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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Another Billy Bob electrical question

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Author  [Modern View]
Ultradog MN

06-17-2013 17:44:20




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Mind you I'm still working on my deer stand not on an old folks home or day care center.
I was at Home Despot today and noticed they have 10' sticks of 1/2" cpvc conduit for $1.59 a stick. That got me thinking about some THHN wire I bought at an auction about 15 years ago and haven't used much of it. Most of it is 12 ga - some stranded some solid. 500' rolls.
So if I used two (or 3) strands for the hot and similar for the neutral and also pull a ground through (I'll even tape it green on both ends) would that work to power my hut?
Probably could use less on the neutral couldn't I? Or would you make them the same?
This would get me the 200' I need to go pretty cheaply.
As always thanks for the great advice on these boards.

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JerryBowers

06-18-2013 18:37:00




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
Kind of off the primary topic, but I have never understood folks posting questions on the internet asking about obviously non-code utility installations. I am even more amazed by the number of ". . . sure it will be okay" responses. Does anyone care that they are potentially creating a significant problem for the OP? Guess it is just me, but I don't want to be responsible for causing electrical supply or safety problems nor burning my property or my neighbor's property down. Of course all the "don't worry, be happy" posters will not be there when it is time for an insurance settlement or a pre-sale property inspection.

The OP already pointed out the small incremental cost of 3/4" vs 1/2" conduit. I am currently re-wiring a small water plant where no inspection is required. Even so, all of it is being re-constructed according to code. We are even going with oversize conduits and wiring so we can add service if required in the future. Again, a very small incremental cost when the overall cost of the project is considered, and way cheaper than removing sub-standard work and/or replacing it in the future.

When someone here buys a piece of property using any kind of financing, a pre-sale inspection is required. No inspector that I know will ignore sub-standard utilities. In fact, they require that the sub-standard work either be brought up to code, or be completely removed.

Of course this is the OP's property, so his choices are his choices. Just saying . . .

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Ultradog MN

06-18-2013 19:43:47




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to JerryBowers, 06-18-2013 18:37:00  
Some of us believe that property rights have something to do with it. That those property rights mean we have the right to do more than just pay property taxes and listen to a lot of bureaucrats tell us what we can and can not do with our homes, land, swamps, children, minds and automobiles.
The NEC is a good thing. But it has become more than just an electrical standard for safety purposes. If you have ever stood an electrical inspection - and I have stood a bunch of them - you would know that a lot of the code requirements are rather over the top. They are there to scare people away from doing anything beyond changing a light bulb and thereby insure the employment of licensed electricians.
I had a pretty good hunch that what I was doing was safe but wanted to get a second opinion on that.
I know it is not code. Code only allows 3% drop in voltage whereas I will likely have 4 or 5%.
I plan to use my building maybe 10 days a year.
It is in a remote location where no one is likely to be harmed should something go wrong. I am using resistance heating where that voltage drop isn't so important.
But try to explain that to a bureaucrat who is not allowed to use reason and can only require strict adherance to a formula.
My home and everything in it is up to code.
It had to be to pass all the inspection when I added on a few years ago.
But my deer stand?
Well my deer stand might not pass.
But you know what?
I really don't care. In fact I kind of get a kick out of defying the nanny state once in a while.
It kind of makes me feel free, ya know?
Go ahead and live your life correctly in all regards. According to your lights. You'll get no complaints from me.
But also please understand that not all of us have your same doubts and fears. Some of us go courageously through life - not looking for trouble or harm but confident in our own wits and wherewithal.
Billy Bob

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dr sportster

06-19-2013 09:13:21




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-18-2013 19:43:47  
Let me clue you in a bit about voltage drop. The code has an allowable amount for a reason. When the voltage falls below the needed supply the amperage goes up,when the amperage goes up the voltage drops more . when the voltage drops more, you can guess the next line... The amperage draws even more. One you pass allowable VD [as the engineers call it you will not have a nice circuit . Some bearucrat didn't wake up one day and write the NEC it was started because of the amount of fires occuring. But you paid your taxes ,it's only a tree fort . whatever bro throw in those wires .
Scotch tape 'em to a tree whatever works.We don't need no stinkin code.

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Ultradog MN

06-19-2013 18:27:58




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to dr sportster, 06-19-2013 09:13:21  
DS,
I'm not here to argue with you as you are quite likely correct.
The question I have is this subject seems to have gotten you hot under the collar for some reason.
I'm just wondering why.
Why is it so important to you what I do on my own property? If I scotch tape my wires to a tree how does that affect you?
I'm not talking about polluting it or causing runoff into the river or draining a wetland.
I'm talking about an electrical code violation that can not harm anyone but myself if anything went wrong.
From your handle I assume you ride a motorcycle?
How many motorcyclists are killed each year in America?
Want to lay odds that more motorcyclists are killed than there are by Billy Bob Wiring each year?
How would you like it if they passed more and more restrictive MC laws each year? Till only a
select few could pass the exams and go through the continuing education to ride one.
What would that do to your sense of freedom?
There risks in everything we do man.
We all try to be prudent, lawful and self preserving within the bounds of having a little fun.
We weigh the odds and decide if the risks are worth the fun we're having.
We weigh the laws against our liberty.
I don't own a mororcycle. I think they are too dangerous. I don't think we need a Nationional Mortorcycle Code though. We've got enough laws and codes to follow.
Go weigh the odds. Make your own decision.
Then go have some fun and don't let the safety gurus stop you.
I am thinking about paralleling a couple of wires to heat my deer stand. I asked the questions here so I could weigh the odds.
There are risks involved but I might be willing to run them even if you are not.
How does that affect you any more than your riding affects me?

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buickanddeere

06-21-2013 08:55:17




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-19-2013 18:27:58  
Are you actually being serious or are you "playing us" ?
Jack leg installations or repairs eventually costing everybody with higher insurance and healthcare rates.



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J.Stones

06-21-2013 11:03:31




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to buickanddeere, 06-21-2013 08:55:17  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeYou 'electricians' & 'electric experts' are just big heads trying to protect your jobs that think you are the ONLY ones that can do anything! My garage door opener & light work just fine powered through 18ga copper clad steel telephone wire. You might want to research you beloved NEC on that. But I don't care. Just get her done! Oh, and you can call me all the nasty names you want, as again, I don't care! We already know the facts & simply choose to ignore.

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buickanddeere

06-21-2013 16:00:29




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to J.Stones, 06-21-2013 11:03:31  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see
If you were really good, 20 gauge could have been used.



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dr sportster

06-20-2013 13:05:12




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-19-2013 18:27:58  
With electrical work it is best to do it right or not do it at all. Some questions just seem sorta dumb to an electrician. Can I parallel #12 s is one of them. It doing a type of work that takes some training and knowledge of NEC to do right . Most are from people too cheap to hire an electrician but in no way can do an installation that meets code. How good of an electrical answer are you going to get on an antique tractor forum anyhow?

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Ultradog MN

06-20-2013 13:17:12




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to dr sportster, 06-20-2013 13:05:12  
Two thoughts DS;
Are you implying your answer is also no good because it's on a tractor forum?
And would you suggest that the people below should have hired a qualified person to drive their motorcycles for them?

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dr sportster

06-21-2013 08:43:45




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-20-2013 13:17:12  
Are you kidding me? You think I get out a code book to answer electrical questions. The trick is to make up answers stupider than the questions. I have made up plenty of answers-all wrong !



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John T

06-19-2013 10:03:52




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to dr sportster, 06-19-2013 09:13:21  
Geeeeeeeeeeee Doctor

Youre surely NOT thinking the panel (NOT just one guy mind you) of the countrys finest best trained most experienced electrical EXPERTS just may perhaps maybe know more about electrical safety then Billy Bob and Bubba who had no formal electrical training whatsoever other then wiring their own homes over a case of beer????????? SURELY YOU JEST, IM SHOCKED IM APPALLED

In the many years I used and studied and attended NEC Seminars I came to learn the many logical good engineering reasons why a code Section was adopted was often because a fire took place or someone was killed NOT JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE WOKE UP ONE DAY AND DECIDED TO PASS A LAW

With tongue in cheek to have a lil fun

Ol John T

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JMOR

06-19-2013 09:55:46




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to dr sportster, 06-19-2013 09:13:21  
"When the voltage falls below the needed supply the amperage goes up,when the amperage goes up the voltage drops more . when the voltage drops more, you can guess the next line... The amperage draws even more." True for most all motors, but not for resistive loads, where reduced voltage results in reduced current.



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dr sportster

06-19-2013 10:26:02




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to JMOR, 06-19-2013 09:55:46  
When that occurs the amount of "work " or wattage the circuit can do is also greatly diminshed . Like I said do whatever you want you paid your taxes .



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John T

06-19-2013 09:01:55




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-18-2013 19:43:47  
VERY GOOD STATEMENT

I do my own thing also, being an olddddddddd engineer and attorney and retired debt free with money in the bank and a pension and health insurance I can afford it lol

As you already know I am duty and personal character bound to give the best possible engineering and safety sound answer and then hey its the posters choice, its his money and his life and safety at risk no one elses. I'm like Fox News, I report you decide. Years ago when attending NEC seminars and updates as we were required to do, I learned most code sections were the result of a fire or the loss of a life so a panel of experts devised the best current known method for the safest possible installations. Of course, professional trained engineeers and electricians may have differing opinions and if so theres a means and method to present them to a panel of experts who will study the issue and perhaps make changes BUT THATS NO EASY ROW TO HOE TELL YOU THAT The changes better be based on sound engineering and proven. But if a trained professional or lay person likes to poo poo the NEC its their right, its NOT law generally speaking, communities have the right to adopt some or all of it or use their own like Chicago or none at all. Due to all the training and experience I've had with it, however, (maybe know why the rule is there even if Billy Bob dont understand it, and how it might save a life) I just prefer and choose to recommend it to electrically challenged gents on here or even professional electricians.

Anywho I sometimes tell people here who cant make a decision they might consider THAT MAYBE JUST MAYBEEEEEEEEE the NEC panel of trained experienced experts are wiser then untrained ignorant Billy Bob and Bubba who wired their own homes over a case of beer n by golly it works just fine lol lol Also if ANYONE here, a trained electrician or Billy Bob, have a better safer way to do something BY ALL MEANS TAKE IT TO THE NEC PANEL you may save a life!!!!

Again, for what youre doing a bit of voltage drop (strip resistance heater and a light) doesnt concern me like if I was doing a design for a retail store etc and if there was an accident the store and designer would be in deep doo doo AND KINDA LIKE POSTED BELOW a person has the right (legal perhaps, maybe not Moral) to to someting stupid or unsafe n kill himself or his family I reckon???

For no more then the cost and the safety it brings and since its outdoors ID STILL USE GFCI but again its your free choice

Great great discussion maybe it has helped some here, my thanks to you

John T BSEE, JD

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MarkB_MI

06-19-2013 03:25:21




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-18-2013 19:43:47  
In America, we still have the God-given right to electrocute ourselves, our family members, our tenants and our employees.



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JMOR

06-18-2013 20:21:14




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-18-2013 19:43:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeDaymn! I've read a lot of your postings, some we disagreed, but that is by a long shot, the best you have ever posted! Hurah!



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Ultradog MN

06-18-2013 16:43:05




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
Some great replys!
I checked at HD today and found that 3/4" cpvc conduit is only $.30 more a stick so as per your good advice I'll spend the whopping extra $6 and make it easier to pull the wires.
I also found some 8-2 wg romex on Craigslist so I plan to run that from the panel till I get it out of the house.
If I'm going to be stupid, dangerous and illegal It'll be my rear end that's at risk and not my poor tennants'.
Gonna be great sitting there in my sneakers and a sweatshirt, sipping coffee and listening to the radio instead of freezing my toenails off in an open stand like I've done for the last 47 years. Getting soft I guess.
I'll post some photos of my shack when I get closer to having it done.
Meanwhile, just to keep this tractor (or tool) related here's a pic of a 3 point trencher I built about 10 years ago. I think I will add a small wing on each side of blade to open the trench a little wider. Make it easier to drop the conduit in.
Many thanks to all.
Billy Bob

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Dusty MI

06-19-2013 04:38:15




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-18-2013 16:43:05  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I have plowed in ridge conduit in, screwed in to gather in one long run and hook it behind a plow about like yours and pulled in into the ground. Ditch Witch makes a machine for that.

Why not glue, actually it's a solvent weld, the PVC conduit together and let it set for a day or two, then plow it in. Maybe go through with just the plow first, then pull the conduit in going through the same trench you mad before.

It's a good idea to go over size on the conduit.

Let us know how it works.

Dusty

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dr sportster

06-18-2013 10:45:37




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
You can't make parallel runs with 12 guage wire.Not only a code viollation but stupid.



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JMOR

06-18-2013 12:13:01




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to dr sportster, 06-18-2013 10:45:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see"can't"?? Actually, he can do anything he wants. And I don't know anything about nor can I address a "viollation". :twisted:



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dr sportster

06-18-2013 15:24:04




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to JMOR, 06-18-2013 12:13:01  
Just ignore the electrical code . Do whatever you want . Throw the code away. Have your place all wired up parallel #12s. Good idea. Who cares if the insurance won't pay after the fire.



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JMOR

06-18-2013 16:29:45




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to dr sportster, 06-18-2013 15:24:04  
Hey, doc, why is it 'code' to parallel very large wires such as 1/0, but not smaller wires?



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John T

06-19-2013 15:54:07




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to JMOR, 06-18-2013 16:29:45  
I cant speak for Dr. nor do I have the latest NEC, but at our large industrial military complex the ONLY times we used paralell conductors was for large conductors such as if I recall 4/0 and 250 MCM and larger. Then as mentioned they were exact in length and the paralell lugs n bolts were all torqued the same etc. In smaller conductors we simply used the correct ampacity wiring.

Fun chat John T

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dr sportster

06-19-2013 09:01:24




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to JMOR, 06-18-2013 16:29:45  
Because it is for situations where the conductors are mostly used as feeders to supply larger amounts of current .In smaller conductors it just makes sense to go to the proper size conductors. In a large feeder situation there are limits to what can fit into conduit and still supply the amperage . There commonly is not EMT larger than 4" and space limitations in crowded ceiling and mechanical rooms have limits.Parrallel runs must be kept close to the same length and terminated at the same bus to avoid overheating one set the current is favoring. In smaller circuits what is called for is one set per circuit of correct size wires. How overcomplicated would it get if everyone started paralleling 12s and 10s etc. Junction boxes would be a nightmare.Terminations would have to be equal and when not landing on large bus that would get complicated too.

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Dusty MI

06-18-2013 14:50:01




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to JMOR, 06-18-2013 12:13:01  
If you want to talk about code violations, I believe it's a violation to put the wire in as you go along. Something about the conduit shall be completed before the the wire is pulled in.

But remember this is a Billy Bob job.

Dusty



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soundguy

06-18-2013 09:07:39




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
ud.. do as one of the other posters mention. slide the pipe sections over one at a time instead of pulling the 200'

I needed lighting on my remote farm in an area that was horse safe. i found cheap 20' 1/2" thinwall pvcx with union ends.. and ran that down a fencline a couple hundred feet same as you are doing.. cheap single wires.. doubled up. it worked fine while the barn ws going up. and ran the well. I had the tractor and pto genset as the power source back outta the woods.

as said. runs same #/size for black and white..

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George Marsh

06-18-2013 09:56:46




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to soundguy, 06-18-2013 09:07:39  
soundguy,
My neighbor had a shallow wire burried next to steel fence posts. Lightning blew the wire out of the ground. Wasn't much left of the wire either. It damaged the wire in multiple places too. I think the lightning may have hit a tree and found it's way to the fence.

Another farmer had to put his wire 10ft underground, lightning blowing load centers off the wall.

When I run an undergound wire, I put it at least 3 ft and then run a water line too. Nice to have water next to the barn.

Don't you have to have grounding rods all over the place in Florida?
George

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soundguy

06-18-2013 14:47:21




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to George Marsh, 06-18-2013 09:56:46  
lightning capitol of the world baby!

this line i ran was temp. i just layed it in pip on top of the ground a tthe fence line during barn construction.. then puleld it later. was just to keep the horses and cows out of it.



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David G

06-18-2013 08:32:37




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
I do not think you will want to pull that long through anything less than an inch. PVC has a lot of resistance.



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JMOR

06-18-2013 05:55:42




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
2 x #12 = #9, 3 x #12 = #7



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oliver power

06-18-2013 03:25:34




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
If you decide to use conduit, don"t try pulling wire through 200" of it. Instead, slide the conduit over the wire, one length at a time.



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Hogleg

06-18-2013 04:59:40




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to oliver power, 06-18-2013 03:25:34  
UD,

That is the way I did mine, 400ft of conduit with single strands. Make a rig to let the wire roll off the spools easy, and a joiner (a board with a hole in it attached to something solid) to get the wires to stay close, Wrap the end in tape, then start feeding the wires one conduit at a time on the ground. Feed and glue, repeat 20 times. When done, drop it in the trench. Easy.
You will appreciate the conduit if you ever have to go digging near the wires...

John

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MarkB_MI

06-18-2013 02:32:40




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
Pulling three or four strands of 12 gauge wire through 200 feet of 1/2" CPVC doesn't sound like an easy way to go.

As stated in other posts, the neutral needs to be the same size as the hot conductor. This is true even if you go with four conductors (2 hot, 1 nuetral, 1 ground). That's because it carries the same current if only one leg is in use. (If the current is balanced between the two legs, then there is zero current in the neutral. But that's seldom the case.) Also, the ground is normally the same size as the other conductors to ensure that it can carry enough current to fault the breakers.

By far the simplest solution is UF, sized appropriately. From your earlier post, it seems unlikely you'll pull more than about 15 amps, and it's all resistive load. I think you could get by with AWG 10, fused for 20 amps. If you're thinking of going to AWG 8, consider running four conductors of AWG 10 and use a 240 volt heater; it might be cheaper in the long run. You'll need a subpanel in the hut if you go that route.

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da.bees

06-17-2013 21:04:37




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
You should be ok if all you want is lights,coffee pot,microwave,massage recliner,dorm fridge,big screen,small heat pump,boot drier,chargers for lap top,ipod,wildlife feeder and cell phone. If you get carried away and start dragging a bunch of creature comfort iteme to the blind,you may have to increase wire size or build the blind closer to utility service. I reccomend keeping a flashlight and candles on hand in case of power outage.

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Ultradog MN

06-18-2013 16:44:40




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to da.bees, 06-17-2013 21:04:37  
You forgot the hot tub:)



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Russ from MN

06-17-2013 21:02:51




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
I have a vented gas heater in my deer stand, 12 volt battery, solar charger, an inverter so I can use 110v cfl bulbs. After deer season it goes out on the lake as a fish house.



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Samuels68

06-17-2013 19:26:39




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
While it may in fact work...even if you only used 2 conductors as hot, 2 as neutral and 1 as a ground, pulling 5 wires 200' through pvc will make you wish you had just used the UF cable! PVC is not known for its ease of pulling. On most commercial jobs, we won't run less than 1" underground on any conduit longer than about 50'. I say just use the 10-2 w/ Gnd UF. If you do decide to try it, dump a nice glob of dish soap in the pipe right before you pull the wire to help reduce drag. Good luck! Hope the deer enjoy the fresh coffee!

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George Marsh

06-17-2013 18:40:38




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
Billy Bob,
If you are going with 120v, the current in the power wire is the same as the current in the neutral, so use the same wire, 12g, for each. I've seen ground wire on some old romex wire to be a smaller guage, which I thought wasn't safe. Say 12-2 with ground, ground may be a 14g. Today, all three wires are the same, 12 guage.

Yes, I've run stranded and solid in conduit when running wires underground.

Let's look at the math. $1.59/10 ft. 100 ft is $15.90. 200 ft is $31.80 plus glue, plus fittings. What's the price of 250 ft of 12-2 with ground? If you only have 500 ft, you will need to buy 200 ft of wire for your third wire. SO WHERE IS THE SAVINGS? It can't be that much and I would find no joy pulling 200 ft through conduit.
George

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Ultradog MN

06-17-2013 19:27:53




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to George Marsh, 06-17-2013 18:40:38  
George,
Thanks.
The price of 10-2 wg UF wire is $245 + tax for a 250' roll. The one end of the plastic conduit is expanded so no coupling required. Quite a bit cheaper to do it this way - using the wire I already have.



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George Marsh

06-18-2013 05:40:41




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 19:27:53  
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Price 12-2 w/ ground.

If are you going to dig a shallow trenc by hand, conduit will be better.

I would use 3/4 inch conduit and run 4 wires, 220v. A 220v heater will use 1/2 the current so 12g wouldn't be a problem.

Just do it and see if you like it. I too would use what I have before spending money.
If this wiring is going to be used for a few weeks a year, I would use extension cords, have over 450 ft of 12g cords.
George

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John T

06-17-2013 18:39:26




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
Hey Billy, hey I cant fault you for doin things on a budget, I'm kinda like that myself and try n make do with what parts I have available lol THAT BEING SAID

1) When I was a design engineer, and best I recall NO WARANTY, when I specified individual insulated conductors for use in wet, damp or underground applications I BELIEVE IT WAS THWN and NOT THHN Conductors that were preferred/required. The practicing Electricians will know if thats correct, my memory cells are stale lol

2) The Neutral GrounDED Conductor carries the same current as the Hot phase UnGrounDED Conductor, so you want it to be as big as the hot phase conductor.

3) Its permissible to use buried conduit with internal wiring, Im NOT going to open the can of worms about depth and where it needs concrete encasement and how you need rigid risers when it comes up out of the ground lol

AGAIN yes it can "work" and with only a resistive heater and a light bulb voltage drop isnt so critical. Theres the NEC and UL approved and safer wiring (which I learned and had to practice) and then theres Billy Bobs wiring that can still "work"

If using paralell conductors to increase ampacity and reduce voltage drop, they should be the exact same length and wire type and of course, in the same raceway.

Id still use a GFCI feed and use 3 wires (or paralell runs), Hot Phase UnGrounDED Conductor,,,,Neutral GrounDED Conductor,,,,,,Equipment GroundING Conductor IF YOURE USING 120 VOLT ONLY

In a deer stand you realy need a 400 amp 480Y 277 volt three phase four wire system lol lol

PS one of those cheap t stat controlled 240 volt baseboard strip heaters (or any 240 volt heater) would be a good way to go to reduce current. If you need 120 also then youre back to 4 wires however. Orrrrrrrr maybe 240 volt heater and 240 volt lights (even a couple 120's in series) so you only need 3 wires, 2 Hots, Equipment Ground AND IT DONT PULL THE AMPS AS IF RAN AT 120 so you save on wire and voltage drop !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hang in there, if you use a GFCI feed and reasonable wire size you probably wont wake up dead even if its NOT per the NEC,,,,,,But I still dont like to go on record and advise otherwise grrrrrrrr

John T

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Dusty MI

06-18-2013 03:46:20




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to John T, 06-17-2013 18:39:26  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

John, THWN and THHN is the same wire. If you look at the labeling on the wire, both are there.

Your not the only engineer I've had to explain that to.
:D :D :D
Dusty



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Charles (in GA)

06-18-2013 07:30:44




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Dusty MI, 06-18-2013 03:46:20  
In the past there was wire manufactured that met only one, but not both of the specs. With new wire, I doubt you will see it, but with older wire, like the OP, its possible.

Charles



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jlewis457

06-17-2013 18:35:45




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to Ultradog MN, 06-17-2013 17:44:20  
If all you are going to do is lights and maybe a small coffee pot I cant see what it would hurt to try now if you are going all out with air and electric heat I dont think it would work



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buickanddeere

06-17-2013 20:19:10




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 Re: Another Billy Bob electrical question in reply to jlewis457, 06-17-2013 18:35:45  
Don't run the air and heat at the same time.



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