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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: Compressor electrical question

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George Marsh

01-05-2013 14:33:51
50.104.202.156



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Stephen, Don't think this will work. There are no shorts, it just won't work. Going to throw down a challenge to all the experts to post a pic of their wiring diagram first. After all else fails and the experts have given up, I'll post a pic of how to wire to safely, providing all parts of your contactor are good.
George




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Stephen Newell

01-05-2013 16:09:24
63.25.63.65



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to George Marsh, 01-05-2013 14:33:51  
Could you explain what you mean by being no shorts?



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George Marsh

01-05-2013 18:48:46
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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to Stephen Newell, 01-05-2013 16:09:24  
Stephen, The defination of a short is when you wire something sending power to ground. Your circuit wouldn't work because you had A1 going to terminal 98, which is a normally open switch. A1 would have never seen power from the pressure switch.

You shouldn't have any problems with DH's diagram. Perhaps the only problem you are going to get is from the code people telling you it shouldn't be done that way. Wait and see.
George

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buickanddeere

01-07-2013 05:37:37
184.151.61.231



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to George Marsh, 01-05-2013 18:48:46  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

The definition of a short circuit is not limited to just a connection to ground.



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Stephen Newell

01-06-2013 06:01:03
63.25.75.126



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to George Marsh, 01-05-2013 18:48:46  
I see that now. I thought over the course of working on this thing I had probed it every which way with an ohm meter. There is nothing between 97 and 98.

I think the code people have moved on. I don't see a problem interrupting L2 at the pressure switch also if that is what you mean. Anyway this is Texas and just about any electrical work goes here. I recently remodeled a house where the homeowner hired an electrician to run a wire for a new kitchen stove some years before. While I was there one leg of the wire went dead and they had me look at it. I found the guy had pulled an aluminum wire tighter than a banjo string through the attic and down in the wall and wired it without a breaker directly to the electric meter. Then someone later on had the bright idea of using wood shavings for insulation in the attic and the wire was buried in it.

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DH in Carolina

01-05-2013 15:41:45
173.212.6.174



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to George Marsh, 01-05-2013 14:33:51  

Here's the simple way to wire the contactor. you can't use the overload block because it is for three phase and you only have single phase power. Solid state overload must see current on all three legs or it will trip out. This will work if you have internal motor overload protection. If you don't have motor protection get a single phase conbination starter with overload protection. If you ever worked on industrial equipment you will find most motors don't have internal overload protection.

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Stephen Newell

01-05-2013 16:41:28
63.25.63.65



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to DH in Carolina, 01-05-2013 15:41:45  
Thankyou for the sketch. I now finally have given up on the overload protection and have taken it off for good. Overload protection is shown in the owners manual and also in different sketches I found online. Not having a complete understanding of this magnetic switch I kept fealing like if it was there it was suppose to be there. The motor that I have on the compressor has its own overload protection.

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George Marsh

01-05-2013 15:50:55
50.104.202.156



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to DH in Carolina, 01-05-2013 15:41:45  
DH, This will work providing the contacts for L1 and L3 are good and there is a path through the current sensor. I think, in a previous post Stephen said L1 was bad. Some code people may want you to use both poles on the pressure switch. I don't see an issue with your diagram.

George



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Stephen Newell

01-05-2013 16:03:52
63.25.63.65



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to George Marsh, 01-05-2013 15:50:55  
There seems to be something going on with L1. I finally got it to work but its a lot harder to work than the other two manually. Anyway I get the picture and can use what ever two contacts that do work.



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George Marsh

01-05-2013 16:39:04
50.104.202.156



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to Stephen Newell, 01-05-2013 16:03:52  
Stephen, There may be an issue with the current sensor too. If there is, there are 3 screws, #2,#4,#6 (T1, T2, T3). If you loosen them, you may be able to remove the bottom half, current sensors.

I'm sure the code people will sound off and tell you not remove it. My reply is there hasn't been any current sensors when you were using the pressure switch and you didn't get killed or burn up the motor. There aren't any current sensors on other air compressors either. There are only factory internal motor protectors.

Let us know if it works. There is no reason why it shouldn't, except for a bad contactor.
George

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Stephen Newell

01-05-2013 16:59:39
63.25.63.65



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to George Marsh, 01-05-2013 16:39:04  
I thought the current sensor was part of the lower unit with the overload protection. There is some device that you adjust the amperage you want.



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George Marsh

01-05-2013 19:04:20
50.104.202.156



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to Stephen Newell, 01-05-2013 16:59:39  
Stephen, you are right, the bottom half is the current sensor. It was designed for 3 phase, current running through L1, L2 and L3. DH thinks it may not work on single phase. He gave you the simple way to install it. I can show you how you can try to use the current sensor, but only after the experts show you how to wire it.

Wire it the way DH showed and see if that part of your contactor works. It will be simple to add in the sensor circuit.

Keep in mind there was no current sensor when you had the pressure switch installed. Never seen a small air compressor wired with a current sensor, so what's the big deal if you leave it out? Your 3 phase contactor was an after market add on.

George

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Stephen Newell

01-05-2013 20:54:53
63.25.166.245



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 Re: Compressor electrical question in reply to George Marsh, 01-05-2013 19:04:20  
All of this is more than getting the compressor running. I want to understand it and learn from it too. I can forsee having to contend with another magnetic starter in the future. I appreciate everything everybody has done for me especially you running the gauntlet with something more controversial. It wasn't what I was needing at the time but if I had the parts I might have broken one leg temporarily to use the compressor in an emergency. I had to order a replacement pressure switch so I'm not going to be doing any permanent wiring until the end of the comming week.

One thing I will never understand is why they don't just make a heavier duty pressure switch.

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