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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

For Puddles or any of the welders here.

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caterpillar guy

07-01-2013 18:50:15




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I am welding new side rails on my stepdeck trailer. The rod was 6011 vertical up on the cross members to the side rail. It would sound like it was sizzling in the beginning of the rod and quite down by the end. It welded pretty good for being vertical up. The setting is 60-70amps DC I think reverse polarity 1/8 inch rod size. The rod is probably either Lincoln or maybe Hobart It is what ever the local welding supply carries not TSC or something like that. The side rail seemed to be awful hot by the time the weld was done not by touch but by looks as if the metal was to hot from the weld setting or thickness, for the heat setting. I am going to guess the sizzle was probably the moisture in the flux on the rod. I keep it out in the shed unheated year around. Any help here would be appreciated.

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36 coupe

07-02-2013 05:08:23




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to caterpillar guy, 07-01-2013 18:50:15  
Try 3/32 and move faster.60 70 amps is low for 1/8 rod.



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D7fever

07-02-2013 04:49:09




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to caterpillar guy, 07-01-2013 18:50:15  
6011 is AC rod, use AC it won't sizzle like that.
I use it all the time ,has good penetration, can weld thru paint ,rust, etc. Does work better on AC



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Tom-NoCenTX

07-02-2013 13:23:29




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to D7fever, 07-02-2013 04:49:09  
Upon what did you base your saying "6011 is AC rod"?

Almost everyone I know that builds pipe fences and other general welding uses 6011 1/8 inch rod on DC electrode positive. They do sell an AC version of the 6011, but a normal 6011 rod is for DC.
Tom



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36 coupe

07-04-2013 01:25:35




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to Tom-NoCenTX, 07-02-2013 13:23:29  
Wrong.6010 is a DC rod.



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Keith Molden

07-02-2013 14:00:38




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to Tom-NoCenTX, 07-02-2013 13:23:29  
I based my saying on the numbers for the rod. Google the numbers and you'will see. It is for DC straight or AC NOT DC reverse. At least that's what Lincoln and other manufacturers say. 6010 will do nicely on DC reverse, that's what it's made for. Keith



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Stan in Oly, WA

07-03-2013 22:00:58




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to Keith Molden, 07-02-2013 14:00:38  
Keith,

You're still mistaken. 6011 electrodes are not intended for DC straight polarity. Straight polarity means electrode negative. Almost no electrodes besides 6012 are made to run best on straight polarity (electrode negative). I'm guessing that you think that DC reverse means electrode negative, but it doesn't. Here's the article about it from Lincoln Electric. Read it again.

Stan

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Keith Molden

07-02-2013 04:48:53




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to caterpillar guy, 07-01-2013 18:50:15  
Are you sure you have the right polarity? I believe, and you might want to check, that E-6011 rod is AC or DC straight not reverse polarity. That might be where you're hearing the noise and might be experiencing excessive spatter. Just my thoughts, Keith



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Stan in Oly, WA

07-02-2013 08:34:11




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to Keith Molden, 07-02-2013 04:48:53  
Keith,

The terms "reverse polarity" and "straight polarity" aren't used so much any more, but they're the equivalent of "electrode positive" and "electrode negative", respectively. The only electrode I'm aware of for which the preferred polarity is electrode negative (straight polarity) is 6012, and I almost never hear of anyone using that nowadays.

You're right that 6011 is generally run AC, and that's what it's intended for. Lincoln Electric lists the preferred polarity for their 6011 as AC, DC+, and DC-, in that order. Interestingly, they make one version of 6011 (Fleetweld 180) which appears to run cool. The suggested amperage for 1/8" is 60-120 AC, and 55-110 DC+ and DC-.

Stan

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NCWayne

07-01-2013 22:18:40




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to caterpillar guy, 07-01-2013 18:50:15  
I'm not 100% sure what your asking here, but by nature the bead of a 6011 looks like crap as compared to, sat a 7018. In other words where a 7018 will have a nice rippled appearance, a 6011 will typically have a coarse rippled appearance like it was run too hot. Too a 6011 is a deep penetrating rod that tend to make it seem like your welding 'hotter' than another rod would at a comparable amperage setting. On top of both of those you say you were also welding uphill, on lighter guage material, and if that isn't done just right the edges of the weld would probably be a bit undercut (ie there's a shallow crater along the edge of the bead).

In the end, and I am still guessing here, that the deep penetration characteristics, the 'not so pretty' bead that the rod typically leaves, and possibly a crater left over, are probably the things causing the issue your describing.

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caterpillar guy

07-01-2013 19:49:46




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to caterpillar guy, 07-01-2013 18:50:15  
Stan, The rod is 6011 not 6010. No warpage just seems like the metal is to hot. If I turn the heat up it wants to burn away. Also the rail and cross members are light weight material. You have to look under junior beams for the cross members the side rails are probably about 1/8 inch. So can't get to high on the amperage settings. Did do some the other day at 90 amps seemed to burn away faster. I will get some pictures and check the welder settings for sure tomorrow when I'm out in the shed.

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Stan in Oly, WA

07-01-2013 21:33:19




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to caterpillar guy, 07-01-2013 19:49:46  
Caterpillar guy,

Yes, 6011. I don't know which is worse any more, my memory or my attention span. Anyway, 6011 is very similar to 6010 except that it has some additives in the flux to make it run on AC, which 6010 virtually won't.

It sounds to me like you did it right and it worked. I didn't understand that the materials you were welding were so lightweight. A job like that is usually quite a challenge. Thin material which burns through easily, deep penetration rod, vertical up where the heat (and the chance of burning through the material) increases as you go. I'd say you could just as easily be bragging about a good outcome as wondering whether you did anything wrong.

Stan

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Stan in Oly, WA

07-01-2013 19:36:41




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to caterpillar guy, 07-01-2013 18:50:15  
Hi caterpillar guy,

6010 doesn't need to be kept dry like 7018. In fact, it needs some moisture in the flux, so being kept in an unheated shed is all right. I'm not clear about what you're saying about the heat. 60 to 70 amps DC is pretty cool for 1/8" 6010, although you get some help with the heat when you're welding vertical up, because the heat is building up ahead of the weld more than it would in any other position. If you're saying that the work seemed overheated when you finished welding, I don't know what to tell you. You can't turn the amperage any lower than what you've got it at now. If anything, I would suggest that you turn up the amps and move faster. But metal gets hot when you weld it. If it isn't causing warping or some other problem, I'm not sure you have anything to be concerned about.

Stan

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Stick welding

07-01-2013 22:52:19




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 Re: For Puddles or any of the welders here. in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 07-01-2013 19:36:41  
You never heard it here but on thinner material with 6010/6011 you can use a whipping motion and go downhand and still have a good weld. :wink You can usually keep your heat hotter and just go faster. If you want more strength, clean the first pass off good and put a second pass over the first. Most manual pipeline welding is done downhand. It's also not uncommon to dip 6010 in water because they dried out too much.

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