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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: 48v delco alternator?

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John T

06-03-2013 16:23:12
216.249.76.176



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George, with all due respect, I SAY YES

Wellllllllll lets put our electrical thinking caps on.....

FIRST LETS GET THE TERMINOLOGY CORRECT: In an Alternator, the rotating component through which current is passsed via the slip rings to produce a rotating magnetic field IS CALLED THE ROTOR........The stationary coils of wire into which voltage is induced via a passing magnetic field IS CALLED THE STATOR. The Stators output is AC so its necessary to rectify it in order to produce DC charging voltage.

If you want to increase the output of an Alternator you can 1) Spin it faster or 2) Increase the Rotors magnetic field strength by pumping more current through it (controlling that rotor current is what the regulator does)

So long as the rotor windings will handle the extra current and the I Squared R heat can be sufficiently dissipated, enough current can pass through the rotor to likely yield a rectified loaded outout voltage of 48 VDC.

Next is the Stators ability to withstand the voltage (12 versus 48) and I think that wouldnt be any problem.

Next is the Stators ability to withstand the current youre going to pull out of the 48 volt alternator. At the higher 48 volts youre likely NOT going to pull the current (like 60 amps) that you were at 12 volts and its my best "guess" the Stator at 48 volts can supply the necessary charging current (but that depends on the load so we cant really say for sure) so the I Squared R heat dissipation wont be much if any more then when operated at 12 volts (Provided of course youre running at lower amps at 48 volts then when used at 12).

SO ITS MY OPINION A 12 VOLT ALTERNATOR YES CAN BE MODIFIED FOR 48 VOLT OPERATION. HOWEVER the heat dissipation has to be dealt with, so I doubt you can pump the same current as it does at 12 volts as if youre configured for 48 volts.

12 Volts at 60 amps means the Stator must dissipate 720 watts so at 48 volts thats 15 amps for 720 watts. The heat generated in the Stator is I Squared R and regardless if youre running at 12 or 24 or 48 volts I doubt it can dissipate a lot more heat, so at 48 volts I figure you cant still deliver 60 amps like it does at 12 volts (maybe 15 amps though)

Bob M (Mechanical Engineer understands heat dissipation better then me) and Janicholson am I wrong????

John T

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George Marsh

06-03-2013 16:50:43
50.104.198.127



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 Re: 48v delco alternator? in reply to John T, 06-03-2013 16:23:12  
JohnT,
You may call the rotating part of any motor the rotor. I was always taught the moving part of any electromagnetic device is called the armature. The stationary part the stator. I really don't care what we call it. I think we both know that I was referring to the moving part of the alternator.

I really want to know if there is a 48 volt delco regulator or how to make a voltage regulator to charge four 12 volt batteries in series. That will require a voltage from the alternator to be about 56-58 volts. Actually a mutual friend of ours called me and wants to build one. He claims he can make a 12 v delco put out 24 volts. I told him we could use 2 delco in series and isolate the ground of one of the alternators, but he only wants to use one delco.


Found this defination for armature:

In electrical engineering, an armature generally refers to one of the two principal electrical components of an electromechanical machine generally in a motor or generator but it may also mean the pole piece of a permanent magnet or electromagnet, or the moving iron part of a solenoid or relay.

ROTOR/ARMATURE :)

George

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John T

06-03-2013 18:42:43
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 Re: 48v delco alternator? in reply to George Marsh, 06-03-2013 16:50:43  
No problem, people are free to call the rotor a widget far as Im concerned lol. When talking ALTERNATORS I refer to the devices as the Rotor and Stator, and when talking GENERATORS I refer to the devices and the Armature and Fields, its just how I was taught and the commonly understood terminology used in the trade by engineers and technicians.

Okay you say NO but I still say YES (regardless what the devices are called) its indeed possible to make a 12 volt alternator charge 48 volts.

Thats my story n Ima stickin to it

Take care George, fun chat, best wishes n God Bless

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George Marsh

06-03-2013 19:41:26
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 Re: 48v delco alternator? in reply to John T, 06-03-2013 18:42:43  
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search Rotor (lower left) and stator (upper right) of an electric motor Rotor from Hoover Dam generatorThe rotor is the non-stationary part of a rotary electric motor, electric generator or alternator, which rotates because the wires and magnetic field of the motor are arranged so that a torque is developed about the rotor's axis. In some designs, the rotor can act to serve as the motor's armature, across which the input voltage is supplied.

A rotor can act to serve as the motor's armature. Guess you can see how I got confused.

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John T

06-04-2013 04:03:35
216.249.76.176



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 Re: 48v delco alternator? in reply to George Marsh, 06-03-2013 19:41:26  
No problem George, not to worry, youre doin fine, hope you get your charging system all figured out...

As always, fun sparky chattin with ya

John T



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36 coupe

06-03-2013 17:56:24
66.186.169.139



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 Re: 48v delco alternator? in reply to George Marsh, 06-03-2013 16:50:43  
George, you are trying to do things I did 35 years ago.By disconnecting the battery load from the alternator and applying 12 volts to the rotor you got 100 volts DC easy.You could run skil saws and drills.Most saws and drills do not have DC rated switches.I sold a booklet called Alternator Secrets for many years for 3 bucks that explained how to do it.I built a solid state regulator for my rig because the 12 volt battery had to be recharged.48 volts would be no problem.Been there done that.DC is hard on switches because of a long arc when switched off.

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John T

06-03-2013 18:47:16
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 Re: 48v delco alternator? in reply to 36 coupe, 06-03-2013 17:56:24  
Despite those who say NO, I still say YES its possible to do that, and I just remembered at one time I had a device (maybe from JC Whitney???) where you took a car alternator and wired it to ths black box and it could be used to power even 120 volt (say perhaps a Universal AC/DC Motor) let alone 48 volt devices........

I still vote YES its possible

John T



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36 coupe

06-04-2013 02:40:47
66.186.169.139



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 Re: 48v delco alternator? in reply to John T, 06-03-2013 18:47:16  
I have the booklet that describes the regulators.The devise you had contained a double pole double throw switch and an ac outlet.I have one under the bench.My 13v regulator had fewer parts.Simple to make.A heat sink, a power transistor and 6 other parts made a regulator.I used a 5hp briggs to spin the alternator.It was a heavy rig because you needed a 12 battery to supply rotor voltage.When the battery got low you threw the switch to charge.People are so used to mooching stuff for free they wont buy books now.Lindsay had booklets on running 3 phase motors on single phase power.Lead acid batteries,Making welders.I built a DC converter for my Lincoln 225 using information from the welder booklet.The Lejay manual is a good reference book even though it is dated.I bought a Lejay manual in the 50s.The Lejay Co sold aircraft generators and welders made from them.When Lindsay did a reprint I sold copies of it.I kept the last new copy I had.My old copy was well worn.To those who say it cant be done Ive all ready done it.There is a co making welders with alternators now.

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George Marsh

06-04-2013 05:33:26
50.104.198.127



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 Re: 48v delco alternator? in reply to 36 coupe, 06-04-2013 02:40:47  
36 coupe,
I had a 1966 cuda. The voltage regulator was a single relay that would burn out in 10-12k. In the early 70's crysler used an external solid state reg which was a power transistor. I had to un-ground the one brush and send it to the collector of the NPN power transistor, emitter went to ground and the base voltage determined how hard the transistor conducted.

I'll google Lejay Co and see if there is something I can use.
Thanks,
George

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36 coupe

06-04-2013 17:13:43
66.186.169.139



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 Re: 48v delco alternator? in reply to George Marsh, 06-04-2013 05:33:26  
Lejay Co is long gone but still a good read if you can find the manual.I have the Chrysler relay in the shop and thers a transistor version out in the shed.I dont have the same interest I had 30 years ago.You could put new brushes in the early Chrysler alternator in a parking lot to get it charging again.



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