box arrangement and they seemed like a bit of a nightmare to get installed and then of course you are limited to the circuits you pre-wire.

With the interlock, I flip the main the generator breakers and whaamo, the whole house has electricity.

I have been wanting to get a generator for years and kept putting it off. The compelling event was the big October storm a couple years ago where we were dark for 3+ days. I figured I would install the generator and then never need it again.

Funny thing is I have over 40 hours on the generator in just 2 years. We seem to have lot of 3-4 hour outages on clear blue sky days.

It certainly gives a lot of piece of mind on a cold winter night knowing that if the power goes out I can still keep things warm.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jgayman

07-26-2013 13:03:22
67.234.179.69



Report to Moderator
 Re: BD, How does the transfer box with the few breakers work in reply to JD Seller, 07-26-2013 11:01:43  
"I have another question for you. Another person posted a link to a steel sliding breaker block that would make it where you could not have the mains and dedicated generator breaker on at the same time. Would one of these be good enough??? "

PMFJI... prior to having my interlock installed I had an electrician check it out and he confirmed that it met all required codes for attachment of an emergency generator.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John T

07-26-2013 12:03:34
216.249.76.176



Report to Moderator
 Re: BD, How does the transfer box with the few breakers work in reply to JD Seller, 07-26-2013 11:01:43  
My friend and retired electrician the Dusty Man posted a link about them below and I know Glen has spoke well of them before I DONT HAVE ANY HEARTBURN WITH THEM but ya gotta realize its for using a branch circuit breaker in the main panelboard to backfeed the gensets output into your exisiting main box, WORKS FINE but not the flexibility nor the Cadillac method......Its something a tightwad like myself would do lol

Sure, cord and plugs and receptacles can indeed work fine, as you already state you're well aware of potential hazards and would avoid exposed energized male plugs (that almost sounds obscene lol this may get poofed JD) If the hot connectors can be the females and the non energized the male ends Id have less heartburn!!

Based on your fine posts and the info they provide, heres a sumamry of what I envision you have/need.........

1) A 120/240 genset settin somewhere that has had its Neutral to Frame Bond severed (maybe never even had that set up, i.e. Neutral was floating as Glen says???)

2) Its output has 4 wires, 2 Hots, Neutral (floating), Equipment Ground tied to case/frame.

3) Plugs n cords n receptacles (hope wired as above) with the 2 hots wired to a branch breaker in the main panel WITH AN INTERLOCK DISCUSSED ABOVE

4) The panels Equipment GroundING Conductor (bare/green) goes out via the cords to the gennys case/frame

5) The gennys Neutral wires to the panels Neutral Buss

THIS IS A 2 POLE TRANSFER SWITCH AND THE GENNY IS NOTTTTTTTT CONFIGURED AS A SEPERATELY DERIVED SOURCE It has a floating Neutral NOT bonded to case/frame yet its case/frame DOES NEED TIED TO THE BARE/GREEN EQUIPMENT GROUNDING CONDUCTOR

JD, go to the head of the class, depsite my earlier frustrations, I THINK YOURE GETTIN THIS Id never call you Billy Bob lol lol

PS my friend Glen isnt a fan of plugs n cords, he and I may feud over this set up lol

Feelin better now, think I have helped at least one person undersand all my rants n raves

John T

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JD Seller

07-26-2013 12:36:38
208.126.196.144



Report to Moderator
 Re: BD, How does the transfer box with the few breakers work in reply to John T, 07-26-2013 12:03:34  
JohnT your are correct in that cost is an issue in this application. This is on the youngest son's house. So he has two kids and money is limited right now. Also the house in question is older and very well could be replaced not far down the road. So do not want to go hog wild to only have to redo it in a few years down the road.

I will enact the "Don't ask and do not tell" rule on how he has been doing it. LOL

This is why I wanted an economical way to correct his current way of doing it. Plus I have an extra 7500 watt gas generator that has electric start. It is one out of a RV so it does not have any wheels or anything. So it is just setting not being used. So I am thinking a little enclosure for weather protection plus a box and switch interlock set up, his wife could make it work safely if he was not home.

Thinking a small metal box/shed 20-30 feet away from the house. A good heavy cord hard wired to the generator. So all you would need to do would be open the enclosure. Hook the cord to the house box. Start the generator. Then go to the main breaker box and flip the main off and the generator breaker on. Interlock to make sure you do it correctly. Flip off all the breakers you don't need and you should be good to go.

I think it would be a cheap but safe setup and is what I am trying to help him get.

PS the generator is setup for propane. So Away from the house would allow me to tie it into the propane tank much easier.

OK guys pick this apart so I can see what I need to change. LOL

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John T

07-26-2013 15:13:31
216.249.76.176



Report to Moderator
 Re: BD, How does the transfer box with the few breakers work in reply to JD Seller, 07-26-2013 12:36:38  
NOPE, NO NIT PICKING, sounds like a reasonable cost effective method to me JD. A few thoughts:

Since its a 7500 instead of a 4000 and out of an RV my best "guess" is its indeed 120/240 volt which is great as the smaller RV gensets are only 120 volt. Smaller RV's use a 120 volt 30 amp (2 pole 3 wire grounding) plug, while the big boys with 2 roof AC's use a 240 volt 50 amp (3 pole 4 wire grounding) plug that has both Hots, Neutral and Ground. One AC works on one 120 VAC leg, other AC the other.

Sorry, I just dont know if it has its Neutral floating or not (i.e. it has a connection to the case frame), but since youre only using a two pole (2 pole backfeed breaker) transfer method, the gennys Neutral needs to be unattached from its case/frame and then when you get to the house panel it, of course, wires to the panels Neutral Buss. The Equipment GroundING Conductor (bare/green) runs out of the panel and wires to the gennys case/frame.

Be sure the enclosure is ventilated enough for that air cooled genset. Many of those RV gensets already have a fan on one end which vents to the outside so Im sure you can get that figured out

GO FOR IT I SAY

John T

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Show Entire Topic]     [Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:

TRACTOR   PARTS TRACTOR   MANUALS
Same-Day Shipping! Most of our stocked parts ship the same day you order (M-F).  Expedited shipping available, just call!  Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors.  Compare our super low shipping rates!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor.  We are a Company you can trust and have generous return policies!   Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ More Info ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2014 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters