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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking

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circus

01-25-2013 12:46:40
72.251.63.247



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Ten years ago I found diodes for my 40 year old 10/50 amp Schumaker at a alt/starter repair shop. $2 each.




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old

01-25-2013 13:11:08
209.86.226.58



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to circus, 01-25-2013 12:46:40  
I know I could probably take the numbers off the ones in the charger and match them to something at radio shack that would work but prefer to get what the company used so as to maybe be closer to correct. Odd how one charger has them shorted and the other has them open



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George Marsh

01-25-2013 14:17:11
50.104.244.212



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to old, 01-25-2013 13:11:08  
Old, is it possible to rob some diodes out of an old alternator? I remember the old chrysler alternators, there were 6 diodes pressed in. The way I look at it, you could double up and use two diodes side by side, parallel, and it won't hurt a thing. My mig welder came with 4 diodes, 2 sets in parallel. When one side burnt out two diodes, I replaced them with 3 diodes in parallel.

I've never spent money on diodes. Have a box full of used ones.

George

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Cliff(VA)

01-28-2013 06:09:46
70.89.233.37



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to George Marsh, 01-25-2013 14:17:11  
George,

Diodes do NOT work well in parellel. One will carry all the current and the other will carry none.

Cliff(VA) EE



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JMOR

01-28-2013 06:26:21
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to Cliff(VA), 01-28-2013 06:09:46  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeCliff, that depends on how the paralleled diodes are matched. Chip makers even sell matched diodes exactly for this purpose. I have successfully paralleled as many as 5 matched diodes, all sharing current within 10%. Found often it welders. Even if you don't buy matched sets, simple selection will get you close enough for home projects. Their very nature makes them want to share, i.e., as current goes up in one, so does its voltage drop (particularly in the intrinsic materials), so that results in the other diode (which had the higher initial junction drop) taking on more current.......not as perfect as matched sets, but still sharing. If you parallel a 1 amp diode with a 100 amp diode, they will not share very well!

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Cliff(VA)

01-28-2013 09:30:28
70.89.233.37



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to JMOR, 01-28-2013 06:26:21  
JMOR,

You and I have had this argument before. And I agree that matched diodes will share current to a degree.

But most on this board do not know how to match diodes or even that they need to be matched. It can make for some explosive fun.

Unless you know what you are doing, either buy matched diodes or don't parellel them.

Cliff(VA)



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JMOR

01-28-2013 10:36:43
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to Cliff(VA), 01-28-2013 09:30:28  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see "Unless you know what you are doing..." very important to nearly any undertaking! :wink:



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old

01-25-2013 14:36:26
209.86.226.32



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to George Marsh, 01-25-2013 14:17:11  
I might could do that if I had them laying around but I do not. Thing the gets me is the fact it appears that these chargers use a half wave rectifier system instead of a full wave



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George Marsh

01-25-2013 17:03:13
50.104.244.212



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to old, 01-25-2013 14:36:26  
Old, All the chargers I've seen use only 2 diodes and a transformer that has a center tap. The output, if seen on an oscilliscope, are postiive 1/2 waves. It is still considered a full wave power supply, because there are 120 + waves per second.

Old go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

About half way down is what I copied below. I wasn't able to copy the diagrams. As stated below, there are two ways to make full wave power supplies. The second one is what chargers use, 2 diodes and transformer with center tap.

Full-wave rectification

A full-wave rectifier converts the whole of the input waveform to one of constant polarity (positive or negative) at its output. Full-wave rectification converts both polarities of the input waveform to DC (direct current), and yields a higher mean output voltage. Two diodes and a center tapped transformer, or four diodes in a bridge configuration and any AC source (including a transformer without center tap), are needed.[2] Single semiconductor diodes, double diodes with common cathode or common anode, and four-diode bridges, are manufactured as single components.

Graetz bridge rectifier: a full-wave rectifier using 4 diodes.For single-phase AC, if the transformer is center-tapped, then two diodes back-to-back (cathode-to-cathode or anode-to-anode, depending upon output polarity required) can form a full-wave rectifier. Twice as many turns are required on the transformer secondary to obtain the same output voltage than for a bridge rectifier, but the power rating is unchanged.

Full-wave rectifier using a center tap transformer and 2 diodes.

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old

01-25-2013 17:39:52
209.86.226.60



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to George Marsh, 01-25-2013 17:03:13  
Geo, yes I do understand a good bit about electronics I have forgotten a good bit more then many people ever did learn about electronics. But then I was a Navy E.T. and did computer repair many years ago. I learned to hate electronics over the year. Still remember an odd thing happening when I was playing with a short wave radio and heard a broadcast of JFK getting shoot but what makes it odd is that it was years after the fact but it seemed to be one from the day it happened.

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George Marsh

01-26-2013 04:29:38
50.104.244.212



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to old, 01-25-2013 17:39:52  
Old,
Chargers aren't that difficult to fix. You shouldn't have that much difficulty. Don't use the boost to start a car and you should be good. If you live close, I would fix it for you.
George



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old

01-26-2013 08:55:43
209.86.226.40



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to George Marsh, 01-26-2013 04:29:38  
Do not know about that boost thing since I use it from time to time and never had any problems with doing so. I have 3 of these chargers. As for you living close I am in Missouri the Lake of the Ozarks where are you??



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George Marsh

01-26-2013 15:18:58
50.104.244.212



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to old, 01-26-2013 08:55:43  
Too far, Terre Haute, In



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old

01-26-2013 15:39:13
209.86.226.40



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to George Marsh, 01-26-2013 15:18:58  
I know where that is at. Had a break down back in July of 1980 when the IH pick up I was towing behind my 68 Dodge charger lost a rear wheel. I did go out and look at a couple dodge alternators I have but the diodes in them look way different so those do not look like they would work. Also stopped at O'Reilly's and looked in the book for diodes and all that I found that might be close where special order things

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George Marsh

01-27-2013 06:08:07
50.104.244.212



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to old, 01-26-2013 15:39:13  
Old,
Can you post a pic of the inside of your charger? I'll check what I have in my box of used diodes. I think the last time I replaced diodes in the manual charger I purchased 44 years ago, I used two diodes in a square metal package. Just have to get the right combo. Have to scratch my head and figure out if connect the two out wires from the transformer to cathodes or anodes.
George



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old

01-27-2013 09:40:30
209.86.226.57



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to George Marsh, 01-27-2013 06:08:07  
The diode that cam out is a EDAL F7C3 9417 The solder on part is the wide end of the V and the bolt on heat sink part is the + end. Hope that explains it correctly and in a way you understand. Been to many years since I did much in Electronics to remember which end is which as in the correct terms. By the way it is about as big around as a persons index finger. Below the big part is an area for a wrench and a 17MM wrench is just small enough not to fit

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JMOR

01-27-2013 20:20:28
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to old, 01-27-2013 09:40:30  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeDid you look at the link that I posted????????!!!



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old

01-27-2013 20:43:13
209.86.226.32



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 Re: Schumaker Battery chargers got around to looking in reply to JMOR, 01-27-2013 20:20:28  
Yes and I think I also book marked it but right now $12 for each is a bit to much for me LOL



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