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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Shop light placement

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GBCMAN

07-11-2013 05:02:06
184.76.241.155



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Hi
I know that I"ve seen postings on the best type of shop lighting.
But I"m looking for your experience on layout or spacing of lights.
This will be for a 24" x 24" x 8" work space.
The ceiling is open, the walls are studs with tin on outside and only one window. The floor is dark wood. I"m thinking of using 4" florescent light fixtures.
Thanks Ed




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dustycoal

07-12-2013 11:50:18
74.229.201.151



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
You know you got the best lights in your shop when turn your switch on and all the houses along your street turn brown! LOL Never enough lights in the shop.



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GordoSD

07-12-2013 09:16:31
216.106.251.22



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
I installed those 8 ft High output cold weather bulbs in my shop in SD 13 years ago. They are use 8/7/365 and I have replaced three bulbs. And you get a mild sunburn in there if you tske your shirt off. :)



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MarkB_MI

07-12-2013 03:54:32
75.198.88.193



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
I suggest four eight foot T8 fixtures in two rows, each row about four feet away from each side wall. That's a minimum.



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C.R.

07-12-2013 02:49:59
69.95.141.152



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
I have just used two lamp 48 inch flouresent fixtures mounted over the different tools and benchs my table saw has its own light same for the miter saw and grinder,and then more lights over the workbenchs add to that a couple of portible stand lights and you are in buesness



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sflem849

07-11-2013 19:04:26
69.197.84.39



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
Put 4 or 6 on the walls.



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Mark - IN.

07-11-2013 19:00:28
71.201.65.151



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
In my barns I use metal hallide outside lights because can't buy new mercury vapor fixtures anymore, but they work as well. Like mercury vapor, they take a few to get up to speed, but when they do, they really do. Ones nearer each end, ones in the middle splitting the barns into quarters, they all have their own switches because sometimes I need all of the light, and sometimes I don't. I got the idea from a fella that had kind of poor sight that did it in his barn, and my brother is legally blind and can't see much, especially when its darker. Works good. Very good.

Good luck.

Mark

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GUIDO

07-11-2013 17:29:40
71.168.207.90



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
Hello GBCMAN,

All the lights in the shop I worked at were mounted on the WALLS. NO shadows that way, and pretty even illuminations all over the shop.
8' 1500MA fluorescent bulbs. Don't remember the spacing though! They tried the high intensity overhead lights, waste of money. They took them out!

Guido.



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dr sportster

07-11-2013 10:51:44
69.113.81.16



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
The best color for a shop wall is white . It will give back the most whatever you decide. Think about each work bench having its own light. Polished reflectors are what is used to reduce energy costs when retrofitting lighting. If you save enough energy by lowering wattage etc. you will say " hey it's too dark in here". I changed out many warehouses some years back for Con-Ed in NYC and every time after all the lower wattage new reflector lights were installed I would alway think It's too dark in here. I like flourescent and find the high bay lighting annoying to work under. I noticed this in a postal faciltiy that had various lights in different sections. The warm feeling was in the flourescent sections not the HPS and everything else.You got the formula below. White paint will save you money.

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Dusty MI

07-11-2013 09:35:34
76.250.62.134



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I see " used for feet a lot. Has something changed? I thought I learned ' is for foot and " is for inch.

Dusty



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Bob

07-11-2013 09:50:05
64.255.159.192



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to Dusty MI, 07-11-2013 09:35:34  
Dusty, for some reason, this Forum's software often turns a single ' into a "!



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Mark - IN.

07-11-2013 19:11:36
71.201.65.151



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to Bob, 07-11-2013 09:50:05  
I get the same thing the first time that I post where ' is ", so what I do is click the "Preview Your Reply" button that moves it forward to the "Submit Reply" button, but instead of clicking on the "Submit Reply" button where ' is ", I click the "Back Arrow" at the top since I use Windows Internet Explorer, and that brings it back here to this window where you type. Now click "Preview Your Reply" and when you get to the next window again, ' is ', so simply click "Submit Reply" and ' will post as ' from then on. If you clean your cookies like I do before turning off your computer, the next time on you will have to go through the exercise again, but takes about ten seconds, and only have to do it for the first or initial post.

Good luck,

Mark

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Charles (in GA)

07-11-2013 08:59:44
68.184.159.146



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
Hate to argue with someone as experienced and knowledgeable as John T, but 60 or 70 fc per sq/ft is not enough. 100 would be more like it. You have a very dark shop, and you will experience what is known as "cave effect" where the interior roof will be very dark and since it has no ceiling, you don't get any reflected light. Reflected light is good, as it fills in the gaps and provides light from different directions, evening things out.

I have a steel building with the white vinyl backed insulation inside. I used 400 watt Metal Halide lights, but these have polycarbonate reflectors, giving 20% or so uplight, which reflects off the inside of the roof (white vinyl) and it helps alot.

The lighter the floors, ceiling and walls are, the better your lighting will be, as you will get more reflected light. Dark materials absorb light.

Charles

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D beatty

07-11-2013 07:45:48
50.165.15.143



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
I have 9 Halogen fixtures( 6-500w, 1-750w,and 2-300) to light up a 40x60 shop. All light are on separate switch so I can light up only the area that i am working in.I have incandesent lighting over work bench with several drop lights and a 4 foot florecsent light over the lathe. I also have 2 portable 300w fixtures.



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Brad Buchanan

07-11-2013 07:42:06
74.71.185.165



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
Hey Ed.

I have three types of lighting in my shop. High pressure sodium, HID and T-8 fixtures.

In my opinion the 4' T-8 fixtures would be the best bang for the buck.

Available at wally world for under 15 bucks they are efficient and bright. I spaced them at 6' apart length and width and have plenty of light for most jobs. Bulbs are cheap if you buy them by the case.

You can hang them from the included chains or screw through the back.

Good luck,

Brad

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Charles (in GA)

07-11-2013 08:40:50
68.184.159.146



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to Brad Buchanan, 07-11-2013 07:42:06  
Most of the cheaper light fixtures that come with hanging chains and cord and plug, are not designed to be hard mounted to a surface. They require spacing for cooling. Instructions probably say this somewhere, I know that similar chain hung lights from Lowes and HD do say that the chain must be use and to not hard mount.

Charles



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Brad Buchanan

07-11-2013 11:52:25
74.71.185.165



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to Charles (in GA), 07-11-2013 08:40:50  
It would be hard to imagine how an open air 76 watt fixture with an electronic ballast could overheat but I guess anything is possible with enough imagination.

Brad



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sotxbill

07-11-2013 07:37:39
99.42.196.210



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
go to homedepot and get the 8 footers and never look back.. You will be richly rewarded with the light given for the watts used,, and the bonus is.. you can actually see what your doing.

wife complains work rooms are too bright.



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old

07-11-2013 06:45:01
209.86.226.30



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
I have holgen (sp) lights in my shop. have around 6 300 watt units and that is still not enough light t times. Figure what ever you are going to use if you figure you need 5 install 10 just so you will have more light then needed then to do it the other way around



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John T PS

07-11-2013 06:41:43
216.249.76.176



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
OOps silly me, how many fixtures are needed???

When you look at fixtures and lamps they will tell how many LUMENS they produce (if 2 bulbs and each are 100 lumens, that would be 200 lumens per fixture) ............. Then you decide how many FOOT CANDLES you want at what level off the floor.............. 60 to 70 would be plenty for a shop, we only designed for maybe 100 in an drafting room..........Next use the formula Foot Candles = Lumens x CU (Coefficient of utilization, we used the Zonal cavity Method to compute that) divided by the area in square feet.

With a dark floor and a high dark ceiling Id "guess" the CU may be as low as 40%

THEREFORE Foot candles (say 60) = Lumens x .4 divided by the square feet you want to light. Then all you do is plug in the Lumens the fixtures are rated at and plug in the square feet AND YOU GET HOW MANY LIGHT FIXTURES ARE NEEDED

NOTE its been yearssssssssss since I had to do that so no warranty no way lol

John T

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John T

07-11-2013 06:29:41
216.249.76.176



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
Wayyyyyyyyyyy back when I attended a GE Institute Lighting Seminar in Nela Park Ohio, we learned all about the Coefficient of Utilization and cavity ratios and floor reflectance UGH but I do recall dark floors and high dark ceilings really sucks as far as lighting efficacy. It reallyyyyyyyyy helps if the fixtures have down reflectors so half the light dont just go up and vanish in that dark ceiling cavity. Id look into T8 fixtures WITH REFLECTORS and high efficiency ballasts that are good at low temperatures.

John T

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bill in in

07-11-2013 13:05:15
50.104.221.171



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to John T, 07-11-2013 06:29:41  
I too am a graduate of Nela Park. I just went for the food though.....



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bill in in

07-11-2013 06:22:19
50.104.221.171



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
To do this right you need to know the ceiling cavity ratio, distance to worksurface, reflectance of ceiling-walls-floor, age of the users, cleanliness of the area, the type of work you are doing, and on into ad hominem.

Rule of thumb- hang 6 reflector type 2 lamp T8 fixtures spaced lengthwise- 4 feet from wall and 8 feet apart, crosswise- the same. This should put you into a fair range of at least 40 to 60 fc. Depending on what you are doing you can judge if this is sufficient for your needs. If not repattern and add.

I would suggest the cheapie fixtures at walmart or similar. They are electronic T8 with a full reflector and though they do have a fairly high infant mortality, they stand behind them and it is fairly simple to wire outlets to the ceiling on a switch, so you can move around things as/if necessary....

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David G

07-11-2013 06:21:33
204.29.138.33



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 Re: Shop light placement in reply to GBCMAN, 07-11-2013 05:02:06  
Make sure you put lights in front of where a car would have a hood open. It does no good on top of the roof of the car.



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