electrical question

JOB

Member
I know this has been on here before somewhere but I doubt I could find it.

In a new panel is the neutral bar and ground bar connected?

In the 1950's panels where you did not have a ground bar, how would you run a ground wire,or what would you ground to? Can you ground?
 
I would say no but check your local code. I needed more breaker space so I put in a new sub box and was told not to connect them.
 
The short answer is the neutral and ground are normally connected in exactly one place: at the main disconnect, which is usually close to the meter. Most main panels have a screw or jumper so you can easily tie the ground and neutral together. What you don't want to do is to create a ground loop, where ground and neutral are connected together at multiple places some distance apart. So if you're adding a subpanel to an existing main panel, don't bond the ground and neutral, but confirm they're properly grounded at the main.

As for what they did in the fifties, that was before my time. Ole John T can probably answer, I think he passed his PE back in '53.

General rule of thumb: never assume existing house wiring was done correctly. When in doubt, check with the code or a licensed electrician.
 
You were told RIGHT. At a sub panel fed off the Main the Neutral Buss and Equipment Ground Busses (UNLIKE at the Main) are kept seperate and electrically isolated.....

John T
 
Yeppers your question has been discussed and cussed on here many many times in the 15 + years I've been lurking here, but it remains in my opinion a good legitimate very reasonable question, so here are my professional although "rusty" (been retired from AC Power Distribution EE practice 20+ years) comments:

WARNING AND DISCLAIMER when in doubt consult with local authority and utility providers and local competent trained Electricians and Engineers versus lay Billy Bob or even professional (including mine) opinions posted here. Electricity can be dangerous to your home or life so use care!!!!!!!

YOUR QUESTION: In a new panel is the neutral bar and ground bar connected?

ANSWER YES (if its the Main service entrance
panel)
AND NO (if a sub panel fed from the Main)


ONLY at the main service is the Neutral Buss connected to the Equipment Ground Buss. In laymens terms, if your house has a typical main breaker equipped service entrance panelboard YES the Neutral and Ground Busses (if it indeed has two separate busses) are electrically connected. It would be possible the panel only has one buss to which BOTH the (White) Neutrals (GrounDED Conductors) and the Bare/Green (Equipment GroundING Conductors) are attached which accomplishes the same thing. If the panel has say a Buss on each side and it’s to be used as the main service entrance, there’s a tie bar that bonds the busses together, while if it’s for use as a sub panel, they would NOT be tied. Also the outer metal case/frame of the panel, being a non current carrying conductive enclosure, requires a bond to the Equipment Ground, so there’s a screw through the buss to the case frame that accomplishes that.

EARTH GROUNDING OF THE NEUTRAL (i.e. it’s a GrounDED Conductor unlike the Hot UnGrounDED Conductors)

In all the jurisdictions in which I practiced, the incoming Neutral from the utility was earth Grounded at one of three locations: 1) The weatherhead riser where the incoming Utility Neutral attached to the customers Neutral down to his panel; 2) Inside the Meter Base; 3) Inside the main service entrance Panel. The Neutral is connected to mother earth by means of a GroundING Electrode Conductor (No 4 bare copper wire) that leads to a GroundING Electrode such as a "made electrode" of one or more copper rods driven into mother earth and/or other suitable GroundiNG Electrodes such as buried metallic pipes or structural or foundation steel etc. etc.


YOUR QUESTION

In the 1950's panels where you did not have a ground bar, how would you run a ground wire,or what would you ground to? Can you ground?

In the "old days" if a home was equipped with typical in those days maybe a 60 amp (maybe a 100 amp panel in later years) 120/240 volt single phase three wire service, there were still (same as today) three wires from the utility transformer, 2 Hot UnGrounDED phase conductors L1 & L2, and the Neutral GrounDED Conductor. Those old small panels or fuse boxes only had one buss that the outgoing home branch circuit Neutral conductors were wired to. NOTE the incoming Utility Neutral would still be earth grounded similar to the above. You only ran 2 conductors (Hot and Neutral) to the 120 volt receptacles as they were only two wire devices, 2 pole 2 wire UnGrounDED. There was no provision in the branch circuit (only 2 conductor) wiring or the receptacles (only 2 pole) for the third safety Equipment GroundING conductor as used today.

If you wanted to convert to a modern 3 wire branch circuit (Hot UnGrounDED Conductor,,,,,, Neutral GrounDED Conductor),,,,,,Equipment GroundING Conductor) you would have to run 3 NOT just 2 wires to the receptacles and the receptacles would be two pole three wire GroundING type NOT the old 2 pole receptacles.

The incoming utility Neutral is bonded to mother earth at one of the three locations I described above and at the main service entrance the Neutrals and Equipment Grounds (if so equipped) are effectively bonded, its just that in the old system you didn’t run any third safety ground wire out to any 3 pole receptacles as done today, but if you did, the bare/green Equipment GroundING Conductors would wire to that Neutral Buss in an old panel. Sooooooo you could upgrade an old 2 wire system to a modern 3 wire, its just the Neutrals and Grounds would BOTH attach to that single common Neutral/Ground Buss similar to a modern panel that had only one common Buss where BOTH Neutrals and Equipment Grounds were attached. What makes a modern 3 wire safety grounded circuit different is the use of three conductors (Hot Neutral Ground) to 2 pole 3 wire GroundING type receptacles NOT SO MUCH the main service entrance equipment (old or modern). What matters is that the third safety GroundING Conductor has a return current path back to the panels Neutral (be it one common buss or two that are tied together) FOR FAULT CURRENT RETURN SO THE BREAKER TRIPS.

The Equipment GroundING Conductor provides a separate dedicated low resistance normally NON current carrying path for FAULT CURRENT ONLY, NOT the normal return current carrying like the Neutral provides.......


I’m sure I missed something and if I did I hope the more current still practicing fine electricians here can add to or correct this, were never too old to learn I figure.....So enlighten me pleaseeeeeeee

Ol John T and all
 
John I have sub panels in all my shed/barns. I have the neutral and ground hooked together at each of them but I also have a ground rod at each of them also. These have been inspected by the county inspectors and they never told me that it was wrong.

This has always confused the heck out of me. I really do not under stand the reason for not hooking them together at a sub panel. They are hooked together at the other end at the main. So what is the reasoning for NOT hooking them. In plain English. I tried to read another fellows response on this some months ago. He had me too confused to figure it out. So keep it redneck simple. LOL

I just remembered that there is a sub panel in the upstairs of this house. I do not remember if I hooked them together in it or not. I will have to look at it. I needed more circuits up stairs when we remodeled. So I made all the electric circuits up stairs go to a sub panel that is fed directly from the main panel in the basement.
 
Good question JD, although its hard for me (engineer and attorney) to keep it brief I will try my best lol.......If you have a basic understanding of electriciy this may answer your question, but if not it would take me a lot more words. NOTE before Billy Bob has a calf, this is NOT perfectly detailed and complete and perfect and all 100% correct, its to give a lay person a basic answer only. The whole story and 100% accuracy would take a ton of explaining


The Neutral GrounDED Conductor is a hot live current carrying conductor, thats why its insulated so you dont touch it and it doesnt touch other things which you might touch.......If you touch it you are placing your body in paralell with a live current carrier and maybe theres a path from your hand to the ground or the other hand back to the panels ground etc AND CURRENT THROUGH THE OLD TICKER CAN KILL YOU DEAD.

The Equipment GroundING Conductor is often a bare wire, no harm in touching it, its NOT a hot live current carrier like the insulated Neutral. In fact, its attached to the the outer conductive metal case/frames of tools and kitchen appliances WHICH YOU TOUCH EVEN OUTSIDE ON WET EARTH!!!!!!!! Its ONLY purpose is to return FAULT CURRENT.

You wouldnt strip the insulation off the Neutral and let your grandkids touch it would you?? But you do let your grandkids pick up and touch say a kitchen appliance or one of your tools that are plugged in right???

SO IN A NUTSHELL if you start mixin n matchin or substituting or re bonding Neutrals to equipment Grounds ANY PLACE DOWNSTREAM AND OTHER THEN THE MAIN SERVICE ENTRANCE BOND the equipment Ground then is in paralell with Neutral and becomes a hot live current carrier same as the INSULATED NEUTRAL and when you touch the case of a tool or appliance YOURE TOUCHING THE SAME AS THOSE INSULATED NEUTRALS and placing your body in a possible current path.

That and all the other single point grounding theory and avoidance of ground loops is why you DO NOT re bond Neutral and Equipment Ground busses in sub panels.

AGAIN THIS IS NOTTTTTTTTTT ALL PERFECT AND 100% CORRECT AND NOT THE WHOLE ANSWER but I have to run to town to meet a buddy for lunch and the best I can do for now. Hopefully it gives you a start at least to understand why the Neutrals and Grounds SHOULD NOT BE REBONDED AT SUB PANELS. Neutral is hot insulated live current carrier while ground is a bare conductor intended for fault current ONLY and its atatched to metal frames of things you touch. Do you really wanna mix n match n sub one for the other and let the grandkids touch those hot current carriers barefooted standing on wet ground??? Im NOT saying thats necessarily the case, but given the right set of wrong circumstances (faults, breaks in lines, shorts etc) that can happen and why you SHOULD NOT re bond Neutral and Ground in sub panels

Got it????? I will check back later today, gotta run for now, maybe the other sparkies an add to this but as always BEWARE of untrained Billy Bobs who say its fine if you do!!!

John T
Untitled URL Link
 
JD,
Until recently, as in 2005 or 2008 code, (I don't remember which) pulling two hots and a neutral to a sub panel, bonding the subpanel and installing a grounding electrode was an accepted and code compliant installation as long as the sub panel was in a separate building from the main panel. It has just been in the last few years that code updates have required a separate grounding conductor be pulled and terminated to the main panel. I am not exactly sure why this change was made, but I am sure the code making panel had a reason behind it. I too have several outbuildings fed just like yours on overhead feeds. As I convert to underground feeds, I am adding the grounding conductor to make things compliant with current code.
Hope this helps clear some confusion.
Jess
 
Well past 2008 that was acceptable for ag buildings, and if it was wired that way back then, it is still acceptable now, grandfathered in. So you should pass inspections just fine.

Your troubles start if you want to add on to the wiring now if your county adapts a much newer code - not all places have. You end up needing to go back to your main box now if the local code has changed to the newest code.........

As to why, think about your plumbing.

You have one pipe coming in to your house, the pipes are all joined together at one spot, but one goes through the hot water heater, others don't.

You need to keep the hot water pipes and the cold water pipes separate through the house, if you start interconnecting them here and there you would end up with tepid water, neither hot nor cold, and very unacceptable. Even tho your pipes are connected all together at one place, the hot and cold stays separate exactly because you never connect those pipes more than the one location.

Same with the wiring. They found out, when you interconnect the bare ground and the neutral several times over, it kinda defeats the whole point of the bare ground wire, any flaws in the wiring the bare ground is supposed to catch become all mixed up in circular loops between the bare and neutral wires, creating 'tepid' situations that we really don't want.

This doesn't properly explain the electrical deal I know, but maybe it makes it easier to understand the concept of only one connection working best?

Paul
 
Samuels, as to your statement:

"I am not exactly sure why this change was made, but I am sure the code making panel had a reason behind it"

My response is EXACTLY. When I was a design engineer we were required to attend NEC seminars, and some of the gentlemen who taught them were on the NEC panels and explained the process. The group that makes up the NEC is NOT just one man but a panel of the finest experts in the business and believe me when a change is made its ONLY AFTER numerous experts and evidence and study and thorough review have proven its absolutely necessary. Many changes have come about because someone was killed or a building was destroyed and there was a thorough investigation.

The reasons for single point Grounding and NOT mixing and matching and substituting Grounds for Neutrals and Vice Versa and NOT rebonding Neutral to ground at sub panels has to do with the fact the equipment GroundING Conductor is to carry ONLY fault current while the Neutral is intended ONLY for carrying normal return current. Once you start paralelling them they can carry each others current and the outer metal shells of appliances (given the right set of wrong circumstances such as shorts or opens or other faults etc.) which is designed for connection to the Ground Buss can be compromised......

See my answer to JD below for a bit more, but this is too much to cover here what can take books to fully comprehend, and Ive learned enough to trust the NEC experts over the untrained Billy Bobs of the world if it means my life may be at risk

As always yall are free to do as you please, dont take my word for anything, its your life at risk not mine.

John T
 
Because a rod driven into soil, in a fault situation ,with no path for the fault to travel back to the panel the feed is from ,can't always operate the breaker. Now the circuit dumps amerage into the soil in the out building area. This can possibly kill a child playing on the soil or a dog laying there. I can't say I can remember an NEC where it was okay to only have a ground rod . The soil is not a grounding path and a ground rod is only supplemental according to the code. There is an article number which states soil can't be the only path and it is quite an older article [ although I don't have the article number].
 
(quoted from post at 15:53:33 07/24/13) Because a rod driven into soil, in a fault situation ,with no path for the fault to travel back to the panel the feed is from ,can't always operate the breaker. Now the circuit dumps amerage into the soil in the out building area. This can possibly kill a child playing on the soil or a dog laying there. I can't say I can remember an NEC where it was okay to only have a ground rod . [/b][/b]The soil is not a grounding path and a ground rod is only supplemental according to the code. There is an article number which states soil can't be the only path and it is quite an older article [ although I don't have the article number].

Sportster,

Your recollection made me curious of my own recollection, or possible lack thereof, so when I got home I dug out my old 2002 NEC...
Here is what I came up with in Article250.32(B)2 Covering [b:03ac4db335]"Two or more buildings or structures supplied from a common service"[/b:03ac4db335]
[b:03ac4db335](2)Grounded Conductor[/b:03ac4db335]. Where (1) an equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the building or strucrue, (2) there are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in both buildings or structures involved, and (3) ground-fault procetion of equipment has no been installed on the common ac service, the grounded circuit conductor run with the supply to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s) and shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded. The size fo the grounded conductor shall not be smaller than the larger of (1) That required by 220.00 (2)That required by 250.122

I couldn't find my 2005 code book to see if that paragraph was still worded that way then, but in the 2008 NEC that same paragraph was reworded and highlighted indicating a change had been made in that code cycle.

Also in 2002 NEC in 250.4(A)5 is the statement that "The earth shall not be used as the sole equipment grounding conductor or ground-fault current path (exactly as you remember per your post)

Clear as River-bottom mud right? lol :D
Thanks for stimulating my brain for the day!
Work safe!

Jess
 
250.4 [A] [5] Electrical raceways,cables,enclosures equipment and other conductive material likely to become energized must be installed in a manner that creates a low -impedance path to facilitate the operation of the circuit overcurrent device or ground detector for high impedance systems Earth not an effective ground path Danger earth does not clear a ground fault. Grounding metal parts to earth does not assist in removing dangerous voltage from ground faults. Bonding electrically conductive materials to each other and to the SUPPLY SOURCE establishes an effective ground fault path.To quickly remove fault current ground path must have low impedence. NOTE comments not in NEC are by Joseph McPartland . I was taught all grounding is to be "targeted: to the main panel. myself.No rods at other buildings. Sorry for any typos too tired to proof read.
 
Sportster,
Sorry if I came across wrong. Not trying to start an argument as I fully agree with everything you said! I was simply pointing out that JD's situation was likely a code compliant install at the time it was done. I was also taught that all grounding should be to a "bullseye" at the first disconnecting means. The NEC seems to be adapting old rules to state that as well. I also agree that improper grounding can be very dangerous! Obviously, you and I have a much better understanding of the NEC than most non-elecricians. I was just trying to give an explanation to those less familiar with it. Hope I didn't offend as that was not my intent!
Jess
 
Thanks John T you explained it so even I could understand what you were saying. What I have is an old house next door that I use as a shop, sort of. That is were the old 60 amp panel is at. My brother Billy Bob has done a lot of re-wiring over there and it is a mess. I am wanting to wire up a temporary receptacle for a plasma cutter and wanted to make sure it was grounded.
I have another question if you don't mind. Years ago I added a sub panel to the house main panel which is in my garage. It is connected with conduit to the main. Does that panel come with the neutral and ground connecting bar un-connected or was I supposed to break the connection?
 
Thanks You and John T. gave me some good advice. I did not know what a grounding loop was till you explained it. I need to check my sub panel unless they come with un-connected neutral and ground bars.
 
From some of the discussions below, it appears some people still just dont understand (and likely NEVER will) the reasons for and differences between MOTHER EARTH GROUND and SAFETY EQUIPMENT GROUND.

Out at the Utility HV Primary and LV Secondary the NEUTRALS (A GrounDED Conductor) is connected to a huge copper wire leading down the pole to a "made" grounding Electrode, thats the common low voltage mother earth reference.

At the homes Service Entrance (often Weatherhead or Meter base or Panel) the LV Secondary Neutral GrounDED Conductor IS AGAIN WIRED TO A GROUNDING ELECTRODE CONDUCTOR THAT IS WIRED TO A GROUNDING ELECTRODE ("made" ones such as driven into earth rod or rods or other approved GroundING Electrodes)

NOW WE HAVE THE SYSTEM EARTH GROUNDED that helps with surges and electrical spikes and lightning and stray current and keeping the entire system at a common mother earth reference!!!!!!!! Get it???????????

Now at the main panel the Equipment Ground Buss and Neutral Buss are bonded together (and yes that Neutral has a tie to mother earth and its tied to the equipment Ground Buss)

EVERY BUILDINGS ELECTRICAL SERVICE (a few minor exceptions) REQUIRES GROUNDED be it the home or barn or shop etc

When you run say a 120 volt 3 wire (Hot, Neutral, Ground) branch circuit from that panel out to some receptacles THAT THIRD SAFETY EQUIPMENT GroundING CONDUCTOR is there intended to carry ONLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY fault current NOT normal return current which the Neutral GrounDED Conductor is there for.

NOW TRY TO UNDERSTAND THAT SAFETY EQUIPMENT GroundING Conductor is NOT the same as the earth GroundING of the Neutral !!!!!!!!!!! If you were standing barefoot on wet earth and were going to touch an appliance that had the hot wire shorted to its outer case/frame you touched

Just prior to that would you feel safer if

1) That appliance case was attached to a wire leading to a rod drivern in the ground

HINT lol with no safety equipment GroundING Conductor tied to the appliance case THERE WOULDNT BE SUFFICIENT CURRENT FLOW TO TRIP THE BREAKER AND DEENERGIZE THAT HOT CASE youre about to touch, but there could be (depends on earths resistance) sufficient current (say as low as 50 milliamps) to run from your hand to your feet via your ticker to kill you dead) if you touched it YIKES

orrrrrrrrrr

2) The case was attatched to a wire that led back to the panels Equipment Ground Buss (thats also tied to the Neutral Buss)

HINT HMNNNNNNNNNNN that could carry enough fault current in the Equipment GroundiNG Conductor to trip the breaker before you touched it (I kinda like the sound of that before I touched it)

SO MAKE YOUR CHOICE I know mine and what the NEC would say.

DISCLAIMER AND FRUSTRATION GRRRRRRRRRRR

Ive been here like 15+ years and tried my darndest to explain this to the uninformed the untrained and the know it all Billy Bobs here BUT I CONTINUE TO FAIL, I'm not a good enough teacher and communicator and thats frustrating. HOWEVER being an optimist HEY I KEEP TRYING. I have to realize its IMPOSSIBLE for someone who was never formally trained nor experienced nor made this his lifes work to comprehend from a paragraph what may take volumes of books and years of practice to understand BUT STILL IM GONNA TRY MY BEST LOL

Yall take care now, dont take my word for any of this, you just might want to consult local trained competent trained professionals Electricians and Engineers and the NEC before the untrained Billy Bobs when your life is at stake, right??????????

John T Still trying
 
Way back years ago I had the HONOR AND PLEASURE to attend an NEC Seminar taught by Joe McPartland. He and Mike Holt are about as good there was.

PS dont forget every buildings electrical service still requires grounding as I best recall, but its been too long for me grrrrrrrrr

As always, fun sparky chat

John T Toooo long retired EE
 
Thanks for the kind words and your question is a good one often asked.

Heres the deal as brief as I can make it (Engineer and Attorney mind you lol). If you supply a sub panel fed from your main panel, to that sub you carry sufficent Hot UnGrounDED Conductors (2, L1 & L2 for 120/240),,,,,,,,A Neutral GrounDED Conductor,,,,,,,,,An Equipment GroundING Conductor.

At the sub the Neutral Buss and Equipment Ground Buss ARE TO REMAIN SEPARATE AND ISOLATED. Yes that means any tie bar (N to G) is removed HOWEVER the panels metallic case frame, same as any other metallic enclosures, requires a bond to the equipmet ground which may be accomplished by a screw that goes from the ground buss into the frame BUT THATS NOT THE SAME A N TO G TIE BAR MIND YOU

Got it???????

John T
 
John T. I had to re-read your post above and I see where the grounding bar and neutral are not connected on a new sub panel.

My brother Billy Bob added a sub panel to that little house years ago. His sub panel was another 60 amp main service panel of the 1950 variety. From this additional main panel he came off one of the fuses at the bottom and ran a #10 hot and a neutral to one side of a 220 disconnect box. If I wire into this disconnect box with three #10's what would I do with the green wire. Or do I really need it. Or is there a better way,
 
After re-reading John T's reply above I see where a new sub panel has the grounding bar and neutral disconnected.
 
Thats how it was done prior to NEC changes when you only ran 3 wires, 2 Hots and the Neutral, similar to the twisted triplex from the utility to the home. Of course, now you run 4, 2 Hots, Neutral, Ground for 120/240.

John T
 
Yep, stray currents, ground loops and the fact its best if the Equipment GroundING Conductor is dedicated ONLY for fault return current so the Neutral (intended for normal return current) doesnt have to carry it

Hope to see you again this winter in Florida???????

John T
 
Sorry, I'm havin a hard time following what Billy Bob actually did. Having hard time figuring whats a sub and whats a main etc without a picture/diagram...Its okay to feed only 120 volts (Hot and Neutral) out of a main or a sub, but you want to also carry the bare/green Equipment Ground for a 3 wire circuit (Hot, Neutral, Ground). At any sub or sub of a sub the Equipment Gorund would bond to the case/frame BUT NOT THE NEUTRAL. So if theres a bare/green Ground running out to wherever, bond it to the case/frame and also to outgoing loads BUT NOT TO THE NEUTRAL,,,,,,,,,

John T
 
So I can ground the green wire to the panel box. That panel is just fastened to wood and the only connections to the first sub (which is another main panel)is the hot and neutral feeding this box.

It is hard to explain things, a picture is worth a thousand words.
 
Yep, the green wire to the panels case,,,,,,The Neutral NOT ATATCHED TO THE CASE,,,,,,Any outgong branch circuits Green to the case, Neutrals to the Neutral.

John T
 
Oh I was not rying to be argumentive in any way either.Was not ready disagreeing with anyone [ different area diferent interpetations of code frm whoever gives the inspectors seminars etc.] Just getting into code discussions . Usually when Im on this site Im laughing at alot of stuff becuase its funny and not stupid funny. Alot of these things depend on the inspectors and what they want. John T sure does love "sparky chat" too. A licensed code teacher once said you have to read each code article six times . Im thinking this guy is an idiot. Next time Im in the code reading Im thinking he was right. Final word on this is John T post above I'd say Haha.
 
Have to agree, reading it sure reminds me of reading one of my legal statute books grrrrrrrrrrrr I HONESTLY cant say which is worse or harder to understand!!!!!! So many this and that and subject to and exceptions. As you sparkies know the Illustrated Handbooks with all the pictures and illustrations SURE DO HELP. What helps is to understand their precise techy terms and fairly detailed specific definitions. Thats why I spell out and emphasize precise terms such as GroundING Conductors and GrounDED Conductor and UnGrounDED Conductor and GroundING Electrodes etc etc which yall understand but may confue non sparkies BUT I CANT HELP MYSELF the curse of being BOTH an engineer and attorney I reckon grrrrrrrrr

Best wishes, sorry for boring the non sparkies

John T
 
(quoted from post at 14:58:31 07/25/13) Have to agree, reading it sure reminds me of reading one of my legal statute books grrrrrrrrrrrr I HONESTLY cant say which is worse or harder to understand!!!!!! So many this and that and subject to and exceptions. As you sparkies know the Illustrated Handbooks with all the pictures and illustrations SURE DO HELP. What helps is to understand their precise techy terms and fairly detailed specific definitions. Thats why I spell out and emphasize precise terms such as GroundING Conductors and GrounDED Conductor and UnGrounDED Conductor and GroundING Electrodes etc etc which yall understand but may confue non sparkies BUT I CANT HELP MYSELF the curse of being BOTH an engineer and attorney I reckon grrrrrrrrr

Best wishes, sorry for boring the non sparkies

John T

Thanks John for the Grounding and Grounded.
I started my apprenticeship in '68 and until I think in the '90s that the code changed from Neutral and Ground to Grounding and Grounded. Why? I don't know, this old sparkie can't keep it straight in my feeble mind.

Dusty
 
John T after reading all that code as an engineer you said Hey I might as well become a lawyer if I have to read all this legalese anyway.
 

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