3 way switch

Don Anderson · Feb 27, 2013

My house is eight years old and I have a three way switch connected to an outlet that has never worked. Forgive me if I get the ground terminolgy wrong but when I connect my fluke meter to the bare wire at either switch with the switch on I have 121.6 volts from all three screws between the bare wire and the other three wires. At the outlet, I have the same voltage between the hot wires and the bare wire but only 62 volts between the white and black wires and the red carrier carrier wire. Both switches are lighted so I assume that I am getting just the voltage from whatever lights the switch. I would like to get this fixed but I guess I have put up with it for 8 years so it would not be a real big deal if I can not get it working correctly. Thanks for any help.

dr sportster · Feb 27, 2013

The discolored screw [black or copper ] is the point terminal. If you change out the 3 way sw make sure you first place the wire from the discolored screw on the same discolored screw on the new 3way sw. The other two don't matter where they go. Other than that advice I'm not really following you. What is the voltage to ground [bare wire or metal box ] from the black wire on the receptacle? How do you know it was controlled by the 3way switch if it was never working? Note ;when you have a red wire on a receptacle and black on the other screw same side you must break off the small tang separating the two right side terminals. With ground down right side is hot left is neutral.
All the grounds should be on green screw terminals at the device and nothing else.

D beatty · Feb 27, 2013

Not tring to get smart with you but have you ever pulled the outlet to see if its hooked up or checked to see if there is power to outlet but not out of outlet posable bad outlet?

Cliff(VA) · Feb 27, 2013

3 way switches are not that difficult. I am enclosing a link to a video explaining how they work.

I think your assessment about the lighted switches is correct.

HTH

Cliff(VA)
3 Way switches explained

kevinsstuff · Feb 27, 2013

sometimes on outlets the electrician will separate the outlets so that the switch can be used for lets say a table lamp, and the other outlet can be wired always on . this is done by breaking the copper bars between the screws on the hot side on the outlet itself and each hot screw will have one hot wire. also beware that sometimes
the white wire is used as a hot wire as there is so many different ways to wire 3 way switches. so if u see black tape wraped around a white wire chances are thats its being used as a hot conductor

rabbit-1 · Feb 27, 2013

Be aware that not all three-way switches are not created equal - I once replaced a three-way, and it just wouldn't work. I was sure I had wired it correctly, just like take-out switch. Come to find out the new switch did not have the same terminals in the same palces.

Brian G. NY · Feb 27, 2013

Rabbit, you got that right. That "common" terminal is placed on the opposite side of where it was on some of the older (and not too old either) switches.
I ran into that at my S.I.L.s a few years back and at my B.I.L.s only a few weeks ago.
Once you've run into that, you know what to look for when the switch doesn't work like its supposed to.
BTW, I don't do a lot of them so I always have to look up the diagram before I start.

JMOR · Feb 27, 2013

" when I connect my fluke meter to the bare wire at either switch with the switch on I have 121.6 volts from all three screws between the bare wire and the other three wires." NOT right for 3 way switch. One of the 3 switch terminals should always be dead, regardless of switch position. High impedance digital meters are often fooled when making such measurements. A test lamp or analog meter or solenoid voltage tester (Wiggy) is better for this determination.

dr sportster · Feb 27, 2013

It would be very unusual for a 3way to control a receptacle.[except a bedroom with two doors ] It would be very unusual for a sp switch to control any receptacle that is not in a location where a lamp would be plugged in. If this receptacle in your post is in a hallway it is probably not switch controlled as it would be for a vacuum. If the red wire you are calling a carrier is in fact a traveler of the 3 way switches something is wired wrong .Yes not all point screws will be located the same between different manufacturers but if you follow my instruction below you will not have any problem just changing out a bad three way.Copper or black is point brass color are for traveler wires and can go either screw.
Since you have not added any info thats all I got.

JMOR · Feb 27, 2013

(quoted from post at 22:37:51 02/27/13) It would be very unusual for a 3way to control a receptacle.[except a bedroom with two doors ] It would be very unusual for a sp switch to control any receptacle that is not in a location where a lamp would be plugged in. If this receptacle in your post is in a hallway it is probably not switch controlled as it would be for a vacuum. If the red wire you are calling a carrier is in fact a traveler of the 3 way switches something is wired wrong .Yes not all point screws will be located the same between different manufacturers but if you follow my instruction below you will not have any problem just changing out a bad three way.Copper or black is point brass color are for traveler wires and can go either screw.
Since you have not added any info thats all I got.

eneralizing always gets one in trouble. My bedroom has one door & 4-way switches controlling the wall plugs at nite tables, either side of bed. One by the door, one on her side of bed, one on my side of bed. Front window has 3-way for table lamp in front of window. That one is split, one socket switched, one always hot. Great for Christmas tree!

dr sportster · Feb 27, 2013

You might have a newer home. My mind is thinking of typical 1960s wiring. But yes I agree -good post. The original poster never added any info .In a new home now your set-up would be quite common I think. Why lean way out of bed to a lamp switch when you can flick right next to the bed? [I think I have done that on a job]I really havent done any residential wiring for some time as I work as a high voltage splicer. Somewhere around here I have an electrical contractors license but no longer take NEC update courses as required if you are in business. Getting my license was a way to make me study the codebook.I have beat the subject of grounding to death and the requirment was 34 hours of classes every three years. There is not that much to talk about .
Doctors and pharmacists have less hours .

JMOR · Feb 27, 2013

(quoted from post at 23:10:35 02/27/13) You might have a newer home. My mind is thinking of typical 1960s wiring. But yes I agree -good post. The original poster never added any info .In a new home now your set-up would be quite common I think. Why lean way out of bed to a lamp switch when you can flick right next to the bed? [I think I have done that on a job]I really havent done any residential wiring for some time as I work as a high voltage splicer. Somewhere around here I have an electrical contractors license but no longer take NEC update courses as required if you are in business. Getting my license was a way to make me study the codebook.I have beat the subject of grounding to death and the requirment was 34 hours of classes every three years. There is not that much to talk about .
Doctors and pharmacists have less hours .

I have beat the subject of grounding to death and"...........I know the feeling!!! Peace.

Don Anderson · Feb 28, 2013

I did some more checking last night with a little gizmo call a "switch wizzard. I turned off the power to the circuit that powers the switches and the outlet, which is for a lamp at one of the front windows in the living room. With the three wires connected together at one switch I connected the three clips to the three wires at the other switch and checked to see which wire would be the carrier wire which should be connected to the black terminal on the leviton switch. I then switched the clips to other wires at the switch and it showed another wire would be the carrier so apparently when the house was wired eight years ago something is not wired correctly. Idea was that I could either come in the front door or the door from the garage into the living room and turn on a lamp to be able to see but it has never worked. Maybe I can make some long leads and use the ohm function on the meter to figure out which wire is which.

JMOR · Feb 28, 2013

(quoted from post at 09:54:06 02/28/13) I did some more checking last night with a little gizmo call a "switch wizzard. I turned off the power to the circuit that powers the switches and the outlet, which is for a lamp at one of the front windows in the living room. With the three wires connected together at one switch I connected the three clips to the three wires at the other switch and checked to see which wire would be the carrier wire which should be connected to the black terminal on the leviton switch. I then switched the clips to other wires at the switch and it showed another wire would be the carrier so apparently when the house was wired eight years ago something is not wired correctly. Idea was that I could either come in the front door or the door from the garage into the living room and turn on a lamp to be able to see but it has never worked. Maybe I can make some long leads and use the ohm function on the meter to figure out which wire is which.

witch wizzaed instructions that I saw on the net look OK for a switch box that has ONLY 3 wires in it, but yours probably has more, as evidenced by , " I then switched the clips to other wires at the switch and ". More than 3?

There are several variations in connections that accomplish the same end result. Take a look:
https://www.google.com/search?q=3+w...DoBg&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=847&bih=460

dr sportster · Feb 28, 2013

Sometimes when an numnut helper takes apart a three way set up in an old building without noting the point wire you can ring it out by leaving that circuit off and using an extension cord to "hot up" each wire individually and see where power is coming in at the other box.Then a few color marking tapes to learn how to put it all back together working right.

Don Anderson · Mar 1, 2013

That sounds like that might work for me. Thanks for the idea.

Don Anderson · Mar 1, 2013

When I said I switched the clips to other wires I meant that I switched the three clips to the wires in a different order. There are only three wires connected to the switch plus the bare wire. sorry about the confusion.

3 way switch

Don Anderson

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