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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: Jib cranes

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02-21-2013 19:07:42

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yes i have one in my shop, i knew i would want one when i was building my shop and i put up a 40 by 45 by 16 tall clear span building. i put up a 1 ton jib that had 16 foot travel, starting out it was enough but soon was finding out that i sized up in tractors it was not enough. when i bured my base for the jib crane i dug a 4'x 4'x 5' deep hole and put the end of the up-right in and fill with cement and i still bent it a few years later at the bottom thust bearing. right now i am in process of putting a 6 ton brige crane in with 2-3 ton elec hoist. if you need help sizing this you can go to a steel supplyer to get your beams sized as they can tell you what you need for the size you want. you also might want to check on line as if you are having to buy all the steel it might not be much more to buy it.

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Billy NY

02-22-2013 05:05:42

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 Re: Jib cranes in reply to urbancase, 02-21-2013 19:07:42  
Unless a licensed professional engineer, checked the design, provided the calculations, details and specifications, I would question every bit of what a steel supplier says. For anyone considering the design and construction of an overhead lifting device, it has to be engineered. I realize that AISC and similar reference material may provide load tables and beam sizes, but there is missing information, which cannot be arbitrarily decided based on looks or opinion, footings, piers, columns, rigging, safety margin, all have to be designed, coordinated, checked out etc. to insure that it will safely handle the loading imposed on it, and will in fact have a safety factor.

One of the reasons I think its just a necessity is that years later, someone else may have access to what a person has previously built and will not have any details on it safe working limits, a device like this after being properly designed should also be labled stating the safe working capacity.

I say this having been in the commercial building construction industry, no steel supplier I have ever dealt with would size anything, its engineered on the building design documents, which are then used for bidding purposes, steel supplier will then after being awarded a contract, will detail shop drawings for the steel they will provide, and those shop drawings have to be approved, approved as note by the engineer of record, whom will check those drawings against the structural drawings he provided for the job.

Its's like residential housing, most carpenters or framers have a working knowledge of materials and can say what you will need say for example a roof framing job, 2x..... so many inches on center, etc. and it will work, you just can't do that with steel, given the loading and forces at work and one should never really do that in general, any structure or lifting device needs to be engineered to be safe, which means its designed for a specific purpose, with parameters of use and load limits, all components included, not just a beam that was sized as per what someone says will work, unless that person did or had someone do the necessary engineering, which to be honest, would not take long for an experienced engineer to provide.

Only reason I post this is to make sure someone does not get it in their head that steel suppliers are designers, they are not, and its highly likely no information would be typically provided given the liability it presents to the supplier, unless they have design capability and have errors and omissions insurance.

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02-22-2013 08:11:19

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 Re: Jib cranes in reply to Billy NY, 02-22-2013 05:05:42  
I can think of several times over the years being in line at the local welding supply, when a week end warrior at the front of the line would ask a question about how to build something. The guy behind the counter would go into a detailed explanation, that in my opinion should be run by an engineer! I would just shake my head and chuckle to myself!

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Stick welding

02-22-2013 23:28:47

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 Re: Jib cranes in reply to Puddles, 02-22-2013 08:11:19  
A few month's ago we had 2 separate people come in with no welding experience at all wanting to build their own airplanes. One guy wanted to use TIG and the other guy said O/A can be used as long as it's inspected. Building an aircraft you want to fly and even a 2 seater is not a good idea for your first welding project. Probably not a good idea for 100th welding project. LoL

On the other end of the scale, a woman I worked with(who was clueless but tried to fake it) told me I shouldn't recommend what welding rods a customer should use on a boiler. Actually, it wasn't a boiler but a wood heater he wanted to line with a stainless steel bottom. I told him 309 is used to join stainless to carbon steel. I told the woman I wouldn't recommend rods for a vessel or something critical cause that's up to the engineer but considering it's a welding supply, I figure that's why people go there for welding advice.

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02-22-2013 03:48:37

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 Re: Jib cranes in reply to urbancase, 02-21-2013 19:07:42  
urbancase I would love to see pictures of the fabrication of your new bridge crane! 8)
I would be shocked to see a steel supplier give engineering advice. Can you imagine the liabilities? When I built my 24-feet span x 40-feet travel bridge crane I had the head of my companies engineering department help me with beam sizes, he is licensed in 3-states. At the time I had known him for over 20-years. I would e-mail him CAD drawings, he would make corrections, and e-mail them back to me. I never had the nerve to ask him to stamp a drawing. Getting an engineer to stamp a drawing is like pulling teeth! :lol:

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